Question for the Denard @ Slot Club
I'm not sure where Denard is best suited, he's a great ahtlete that hasn't had a full offseason to learn about Mich football and where he fits, but to those that think he could be Percy Harvin or that he is Michael Vick waiting to explode, has anybody noticed he hasn't really showed great moves or that hidden ability to sense the pressure and escape it. To me Tate has much better moves. Denard has ran the ball well, but other than the Western TD he has mostly run pretty hard in a straight line. He's pretty effective, but it seems that every time he has had a chance to avoid the rush or bounce it outside nothing has happened. Maybe the coaches have told him not to get fancy, not sure, but I would have expected more "wow" type plays from him. Like the kid a lot, no idea where he is best suited, just an observation. Anybody agree or do you think I'm nuts?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:13 AM ^
Not to mention his ball security. Maybe he'll improve next year but right now Tate is definitely better at escaping the pressure. Plus, defenses respect Tate's arm. Denard runs it up the middle 80% of the time. Come 2010, if DG outs Denard from the backup position, then they should definitely try him at slot. Right now he's the backup and that's should be where he stays.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:31 AM ^
Plus, defenses respect Tate's arm.
Which is why Denard doesn't have the opportunity to do what Tate does. That and the fact that we do run up the middle 80% of the time. Tough to compare the two's "moves." In the open field, I'm willing to bet Denard is much more elusive.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:24 AM ^
I'm a still amazed by the jump cut that Denard made, at full speed, during the last TD drive at Iowa. Like Kirk said "Pressing L1 on the controller"
November 11th, 2009 at 5:06 PM ^
Giving Denard the start for one of the next two games? That's kind of tough when you're 5-5. To reverse his fortune he needs to have a win while being the man behind center. Lately that has only happened when Tate is pulled for a significant injury or if he plays awful. He needs a start against a tough opponent and that doesn't look likely any time soon.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:27 AM ^
I would tend to agree with you but I think Tate Forcier is a pretty tough basis for comparison for him. Unless there's any indication that he could really be a good enough defensive back or slot receiver to start, I would hate to see one of the most talented athletes on the team languish for three years in the depth chart. I would love to see Michigan get a little adventurous and try some crazy stuff with Denard Robinson... line him up at receiver with Forcier at QB and send him in motion into the backfield prior to the snap or something. Give him a couple tosses as a slot, or a couple carries as a running back. Or maybe a receiver option pass play, since he can (sort of) throw. He clearly isn't going to get too many meaningful snaps at quarterback as long as Forcier's around and healthy -- probably more so next year, if Gardner doesn't redshirt -- so why not use him all over the place on offense? He'd be the defense's focal point on every single play he came in for, so perhaps Michigan could use him as a decoy to draw double coverage, too.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:38 AM ^
wish I could give you more!
November 11th, 2009 at 9:53 AM ^
i somewhat disagree, if you look at some of his runs, he actually does have some pretty good moves, and juked a couple people out of their cleats...but i think there are 2 problems, he is very easy to bring down once you get a hand on him (along with ball security), and that since he has such a small threat to pass, the defense will have extra defenders to support the run. denard may be able to juke 1 person, but he cant get away from 3
November 11th, 2009 at 10:07 AM ^
I disagree about his juking ability. Denard is so fast his juking ability seems effortless. Watch this clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx1VT9yWIxY#t=9m12s
He makes that cut at full speed. If that were Tate it would have been slower and more exaggerated.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:43 PM ^
Ahh... the happy memories...
November 11th, 2009 at 10:33 AM ^
He hasn't been able really to show what he can do in the open field, like a Percy Harvin, so I can't really say he would or would not be able to execute any moves in the open. But I would think with his speed he wouldn't need to make people miss as much like Tate.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:38 AM ^
Does anyone else thing that, if he moves, it will probably be to DB?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:38 AM ^
I have thought DB might be a great place to try Dennard if QB does not work out. However, before that will happen, you need to have a backup for Tate. No disrespect toward Sheridan but Denard, at the moment, does provide a backup that the defense has to take somewhat seriously, particularly if he completes a few passes.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:38 AM ^
I'm guessing he has probably been coached to find a seam and hit it. When there are 8 or 9 guys in the box and the defense knows he's going to run the ball, there's not much time for dancing.
When he got in the open field against WMU and had space to work with, well...you saw what he could do.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:13 AM ^
It looks like he has been coached to hit the hole and go, maybe when the game slows down for him he will be able to let his ability go. Many of his runs are up the middle and he doesn't have a chance to show it, but he has had about 5-10 shots against legit D's not Eastern and the like that he looked like he might have had a chance to create something and didn't do it, I think it was the Iowa game where he had a big DE that was the last thing to stop him from going outside and he conceded the edge instead of blowing past the guy.
I will disagree with the other guy, I think he runs prety hard, I don't see him going down easy at all, I'm just sick of seeing him plunging forward into a mass of bodies though. Wanted to see that handoff last week work and get him on the edge.
November 11th, 2009 at 10:52 AM ^
Denard looks very jumpy out there to me. Some rare guys come in and the game doesn't seem too fast for them and they can just read and cut with authority. Denard just isn't there. He can make some things happen because he is fast and he has some moves. Remember also, that he is a true freshman and didn't enroll early.
My best case scenario is that he improves substantially in his passing over the spring and is a very capable backup for Tate with a package of plays for them together (that is larger than this years).
DG should redshirt to work on passing mechanics, learn the offense, and preserve his eligibility. Come 2011, I hope Tate is an awesome starter, DG gets some chances as the primary backup, and the coaches get Denard on the field somewhere (on offense).
I will say that it will be an interesting spring if DG enrolls early, because all of those three will be fighting to start at QB. Ah, I love how that sounds. How far we will have come from the legendary (and not in a good way) Sheridan-Threet battles of 2008!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:41 AM ^
IME, DG should not play next year and should get red shirted...I see no way that is not best for the long term health of the program...the only exception would be if he is head and shoulders (i.e. significantly) ahead of the others...
Redshirting him gives the program (in theory of course)QB stability through the 2014 season.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:34 AM ^
I would just be concerned about his ability to block. Most of the other positions on O have a number of blocking responsibilities. If he has always played QB - they would need a fair amount of time to get him up to speed on blocking (S, LBs if he plays slot, LB, DE, DTs if he is a running back, picking up blitzers, etc). His speed only works if he can do the other things required of the position so that everyone in the stadium doesn't know the ball is going his way when he enters the game.
I struggle to see him being a 30-40 play guy at slot or running back if he is spending two years playing QB. I see better chance that he can improve passing enough to be a legit threat to Tate's job.
Just an opinion.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:39 AM ^
I want so badly to see what Denard could do on a punt return or KO return. His blinding speed would set the Big House on fire. How 'bout on 11/21? What have we got to lose?
November 11th, 2009 at 1:41 PM ^
As our return game has shown the last 2 years, reliably fielding kicks and Holding Onto the Damn Ball are vastly underrated skills
November 11th, 2009 at 12:10 PM ^
i too wonder sometimes what that would be like, but i think only on KRs not punts, so he doesnt get absolutely creamed on a PR and gets to see some lanes as he kicks it into mach3 speed haha...with denard and stonum back there, the other team can pick their poison!
November 11th, 2009 at 11:42 AM ^
how effective Pat White was throwing the ball early in his career on, at a minimum, bubble screens, outs and so forth? I really don't remember and haven't researched the topic, and the reason that I ask is because I thought Denard was really going to excell as a down hill running type QB in this system. I don't know if there is "something else going on there" like Feagan and Cissioko stuff, but that would be complete speculation. It is true that Tate is the far superior option, he has in fact played very well about 70% of the time, I am just a little surprised because I saw big things for Robinson. Maybe there still will be, but I kind of get the feeling it would be apparent already if there was.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:04 PM ^
Pat White was a better QB as a redshirt freshman than Denard as a freshman. If I remember correctly, he had a completion percentage in the high fifties.
Also, Denard ran a Wing-T offense in high school. In other words, very little shotgun, no zone read option, etc. It's understandable that he would have a hard time grasping this offense instantly. Ideally, he would have redshirted this year, but we didn't have that luxury.
November 11th, 2009 at 12:16 PM ^
thanks for the info. Perhaps Denard can still adjust then. I know Iowa was allowing Michigan some ground in the final minutes, but there was just a stretch where it seemed like I was watching West Virginia-2007. I have a feeling that is more of where RR wants this thing to head. We have very little downfield passing game because frankly, I don't think Rodriguez aspires to. His offense seems to be built upon speed and repitition. The first Denard has in spades, I guess we'll see about the rest.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:54 PM ^
he should be used exactly like Percy Harvin was. true, we don't know much about his recieving abilities yet. if he has none (which i find unlikely), he'll become a tailback. otherwise, he's a combo tailback/slot/trick play specialist. there's also the chance that he could play a little corner??