Past JH criticism the key to understanding what we're seeing?
Just a quick sampling of past criticism of Coach Harbaugh. Key takeaways from these were 1) lack of motivation for players 2) won based on manball not schematics and 3) game prep seems to have declined in the past few years
"There are a lot of things Coach Harbaugh is really good at it, but pre-game pep talks is not one of them. I don't think it's as simple as saying if he just told us to 'Win one for the Gipper' we'd go out and crush it, but before a game, you're building and building your energy. Like you don't just get off the bus ready to crush the entire team. There is a process and I don't think he's great at that process of getting his guys ready to go. I think for home games, the crowd, running out of the tunnel, hearing the fight song, the banner ... all of that gets you hyped. On the road, you need to manufacture all that stuff, and it's not something he really excels at."
"Jim, I had a lot of respect for Jim when I was there – before I got to know him ... They had great assistant coaches, but Jim didn't know what he was doing," Jacobs said on the show. "Jim had no idea. Jim is throwing slants into Cover-2 safeties, getting people hurt."
"Going somewhere where they don't have route conversions into certain coverages was just absurd. They're just running routes in the defense, getting people killed," Jacobs said. "Size and strength is what they had, and that's why they won. Let's be real."
Coaches opinions about Michigan & Harbaugh after the first year....does anyone believe this now?
“They want to outwork you. That was the whole satellite camp thing last offseason. He wanted to send a message to the SEC and other schools that he will outwork you to make up for any advantage you might have over Michigan.”
“They’re scouting opponents better than anyone in our league. They’re at Alabama’s level of prep and analysis, and as they’ve started to fit talent you’re seeing the effects. It’s hard to surprise them.”
There's alot more stuff out there if anyone else wants to parse & share.
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:51 PM ^
If this program doesn't want to pay recruits big money to try and compete with osu, bama and Clemson then just keep JH. 8-4 with yearly losses to osu and in the bowl is what this program is otherwise. Either play with the big boys or be okay with the occasional shit show like Saturday and win more games than you lose.
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:53 PM ^
We didn't lose Saturday from lack of talent.
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:54 PM ^
Really? Cause that secondary of 3 stars look like shit to me.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:01 PM ^
You realize the recruits that Michigan put on field were ranked higher than the ones sparty put on the field right? You could argue talent against the likes of OSU but not against the team MSU fielded on Saturday.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:48 PM ^
Again, MY POST IS NOT ABOUT THE MSU GAME. ITS ABOUT MICHIGAN AS A PROGRAM. Smh
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:44 PM ^
No need to shout my dude but you were absolutely inferring to our secondary in the MSU game. If not, did you think they looked bad against say... Minn the week before? No they weren't great but nobody, including yourself, saw us getting shredding against Lombardi and receivers we've never even heard of. I mean who the fuck is Ricky White? Nailor? I hardly know her.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:41 PM ^
Really? Cause that secondary of 3 stars look like shit to me.
While you're right that Hawkins, Gray, & Green are all 3-stars. But, they beat out several 4-stars sitting on the bench in Jalen Perry, Quinten Johnson, Andre Seldon, Jordan Morant, Darion GW, Makari Paige, and RJ Moten and further forced JKP, Ben St. Juste, & Miles Sims to transfer. Most teams would kill for that many 4-star DBs. The problem isn't the talent, the problem is the recruiting fit for our scheme. None of these dudes are fast enough to play man coverage, at least when it comes to the CBs.
November 3rd, 2020 at 1:25 AM ^
Haven't we seen a trend of defenses getting absolutely shredded this year? Even across the SEC's bama types? How about LSU? They recruit as good as any, what's their excuse?
I'm not sure if it's been speculated, but the 3-5 games worth of reps against cupcake teams isn't for nothing. And it's a cliche that practice simply cannot replace live, in-game reps.
Not saying the defense wasn't exposed, and the coaching should have adjusted schemewise, but our offense only put up 24 points, which is peanuts in todays game, especially considering this year's trends.
November 3rd, 2020 at 10:19 AM ^
Or the problem is out coaches can’t eval and execute on the talent the ‘think’ they need.
November 3rd, 2020 at 4:04 PM ^
They “beat out” a bunch of freshman lmfao
November 3rd, 2020 at 4:57 PM ^
They “beat out” a bunch of freshman lmfao
Jalen Perry & Quinten Johnson are sophomores and Ben St. Juste is a senior starting for another team in our conference. FWIW Johnson had the best ATH SPARQ score of 125.7 in the 2019 class and ran a 4.48 40. And, Andre Seldon also had the top CB SPARQ score last year and runs a 4.5 40. There really isn't any reason a true freshman CB shouldn't be able to play if he's good enough. Speed is not Seldon or Johnson's problem.
I'm not a coach, but Gray, Green, & Hawkins must be doing something right in practice to keep these guys off the field. All that said I'm sure the coaches would love to have Thomas and I'd guess the problems would be masked a lot easier with him on the field.
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:55 PM ^
Or how about a walk on playing at linebacker?
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:49 PM ^
Um, Shipley rotated in because McGrone is hurt and those four star freshmen played and didn’t do as well. It is not recruiting stars that force us to lose to anyone but OSU. We have finished in the top 3 Big Ten recruitment ranking every year under Harbaugh. This was purely poor coaching and poor development of the defensive talent at DB. And that pass rush smells. Mofo Hutchinson supposed to be like a Bosa?!? Sure, Dad. I thought your sun was ready to make a jump, too, but he either isn’t good enough or isn’t coached well enough to make impact plays in the first two games. He’s got maybe 1-2 decent plays in two games. Paye didn’t show up; Hinton has not done a thing as a 5-star in his second year, at a position of great news. And where is Mazi?
“Meritocracy.”
November 3rd, 2020 at 10:36 AM ^
Thought Shipley acquitted himself well while in there.
November 3rd, 2020 at 12:56 PM ^
You guys could at least spell the man’s name correctly.
November 3rd, 2020 at 9:49 AM ^
You realize these walk ons are recruited, they just don't have a scholarship. It isn't like some dude walked out of Stats 350 and into Schembechler Hall.
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:59 PM ^
You honestly think stinky turds like Saturday's game would disappear if Michigan dropped bags of money on the doorstep of 5*? Do 5*s not require game prep, scheme, and passion? Does Saban, Meyer, and Swinney just let top recruits skip practice and meetings?
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:02 PM ^
Coaching matters but are u telling me 5 stars are letting white have 200 yards receiving ?? Lol stop it. My post btw is more than about Saturday. Pay attention.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:07 PM ^
Are you not familiar with scheme, alignment, and technique? Because those things are taught.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:38 PM ^
Like how would YOU know about these things??? I mean it's not like you actually played football for Michigan or anything right.
Poser.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:47 PM ^
Poser because I didn'tplay lol fucking clown. I'm glad I'm done with this shit site and program haha. Enjoy being average at best. C ya
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:11 PM ^
Bye, Felicia.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:19 PM ^
No asshole, the "poser" comment was sarcasticaly directed at the guy you're debating who actually did fucking play ball for Michigan and has forgotten more about the game than you'll ever know.
Bye.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:05 PM ^
He was talking about readyourguard, who played football at Michigan.
November 3rd, 2020 at 6:09 AM ^
It's always a good day when the board loses a shitty poster. He is, was and always will be a shitty poster.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:40 PM ^
I just read your comment from this morning about Harbaugh's meritocracy, and it explains everything. Talented guys come in and seem promising, and then leave for no apparent reason.
What's depressing to me is that after 6 years of this, there is virtually zero chance he will figure this out. In fact, he may even take pride in guys leaving (tHoSe WhO sTaY). But there is no way he can be our coach if this continues to be his approach.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:20 PM ^
Paying five-stars to sign with your program without the coaching to make the most of the talent doesn't catch you up to Ohio State. It catches you up to Texas.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:33 PM ^
It makes you Ole Miss under Hugh Freeze.
Now Ole Miss under Kiffin (a brilliant offensive mind) will get interesting.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:39 PM ^
Lot of dead weight on the staff that needs to be cut loose.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:44 PM ^
Since reading seems difficult I said either pay for better talent or just keep JH. Because if we get another coach and keep this talent level Michigan will never win anything. Would better coaching have beat msu? Yes. Would better players have beat msu? Yes. Not hard.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:52 PM ^
The players are better. Dax Hill is not a safety. He’s the best corner, but they want him running around deep as if that is the area we get beat on all the time. It is piss poor coaching. That’s what lost that game. Piss poor playcalling and no adjustments for when players were failing to make up for game plan against them.
November 3rd, 2020 at 12:13 AM ^
Amen, brother.
November 3rd, 2020 at 12:38 AM ^
It would have been nice if Dax Hill had been running around deep to provide coverage support over the top, alas, that was not in Don Brown’s game plan and he has somehow lost the ability to make half time adjustments now.
November 3rd, 2020 at 8:21 AM ^
WOTS is that the coaching staff asked Hill to move to cornerback, and he said he's going to be a safety in the NFL so he doesn't want to play corner.
So you have to be careful about making general insinuations. I'm not saying the rumor I posted here is true, because that's not on the record anywhere.
But saying 100% that Michigan WANTS Hill playing back deep is perhaps not accurate. I think they want him playing corner. But it's a two-way street.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:59 PM ^
There is no way this team is going to win at a .667 clip this year -- 8-4 is a pipe dream.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:12 PM ^
Especially since there are only 8 games.
November 3rd, 2020 at 8:45 AM ^
that argument is valid when we lose to the ohio state penitentiary.... but lets be honest, we sign top 10 or top 15 recruiting classes every year, lil bro doesn't crack the top 25.....
we did not lose because msu recruits better players
November 2nd, 2020 at 6:56 PM ^
Get Charles Woodson to pump up the team.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:45 PM ^
For real. Sick of him being embarrassed on TV and complaining. Fly out to AA and stay for a few weeks to teach concepts instead of complaining about it on FOX
November 3rd, 2020 at 10:27 AM ^
so this staff sucks so bad that now we're yelling at Charles Woodson? wow
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:02 PM ^
Four offensive linemen lost to the NFL, top receivers gone, DB's and linebackers gone/opting out, a new QB who has played relatively few meaningful snaps, very little practice time in pads, etc...If Michigan had not beaten Minnesota so soundly, everyone's expectations wouldn't have been so lofty going into the MSU game.
Why don't you look back at how bad the program was under Hoke and RichRod, and truly remember how far we have come since then. It is going to be a tough year, but replacing Harbaugh is not a smart response. You are not going to find a better replacement and the administration is not going to cut him loose.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:29 PM ^
I disagree that we would not find a better replacement. You can’t know that. It turns out he’s just not a great recruiter and is extremely stubborn. He has to fire Don brown and whomever had been recruiting the defense the last couple years. He has shown he would do it before. He has to do it now.
November 2nd, 2020 at 7:45 PM ^
If Dudek is not fired, it is a shame. Dude is weak link. Clear out defense, all of them.Especially 3-3-5 guy.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:09 PM ^
I don’t need to look back to Rich Rod and Hoke to say we sucked then and now we suck less. Congrats we went from Illinois to *Iowa.
Was that the expectation when Harbaugh was hired?
*minus the win against OSU
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:01 PM ^
Why are we still talking about six years and two presidents ago? I also remember Moeller, Carr, and Schembechler years. Trying to rationalize that the current state of the program is okay because it went into a trench and is now at sea level is silly. You want fans to settle for mediocrity while being told they’re leaders and the best. Messaging. JH should only be retained based on lowering expectations to the fan base. He’s plateaued. Could it go back down with a new hire? Yeah. Of course. Is it a guarantee they cannot find someone who can take his team and go upward? How did OSU and Oklahoma do it? How did Georgia improve from Richt? We did have Pete Carrolll. We aren’t USC of the Bush era. We have not won a league title outright in the Harbaugh era.
I was an apologist. I’m done. To pretend that things will improve is being stuck in an abusive relationship where you hope not to get kicked in the nuts the day after getting back from a trip to Italy or South Africa or Paris. Sorry, but if the players and coaches are treated like elites—fans deserve them to be. Or, stop asking for our money and our faith in getting better.
November 2nd, 2020 at 8:27 PM ^
I agree, except I would go further. The program has not plateaued the last year and a half; it's gone downhill. That article in the original post was illuminating. Those first few years of Harbaugh, the energy surrounding the program was palpable. There were innovative recruiting strategies (satellite camps), game plans that schemed free yards in key games (2015 MSU), and those sideline rants. The sideline demeanor is the most obvious change to the casual fan, but everything else that vaulted the program from the Hoke abyss to where it was under the first few years of Harbaugh is gone.
Until last Saturday, I would have never thought the program would be better off looking for another coach. But after that debacle, I can't say that anymore. Firing Don Brown isn't going to bring the energy back to the program. A new coach might not be any better, and the program could be worse off than now. But watching Saturday's game, and in the context of the past few seasons, it's not reasonable to expect Michigan to contend for Big 10 championships under Harbaugh. Another coach might perform worse, but at least there would be a chance Michigan could compete at a higher level. With this new Harbaugh, I don't see that ever being a possibility.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:48 PM ^
Whoop de fucking doo, we go 8-5 or 9-4 now and beat no one instead of 7-6 or 5-7 like Hoke. And there's a real good chance we have as bad of a win % this year as Hoke's last team.
Stop making excuses. If your boy was as good of a coach as you think he is we wouldnt have holes all over the roster in year six.
November 2nd, 2020 at 9:51 PM ^
All that big time talent in last years team went 9-4 and was embarrassed by OSU and Alabama
November 2nd, 2020 at 11:21 PM ^
I totally agree...I’m as disappointed and disheartened as anyone, but Minnesota definitely inflated us a bit even though we have new secondary, new O line, new starting receivers, new QB etc..And I too am very disappointed in the coaching job on Saturday.
..buuuttttttttt, unless Urban Meyer is a shoo-in as the predecessor, firing Harbaugh and finding a replacement is a massive gamble. I keep seeing a Bo Pelini at Nebraska esque scenario happen where we imagine we are getting an upgrade only to fall further into an abyss. Harbaugh has at least got us back to consistent 8-4 or better. Which brings me to my next point....
Harbaugh right now reminds me of Lloyd Carr but without all the support that Carr got from Bo personally, a speed in space college game, and an absolute juggernaut Ohio State program of which Carr never really had to deal with year in and year out. Seriously, did anyone think that the 2000 Michigan squad would finish 9-3? Losses to MSU and Northwestern? Or the 2007 team going 9-4 losing to App State and being blown out by Oregon? Or 2005 team going 7-5 for that matter? Yet in hindsight we all seem pretty fond overall of Lloyd. I think we need to appreciate, even with the flaws, that Harbaugh is keeping this program above water and will likely win 70-80% games if he stays another 10 years and does a good job getting assistants and keeping up recruiting. We would need to pray for lightning in a bottle if we were to replace Harbaugh, because any “good” coach not named Saban or Meyer would be at best a lateral move.
Yes this loss is awful, certainly the worst of the Harbaugh era. But Harbaugh’s squad did have a slight bounce back for a bit last year until playing 2 world beating teams to end the year...he also rallied the team in 2018 to 10 straight wins. And I think in 2017 he got all he could out of O’Korn and Peters. I still believe there is enough talent to make this an entertaining year in what is the weirdest college season of our lifetimes. I believe he will rally some troops and win at least 4 of these last 6 games and it will be good practice for all the new players.
I still say the floor for this year is 5-3/4-4 in a weird year with lots of new moving parts. One of those big plays doesn’t happen Saturday/a couple less very costly penalties/Gemon Green gets the int, and we are likely talking about another frustrating win a la Army game 2019 where we still gripe and complain and say “FIRE HARBAUGH!” But at least we won.
i have never seen another coach have more pitchfork and torch wielding fans after a loss than Harbaugh. Seriously, every loss since 2018 has ended in multiple “fire Harbaugh” threads as if we would easily find a coach to match his success in the current B1G landscape.
All that being said, I do think when they go to discuss renewing Harbaugh’s contract next year, that maybe they offer him a little less yearly, but with greater incentive for beating a rival, mainly OSU, winning B1G and making CFP/May championship. But as of right now, I am truly thankful that Jim is at least keeping us an overall winning program that has a legit pulse every year.
But yes, this particular game truly sucked. So did several Carr era games, almost every RichRod game, and the second half of Brady Hoke’s games. If this type of loss becomes the trend and we miss bowl appearances or have lots of 6-6 type years, then time to look elsewhere, but for now, keep Harbaugh.
November 3rd, 2020 at 1:46 PM ^
No, how about they tell Harbaugh no more long term contracts - just year to year - until we start seeing A, B, C, D, etc. results. But that probably wouldn't solve the problem. The issue is he's lost his mojo as an elite coach and it isn't coming back.