Regarding Illinois - Excuses will be Made
Illinois apologists on internet claim their draw was "unfair".
Although both teams were playing the game at a high level, the college basketball world couldn’t help but be frustrated.
Sel. committee chair Mitch Barnhart said the cmte leaned more on results-based metrics to select and leaned more on predictive metrics to seed. This was not exclusively true. Loyola was the No. 9 team in KenPom and received a No. 8 seed, and we’re seeing why seeding matters.
— Matt Norlander (@MattNorlander) March 21, 2021
Srsly.
They can whine all they want, but they lost - same as the big ten regular season title. No amount of bitching will change either result.
100%, and to that end at some point you're going to have to beat some really good teams to win your regional. Whether Illinois lost this weekend to an 8 seed Loyola, or next weekend to a 3 seed Loyola still ultimately results in a loss.
I know there is some posturing related to how far your team advances, but the ultimate premise is that Illinois was not good enough to win their region. The same will apply to our matchup with LSU tomorrow. The conversation around when the matchups occur basically just boils down to hubris.
March 21st, 2021 at 10:05 PM ^
Who cares where they were seeded. You have to win them all. And when you're a 1 seed, you're expected to.
March 21st, 2021 at 11:21 PM ^
Seeding matters for so many reasons.
In theory, you want the 16 best teams to make it to the Sweet 16.
A high seed should earn the right not to have to play tough teams. It appears that what the NCAA tournament is revealing is that the B1G was way overrated and should not have been seeded this well and maybe there are a few other conferences that should have gotten a few of our spots.
More importantly, for teams like Loyola Chicago, they end up having to play a really tough team in the 2nd round because they weren't properly seeded.
I guess the NCAA tried to improve their process with the NET, but another piece that I would add is to require all teams in the tourney have a 0.500 record in their league. This year that leaves out Maryland and MSU (not to mention their coaches have issues). These spots should have gone to more deserving teams like 16-6 Wichita State or 5th in the SEC Ole Miss.
How would the committee know ORU was a tough team though
Ramblers--wild gamblers. That's all in the past.
+1 for the Steely Dan reference
"I want a name when I lose."
--Overheard on the Illinois bench today
The Illini are quite deacon blue right now.
They miss the last time there was a "normal" NCAA tournament... affectionately called Hey Nineteen.
March 21st, 2021 at 11:06 PM ^
They'll be drinking scotch whiskey all night long
Humble brag. Donald Fagen has been to my house numerous times for parties!! These parties were for my kids..... but still.
I say this in all seriousness--Fagen is a fucking genius.
which songs did Donald play during his set at the party?
Has anyone on the blog done a ranking of Big Ten basketball coaches by whine-ishness?
A few warrant automatic consideration for the top whiners, but ranking feels like a task that needs doing.
It's quite clear Illinois is #1. Izzo and MSU are a far #2.
Don't forget about Turdgeon
#2 presented by rocket mortgage.
#2 presented by rocket mortgage.
MSU will always be a #2 in my heart. A big, steaming, #2.
I don't know. "Weird guys" take them a really long way in this competition.
March 22nd, 2021 at 10:18 AM ^
Izzo will always be # 1 IMO. Little man rape enabling excuse making troll that he is.
Coach Underwood isn't too happy with your comment
There's a face only a train could love.
Oh, and one has. On multiple occasions.
Underwood doesn’t have any friends!
Maybe their coach can beg for a share of the National Championship too. LoLLLL
Their AD can pen an open letter claiming they were the champions of Illinois.
Except they were beaten by Loyola of Chicago, Illinois.
But that fact may not stop the Ill AD.
That was the joke.
Nothing goes over my head. My reflexes are so fast that I will catch it.
Downstate Illinois. Of course, they didn't play SIU or NIU or Illinois State.
If your teams wins, you advance and play on. You play on until you are the last team standing; so what's wrong with that concept?
Illinois hasn't made the tourney in a while. They're not super familiar with how it works. Cut them some slack /s
Hey, NJ, I'm not sure of your feelings about our local Big Ten school but—no /s—perhaps Illini* can get some pointers from Rutgers.
* Illinigh to ridiculous.
Call the Waaah-mbulance. They got outplayed all game, didn't make any adjustments and now have their lame-ass excuse for how a team with 2 All-Americans went out in round 2.
The Illinois Whining Illini.
JFC. I've had to say this so many times here and on the CBB subreddit. Loyola Chicago was underseeded, but not by more than a single seed line.
Loyola Chicago's expected S-curve ranking was #25. They were given an S-curve position of #30. The difference between those S-curve positions is a single seed line.
So what is the argument here? That the committee should give each team their actual expected S-curve position? No, the committee has to consider the entire resume of the teams it has to seed. Metrics should not, alone, gift a team a higher seed, especially when the average metric ranking shows that a team is fairly accurately seeded.
The complain stem from Loyola is being underseeded because they were high on metric rankings like KenPom, Bart Torvik, NET, RPI. 3 of them had them at top 10 while RPI had them at 18. Loyola had zero business being a 8th seed and probably should've been a 3-4 seed at worst.
It doesn't matter because the committee didn't feel that way and seeded them at 8th.
Loyola Chicago is not that underseeded. Underseeded? Yes, without a doubt. LUC is NOT a “3/4 seed at worst” as you claim.
Averaging out all of Loyola Chicago's rankings in the useful advanced metric systems gives an average ranking of 24 (#21 in BPI, #29 in KPI, #10 in NET, #9 in Kenpom, #37 in Sagarin, #40 in Strength of Record, #13 in Torvik, #34 in Wins above Bubble).
Using expected S-curve seeding and S-curve-difference, Loyola Chicago has an expected S-curve seeding of 25, a 7-seed. Their actual S-curve seeding is 30, an 8-seed.
So the difference isn't that absurd. Just pointing to a couple of metric systems that happen to have Loyola Chicago ranked in the top-10, and then saying they should be seeded multiple seed-lines higher, is not a winning argument. Seeding is not solely based on a few advanced metric rankings. The entire resume a team has put together is what is taken into consideration when seeding teams. Loyola Chicago’s resume, relative to some other programs in the 7/8/9-seed territory, is pretty weak.
just take a quick look at how the committee may have compared Loyola Chicago to the team ranked as the 25th S-curve-seed: Oregon.
Oregon's rankings in all the above metric systems give them an average ranking of 30. Again, using expected seeding and S-difference, Oregon actually receives an expected S-curve seeding of 31 (an 8-seed) and their actual S-curve seeding of 25 (a 7-seed). What could the committee have used as the basis to flip these two teams? I posit that they looked at the team's records against Quad 1/2 opponents.
Loyola Chicago vs. Quad 1/2 opponents: 6-4. They also played 12(!) Quad 4 opponents.
Oregon vs. Quad 1/2 opponents: 9-4
Now, it is somewhat difficult to directly compare these records with the uneven number of Q1/2 opportunities, but Oregon only had three more Q1/2 opportunities and won all three. I think it is fair to slightly favor Oregon in this scenario.
The totality of Loyola Chicago's resume does not deserve anything above a 6-seed IMO.
You say that but the result of the 2nd round games said otherwise.
The draw was unfair to both teams, but you have to beat who's in front of you.
Hey Illini apologists just do what Mitch said....
No kidding, Mitch was probably high as a kite and even he got it.
Regardless of what seed we (LUC) were supposed to be they're still a 1 and we kicked their asses.
This guy gets it.
Congrats. My buddy is finishing up his counseling degree at Loyola and was a President's Medallion recipient this past year. Also big UM fan so this W was doubly sweet for him/me.
Yes, you did and for nearly all 40 minutes. Congrats!
Well we know Brian was on record saying Loyola on the 8 line would be a difficult seed to play in round 2. But Illinois had SO many physical advantages in this game, they are the last team to be able to whine about this,
March 22nd, 2021 at 12:07 AM ^
Brian also talked up UConn an abnormal amount leading up to the Tournament. As a result, I took them to face Michigan in the Regional Final. I guess nobody’s perfect.