We will cross that bridge when/if we get to it ... as for now it is just nice to have a good QB competition between two young kids that both have ability to fit the system.
Pure speculation: Would the loser of the Tate/Denard battle transfer?
Hopefully Denard would just move to a different position. Tate would be stupid not to consider transferring if it became apparent he would be seeing little time after the year ended and had other options.
Concentrate and ask again.
^this, i endorse 100%.
magic 8 ball, i will follow you to the ends of the earth and back. command me.
Better not tell you now.
okay, now I've seen everything.
that we actually get theme posters. Haiku and Magic 8 Ball...what a site!
What the shell are you talking about?
hahaha, even better
Don't forget about the limerick guy that showed up the other day.
will have nearly the points you have. Jeez
Both Robinson and Forcier came in knowing that there would be competition. Gardner in all likelihood will get a redshirt. I also don't think that either Forcier or Robinson will get the bench for their career behind one of the other. As RR has said multiple times - if you are talented enough to play, you will. Either Forcier will get the go and Robinson will be used for special packages, or Robinson will get the go and Forcier will be used for special packages. Gardner I don't think will matter because assuming Forcier and Robinson play for 3-4 years Gardner will come in, get a redshirt, then be a backup for 1-2 years and start for 2-3. And honestly if one transfers that means that the other one is really really really good - so I'm fine with that as well.
I wouldn't count on Devin Gardner redshirting. Call me crazy, but, I have a feeling he will play as true freshman, not because Tate or Denard aren't good, but, because Gardner is just too good to keep off the field.
Okay, you're crazy. Tate/Denard will undergo growing pains this year as true freshman. No matter which one (or both) end up with significant amount of snaps, why would we bench sophomores and go through more of the same growing pains next year with another true freshman?
For the same reason the Buckeyes benched a senior QB in favor of Pryor last season. He's just too talented to keep off the field.
boeckman was a 3 star kid who OSU put in because they basically had no one else. So the situations are a little different. You aren't going to bench Henne because Mallet comes in. On top of that Gardner is no better of a passer than Forcier and no better of a runner than Robinson. Gardner, in fact, of all three is probably the worst at throwing. It just isn't going to happen unless 1 already transfers or both get injured.
Boeckman's star rating means NOTHING in this conversation. He played well as a junior in '07 and took OSU to the MNC game. He was benched in '08 in favor of a very talented freshman in Terrelle Pryor. I believe that Devin Gradner is in the same mold as Pryor or Vince Young. It is very possible that Gardner earns playing time as a true freshman.
Boeckman had the experience and passing accuracy that Pryor lacked. Boeckman got a raw deal from Tressel.
I would say last year for OSU was a different situation. My biggest assumption is that either Tate or Denard (or both) end up being a good choice as qb. If both aren't productive this year, then I think trying another true freshman could happen.
With that said, I don't see how that will happen. Even if both have bad seasons, Tate/Denard will have the entire off season and I think that in 12 months one (or both) have the talent to end up as a better qb then a true freshman.
Potentially, because DG would have been the top WR in the state if he chose to play that position in college (images of Boeckman --> Pryor in the endzone vs. Texas going through my head...).
Gardner will probably redshirt to work on his mechanics and learn the offense. Remember, Freshman QBs are and should be a rarity.
That is, if you want to win games.
They both came to Michigan knowing that there would be another QB in the class, and even the loser of the battle is 1 injury away from seeing the field. If Denard is the loser of the battle, he'd much more likely be switched to a different position (or continue as a QB in an ISQD-style role) than transfer.
Once Sheridan wins the job and the Heisman this year (and another in his senior year)
I have always been a little worried about Tate tranfering. You just have to look to his brothers to see that it runs in the family. While I am not saying I think he will transfer and I know its unfair to group him with his brothers, but it has to raise a minor red flag.
Tate was raised to be a QB, that's been his entire life. If he's not "The Man" and seeing significant PT, I could see him transferring too. Let's hope it never comes to that.
Agreed. It especially becomes interesting when Gardner -- who is probably the prototypical RichRod QB -- gets some time in the system.
I can't see Gardner redshirting.
If DR clearly wins the battle, and with DG coming next year, I believe Tate would transfer. And not the other way around because I believe DR can be successful at other positions. Tate is the youngest of the Forcier brothers and he will likely represent the family's last shot at the NFL. Tate is obviously a confident kid and the Forcier track record is difficult to ignore. I just don't think he would stick around.
...they are exactly why I expect to see 2-QB systems become more prevalent in college ball. Between the "me" age and the internet age, most decent HS players seem to have a sense of entitlement now, and if they don't start right away, they are more likely to transfer than they used to be.
I think coaches will begin to figure out that it is in their best interests to make sure backups get playing time so they don't want to transfer. While I expect Robinson to have a more Tebow-esque (without Mother Teresa status) role this season, I can see QB's sharing the position in more of a 60-40 or 70-30 ratio within a couple of years. All it will take is for one team to be successful with it, and the others will follow like ants toward a bag of brown sugar.
I think it would be sorta cute for the "Godfather of the spread option" to also become the "Godfather of the two-QB system." I know that this has failed for other coaches in the past, but the situations are different. When you have a passing QB who can run a little and a running QB who can pass in a competent manner, it's a lot different than having, for example, a John Navarre and a Michael Taylor rotating the position.
I hope we see the seeds take root against OSU. That would be a great time to spring a little surprise.
I think we should start complaining, in advance in the case of DG coming in next year, about how we might possibly have THREE QBs that can run this offense very well, and the loser this year might transfer. It's not like we can do anything about it, so we should devote about 3 threads a day to it.
Only three threads a day? We need one thread each for each one of the athletes plus one thread to discuss the situation as a whole, plus a thread to criticize Coach Rodrigues for getting us into this situation, another thread to discuss how this will impact recruiting, perhaps two threads for that, because we need adequate discussion of its impact on both instate and national recruiting, a thread discussing how this will help MSU own us once and for all time, one angry flame thread where someone gets negged into oblivion and then perhaps a meta thread discussing why we are discussing all of this...repeat daily and it should make Brian a rich man...
dont forget about the thread that will talk about how awesome it was when we had no quarterbacks and didnt have to worry about any of this!
Misopogon can turn it all into a comprehensive diary with charts and shit.
Simple,if Tate succeeds and goes into the 2010 season as the starter, Denard will swith positions ie. WR or DB and Gardner will be the back up..If denard excels in 2009 and goes into 2010 as the starter, Tate may stay around depending on Gardners situation ie. RedShirt, if not Forcier will transfer..
1. Antonio Bass
2. RR has stated and (youtube video from yesterday)implied he will play 2 qbs if they deserve snaps. He has no issue with this until someone distances themselves from the competition.
This will not happen because they both have different skill sets. Tate is a great passer with good mobility and DR is a good passer with great mobility.
3. DR is just a pure athlete and could play 3 different positions a be a nightmare to play against.
I don't understand the argument re: Antonio Bass.
I also think it's very possible Tate distances himself.
Finally, Rich has said he'll play two QB's, but has he ever really done that in the past? Honest question -- I'm not sure.
Or let's let what is going to happen.... happen? I mean anointing Tate or Denard as a starter or a bust without taking a snap is an exercise in futility. And then to be bringing a kid yet to start his senior year of high school into it... oh my.
the possibility of being the starter at Michigan with National Championships on the horizon will keep them here. As stated above, every player, especially QBs in this offense are one injury away from taking the field.
I have been thinking the same thing as well. And every time I read that RR and his staff are still pursuing other highly ranked QBs for 2010 I begin to cringe just a little bit.
Just like beers and blow jobs, you can never have enough talented, capable QBs on your roster. That said there comes a point when one or two of these guys will either change positions to see more playing time or look to transfer.
In this day and age of sites like scout/rivals telling kids how good they are for years, pumping their egos, etc. I just don't see many "highly ranked" QBs reshirting or backing up for large portions of their eligible years.
Also when you factor in pressure from family, friends, "handlers" sometimes they feel that they have no choice but to do what they have to do to see the field more often. Don't think for a second that most of the people around these 4/5-star kids aren't thinking NFL.
All that said it's not a bad problem to have when all you care about is what happens on the field. However a part of me still feels that bringing in too many guys knowing a few will inevitably transfer is not the best idea for the student-athlete.
do you still post on that cesspool at all?
nope, I haven't been on there in a long time. It's just horrid.
person make the exodus from that awful place. I moved here for good when Brian made this current message board. I don't even post on other forums for my pro teams. I do all that here too.
If we pay attention to Coach Rodrigues and the things he says, this sort of situation is intentional. It is plan to recruit and develop enough talent where there is genuine competition at every postion. He wants everyone on the team to be hungry having that understanding that if they do not perform continually at the highest level they will be replaced by someone who will. The players he is recruiting need to be comfortable opperating in that kind of environment. There is no entitlement and no guarenteed starters at any position. If an athlete cannot handle that they will move on.
As for depth, once this program is up and rolling it is unlikely that any QB will see the field before their junior year unless it is in a 2 QB rotation. I like what I have seen of Forcier, but if Robinson or Gardiner supplant him, then so be it if it it gives us a better chance to win.
Given the Forcier family's penchant for transferring, I wouldn't be surprised if Tate were to pack his bags one day.
looking in i guess i could see it that way. but looking individually at each kid...
jason transferred because lefty told him they would put in some dual threat packages for him (didn't happen) then they recruited over him and brought in ryan mallett who was immediately made the backup to chad henne, i think you'd leave too.
chris transferred from ucla because he really didn't have a shot at playing QB there (they wanted him to switch to WR). if you want to play one position but the coaches want you to play something else what would you do?
so that being said, i don't think tate would transfer. he's at his dream school getting a real chance to compete for the starting position (that btw he's still the frontrunner for).
He is getting the best possible chance to compete at the school he chose. If he does not win the job here, especially given the circumstances (no upper classmen in competition), how would he have a chance at another school playing at this level and in this style? The answer would be that he would have to take a step down, and I don't see him doing that. I get the sense that Tate stays and fights for the job.
USC recruits QB's that are in Rivals' top 30(usually top 10) every year and then pits one against another. Pete Carroll doesn't seem to mind or care. This is for the team, right?
Looks like CoachRod has embodied the same mentality.
Let's just try and stay focused: win maybe seven, even eight games this season, any way we can. This is really putting the cart in front of the horse.
Members of the Forcier family are required by law to only stay two years at any one school.
I find this kind of speculation to be distateful. This isn't like a pro athlete heading into free agency. These are kids going to college. It bothers me when fans say things "He'd be a fool not to transfer." Transferring is a huge, life-changing event.
either, but that isn't what's being done here. And no one is (or should be) concerned about this either, it's just pure speculation, like any two fans might do if they were having a one on one conversation. Lastly, transferring isn't exactly something terrible or daunting as you portray, plenty of non-football students do it every year. Joe Flacco wouldn't be in the NFL today if he hadn't transferred from Pitt.
That some of the Michigan players read MGOBlOG during their limited free time? It sounds like a stretch, but can anyone here see Tate or Denard sitting in their room at night reading this stuff? I really hope to God Tate isn't reading this.
Just a few months ago Tate was proclaimed the new savior of Michigan football. Now, before a down has even been played, people are talking possible transfer. (I'm guilty of it myself in an earlier post.) Tate, if you're reading this, I'm sorry man. I didn't mean it.
I think we need to lay off the "Possible transfer" talk and just be happy as hell we finally have some great QB's.
what exactly is the harm in discussing this? It was disclaimed as pure speculation, it harms no one, it denigrates no one, it advocates nothing, it hurts no one's feelings, it doesn't take a position that would be controversial or confrontational. If you were Tate and you read this thread, a thread where not one person criticized you, and clearly people are hoping the hypothetical never happens, how exactly are you going to be upset? You may as well neg Brian for posting publicly the mailbag question about Sheridan starting the other day and answering it. That was far more potentially hurtful (in your scenario) to someone's feelings than this.
My post wasn't meant to offend your thread, sorry if you took it that way.
The point I was trying to make is that Michigan has some really good QB's, and especially after last season, that's a really good problem to have. Instead of speculating about who may or may not transfer in a year or two, we should be speculating about who may or may not play this year.
I just don't see the harm in the speculation, as long as it isn't harmful spec. or taken seriously. I too think it's great that we could potentially have 3 good QB's, and I'm not trying to find any negative in that But it's also reality these days that if a team truly has 3 talented QB's, one doesn't usually stay. So it was in the spirit of a bar conversation with a fellow fan that I asked the question.
forcier is going to mainstay for 4 years. i think people should work all future scenarios around that premise. i do believe denard is good enough to be the second used qb that rr was referring to. i would really like to see a redshirt on devin. that would give him 2 years as thee guy.
After my first season as a dynasty in NCAA'10, Denard transferred to a MAC school. I tried to talk him out of it, but lack of playing time caused him to leave. He got in about 2 series a game, mostly to run the option..
told you it was non-scientific! :)
It has been stated many many times that if Denard doesn't pan out as a QB, this offense can find a place for him (because he's crazy fast, and we like crazy fast). He knew that coming in. I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't an upside for him coming to Michigan.
If Tate wins the starting job there is a pretty decent chance that Denard sticks around I think. Rodriguez can sell him on the Jarret Brown thing where he is the backup qb and also plays another position. And Tate is not a very big guy and there is a decent chance he could get hurt.
If Denard wins the starting job I do think that Tate would transfer. Both of his older brothers transferred (though I'm not sure on chris forcier though, i know he went back and forth on that though) and I dont think Tate can play another position.
As to Gardner I am pretty sure he will redshirt. I've heard that is supposed to be kind of raw and needs some work on the fundamentals. Even if he is a Vince Young type talent, Vince Young redshirted at Texas (though you could argue that Texas was in a different position than Michigan is now). And I'm sure that Jones will probably redshirt also. If Denard wins the job and Tate wants to transfer, Michigan will be ok as long as he waits a year so that Michigan has qb depth and so that Gardner and Jones can redshirt.
I don't think anybody is going to leave. Forcier will be the starter and do the bulk of the work. Denard Robinson will see his snaps as well with the packages he is in. If after this year he moves to another position he can get playing time there beause he is athletic enough to play a couple positions. Then when Devin Gardner comes in he will most likely redshirt to improve his mechanics but after that he will be a back up a couple years then start a couple years. Hopefully that is how this whole thing works out but you can never tell.
I'm less worried about one of these guys transferring than I am about Gardner leaving if he has to sit on the bench for three years before starting, which is possible.
It's COMPETITION that has been the theme of Rich Rodriguez since he took over. Having this many QB's who are talented is going to make each of them better, keep each of them up at nights practicing, sleeping with footballs, on their toes academically and in the film room doing whatever they can to be better. I hope they have established a friendly rivalry that Gardner can add to.
One thing about Gardner is his seeming desire to do whatever is best for the team. By all accounts, he is a fantastic receiver--he could play there at least his first two years. And do very well.
And having this kind of offensive talent will make the defense better as well. How fun will it be to have a team whose defense faces nobody better during the season than its own offense?
And the transfers will stop--I know Michigan fans are a bit gun shy due to the turmoil of the last two offseasons, but the transfers and decommits are coming from guys who will and would never have seen the light of day. There is no way that will happen when the metamorphosis is complete and Rodriguez knows how to use all his weapons.
Devin Gardner will NOT be moved to WR for his first couple of seasons. I'm shocked that you would even think that's a possibility. That's NOT how you go about developing a quarterback.
But, you see Jay, you just don't see the value in having a QB play WR. Then he learns how the WRs think, and this makes him a better QB. It's so obvious. If you play a QB at WR in NCAA 20##, he still gets his awareness increased. This is clearly how to go about developing a QB.