OT- Used Car ideas
Hello MGoBoard,
Seeing as JeepInBen hasn't posted a Talking Cars Tuesday yet I am here to steal some of his thunder...
I am looking for a used car, ideally something like a higher mileage Honda Accord or Subaru that I can drive for a couple years and then resell with decent value. Any other suggestions on make/model are welcome, my budget is around 4-5,000... only requirements are good mileage, reliability and hopefully nicer inside than my beater of a Chevy.
Any ideas on places around Ann Arbor/Metro Detroit to look? Have you used cars.com, Autotrader, craigslist in the past? Suggestions welcome.
That is a cool story, thanks for the advice. I will be walking into the dealer with that mindset for sure.
Jalopnik.com
big car community there, lots of advice and articles
Plus they have a Michigan automotive lawer that regularly gets featured articles there.
to visit relatives for holidays and such, i generally know more about the goings on with Ford GM and Chrysler than they do because of "The Morning Shift". One of my Cousins works for GM and he asked me once if I study up before coming to visit so I have stuff to talk to people about, lol.
I live in NC now, but most of my family is about 40 minutes north of Detroit and I'm the one who always has to fill them in onthe big 3. Thank you Jalopnik.
I try and read that every morning. They always have something good in there. Great site all around and I always look forward to the next DeMuro article. That guy is awesome.
This could go horrribly wrong if he follows the Doug Demuro school of car buying.
I'm sure Tavarish could help him out though
where he crushed the PT Crusier was hilarious
I've wanted to try going to a dealer since hearing an episode of "This American Life" about car dealerships.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/513/129-cars
Fun fact: car dealers DO offer better deals at the end of the month as they push to make their sales goals. It is a pretty great bit of journalism, and wel worth the 1-hour investment.
the first day I went to look the sticker said $2500, and their first offer was 3k including title and fees and tax and whatnot. After checking the carfax and talking to the mechanic who filed 32 service records, I told them I could go to 2k total. They came back at $2500 and we parted ways for the day.
Next day, I was still thinking about the car and went back on their website. i was considering calling the dealer back and upping my offer to $2200. On the website, I noticed that the price had dropped overnight from $2500 to $1600. I called the dealer and verified it was the same car. And he says "now we can do the 2k you offered, out the door. do you want it now?" I said sure, but Ill only pay $1800, I had to spend some money last night on Thomas the Tank Engine playsets. Dude paused for a minute, probably annoyed that I was still chipping away at him, but I got it (also, it WAS month end, definitely helped. Im no wizard, nor do I claim to be)
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price- 1600
tax (8%) - 128
dealer "documentation" fee- $175 (they showed it to me the previous day)
title/plates - $42.50
Total- $1945.50
So when I offered $1800 "out the door" I was not offering more than the advertised price. Also, keep in mind this was a car I determined the day before was worth $2k to me, so I wasn't trying to negotiate for every last dime. At the time it seemed about the best I'd be able to do for the money I wanted to spend and actually get to keep some of my planned budget in the bank long enough to pay other bills with, so I was ok with that
End of the month is huge, and I got a great deal buying a car at the end of the month.
Some other factors - they had offered me a set number for a trade-in. I sold it for more on craigslist that day, but on my first offer to the dealership, just subtracted their trade-in value from MSRP. They told me to make a more reasonable offer. I told them I wouldn't negotiate against myself and that they needed to make me a new offer. They came down a little, showed me some numbers, and asked how much profit I would let them make. I told them I didn't care one lick if they made profit. I came up a tiny bit. Then the manager comes out and starts trying to sell. At this point, I tell them (truthfully) that I can get a brand new competitor car with more features for less than where they're at. So, they ask me to make a final offer. I came up once again a little bit, and they accepted. $6,500 below sticker.
The other stuff helped, but I think the dealer would have been way less flexible had it been mid or early month.
i buy all our stuff at auction. try www.copart.com or www.iaai.com . there is a search box for whatever type of make/model you are looking for. find what you want. get a mechanic (listed by site) to go out to the yard to make sure you aren't buying a piece of junk, should cost about $100-125. figure the amount you want to bid for whatever vehicle you want and i can get you to a guy who has the proper car buying/dealer license and a transport company to retrieve your car, although you can do that last part on your own if you want.
the aucitons are all over the U.S. you can literally find almost any type of vehicle you ever could dream of. my cost for our rigs, including shipping, any repairs, etc. has generally been about .60 cents on the dollar for what you might pay retail. sometimes much less.
I have a 2007 Mazdaspeed 3 and it has been great. A lot of fun to drive, 130,000 mi, and the only fixes have been suspension (the mazdaspeed has stiffer suspension and low profile tires), breaks (just had them done few months ago), tires (third set last year), and oil changes (synthetic on the speed).
I don't have rust on mine, but you'd best to look for one in the south, as I've seen some with rust. The hatch makes it very functional as I've used it to transport everything (sedan also available), and is a fun car to drive. I'd recommend the 2.3L mazda 3 because it is more fun to drive. You can also find manuals if you like to heal toe.
So, similar reliability to the hondas and toyotas with a little zoom to go with it.
Just sold my 2011 MS3. 65,000 miles. Loved it, but it was due for some suspension work, battery, tires and brakes weren't far behind.
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I bought a Pontiac G6 for my kids when they were in High School using a broker who served as my agent at an Auto Auction in Flint. I went on the lot with them and picked out a bunch of cars I would buy at the agreed price. They added a couple hundred on top of the auction price as their fee
In this case I got a 1-2 year old Pontiac G6 with about 40k miles for less than $9k and still have the car 6 years later.
You can look at the cars here www.flintaa.com but need to be a dealer to buy, that is why I needed a broker.
I was able to get CarFax's on the cars I looked at. Many were former rental cars which can be good (serviced) and bad (rough use).
If you want I can email you my brokers name. She did it part time on the side so I am not sure if she still does this so I am reluctant to post her email here.
You can look at the pipeline of cars here https://www.edgepipeline.com you can signup without being a dealer. If any of you had a dealer buddy looking at cars here can be fun.
Probably more risk than some other avenues but you may be able to get a deal. But it takes time and is a hassle compared to Craigslist or visiting a dealership.
dependable vehicle. 45+mpg. The Diesel engine will outlast everything else on the vehicle and help hold its value.
I bought one two years ago and it has been a GREAT car. I can go 500+ miles on a tank of gas that costs $32.
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My tdi is a 2002 and I love it. 212,000 miles and going strong
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2010 Jetta TDI here...bought it over two years ago (second owner) and really love it. Gas mileage is great and love the ride. My only regret is not getting a wagon.
Lots of lot of cred over at Jalopnik for not getting the wagon.
I've had multiple family members and friends put over 200k on both corollas and civics. 340k on one of the corollas. Those things just keep running.
You're not going to be able to find that for 5 grand, I'm sorry.
I just bought a second car - was looking for a 'beater' that was reliable and was something I could drive my dog around in (to the vet, to the park, etc.) that I wouldn't get mad about her slobbering all over.
I settled on a 2008 Lexus RX350 with around 125K miles for around $13,000. I could have had a 2000 Toyota 4Runner with around the same miles for $10,000. A bunch of other, decent cars around the $10,000 mark as well - but nothing... absolutely nothing around $5,000. Hell, even a Honda Element with 300K miles was over $5,000.
I just double checked and searched for all cars under $5,000 within a 25 mile radius of my zip code.
Basically a bunch of cars with 150K+ miles. Since you made a reference to Honda, in terms of Japanese cars, there is a 2003 Acura CL with 204,000 miles and a 2006 Honda Accord with 161,000 miles. and a couple of Honda vans with north of 200,000 miles.
My suggestion is that you expand your budget to around $10,000 - it will get you a much better car.
He's a college student.
Yes... going back to grad school. So my budget is not able to expand past what I stated. Raffy, are you in Michigan? I would dispute that 10k is a limit... maybe it is if you aren't willing to buy something with high miles. I am.
What's your zip code?
Just because cars are advertised for certain prices doesn't mean they're selling for that much. As someone mentioned above, dealers sometimes have good deals, and it may be the salesman trying to make some end of month quota or something. My daughter was able to knock nearly $2000 off the asking price because she saw a similar car for a lower price at another dealership. And it wasn't a high dollar vehicle either. She ended up paying something like $7500 instead of $9500. The other car had about 25,000 more miles and didn't have the same upgrades and bells and whistles as the one she ended up buying, but the salesman said he would match their price anyway, though he did the old song and dance about it being such a great deal he had to clear it with his sales manager first.
A couple of things that may have worked in our favor were we had financing already worked out (though we ended up with even a better finance deal through the dealer), and we were clear that we were definitely buying a car that day or the next: we weren't just going around kicking tires and wasting people's time.
During my last car buying experience there were a ton of manual cars that sold for pretty cheap with lower milage. Look at like a Mazda 6 or a 3.
That's an interesting tip. I wonder if it scares people off or is a feature people just don't want to deal with?
I wouldn't mind learning, think it's probably a good skill to have especially if you travel and drive outside North America.
Depending on the generation. I had a first gen Mazda 6 (2003) with a V6 engine and 5 speed. I really liked the car as it drove great and had a lot of space. The drive train was a ford, and at 30,000 mi I had to have the transmission replaced. At around 80,000 mi I had the same issues with the trans (syncros) and also had a starter issue.
I replaced it with a Mazdaspeed 3, which is all built by mazda, and have had very few issues.
You might be able to get a mazdaspeed 6, which had a mazda drive train along with awd.
Manuals can be fun, and are less likely to be stolen. They can also stink in a traffic jam, but your calf muscles will be awesome from all the heal to toe action.
If you do learn to drive a manual, my best advice is to go to a vacant parking lot that is flat, hold the revs at 3,000 rpm, and slowly move your left foot to find the friction point on the clutch. That will give you a smooth start without trying to balance the left and right foot. Practice this launch a bunch. After first, the rest of the gears are easy. Clutches are a lot easier now a days too. Your biggest mistake will be the time you stall 5 times at an intersection before realizing you are in 3rd and not 1st.
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Can't go wrong with a well maintained TDI Golf or Jetta. 300,000 miles is not unrealistic. In your price range you should be able to find one of them. Do not get an automatic! It's the weak link when paired with a TDI.
if driven properly your mileage will be similar to a hybrid.
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1.) It's new
2.) Under bumper to bumper warranty
3.) It's cheaper than buying with a small amount do at signing
4.) Provides you flexibility in the future as life changes
5.) With the way technology changes (iPhones) you want to have the freedom to get the newer model.
I sell cars and we have a 80% lease penetration. As a younger adult I always ask them: Do you want to be in a long term relationship OR short term?
Lost all credibility in my book. Don't steer someone with a tight budget to something that's known to be a huge loss then admit you have a conflict of interest.
What is wrong with a lease? It's perfect for someone who wants a new car on a tight budget. ...
(Edit)- Provided that they can stay within appropriate mileage
I will lease on occasion but will never claim it is a good deal.
But sometimes dealers in Detroit will do crazy deals, especially with employee discounts. I had a new Dodge Dakota pickup one year lease for $1200. It was 15 years ago but it was still probably a $15-$20k truck. They did something similar with Jeeps.
I currently have a $42k sticker Silverado two year lease including all taxes and fees for a one time payment of $6k. It makes no sense for a student but not that bad for a two year rental.
Obviously buying used is your best bet.
Ha, thanks. I'm looking for something a bit smaller... no kids yet.
You may set search parameters on Autotrader.com with maximum you are willing to pay and maximum mileage and see what pops up within a given distance.
I did a search near my location for under $5000 and mileage below 50,000. A 2004 Pontiac Bonneville with 12,465 miles came up at a dealer near Saginaw, Michigan with a list price of $3995 plus sales tax and other fees. It has cloth seats, but many other options.
There was also a 2002 Geo Prizm (made by a joint venture between Toyota and GM) and powered by a Toyota engine with less than 44,000 miles for $4,000 at a dealer in Grand Blanc.
There was a 2006 Chevrolet HHR LT with 41,390 miles at an auto seller near Flint listed for $3995.
Wow misinformation all over the place in this thread. I can't believe how many people give their ONE experience with a specific make/model and assume everyone else will experience the same. Please don't buy a car based on someone's anecdote.
I'd really like to know why you want a Honda so bad?
My advice is the opposite of the guy who said he preferred dealerships. I think you get a better deal from a private seller and if you're any good at reading people you'll know if the person is trying to screw you over right away.
Reliability ratings or reputations are complete BS. This all comes from companies like consumer reports who create a reliability rating on a car that is brand new. That's impossible. The only way to judge reliability is with age, and by the time a model gets old you have no idea how reliable the new versions will be. It's crap. A car is only as reliable as the driver makes it. So you can either buy a new car and treat it with care forever and it'll last 300,000 miles or you can try to find someone who has already done that to a car and depreciated it down to something you can afford.
One other thing, don't buy a car with a manual transmission if you don't know how to shift them properly. Practice on someone's beater or a rental car first. You'll just end up ruining the very car you're trying to take care of.
Hondas, from literally every friend or family member I've talked to, have been reliable. And among our family, most cheap GMs (cars, not trucks or SUVS, and nothing like a cadillac or Buick...I'm talking Chevys, Saturns etc) developed some issues. I will never buy a GM sedan again in my life... As soon as mine hit 90k even with maintenance and lots of highway miles, everything decided to break. So I think its reputation is well earned.
That said, thanks for the other tips, especially on the clutch. It probably isn't a great idea to buy and learn on my own vehicle.
Fair enough. I think you are ignoring a lot of other good vehicles out there, and honestly that's still not a lot of data points to base an opinion. If you really want decent generalized opinions of car manufacturers you better talk to independant mechanics who are young (in their 30's and 40's).
Yeah I do highly recommend a manual transmission if you can learn to drive it in a way that it will last. I drive one, and it's bullet-proof. Manuals have much fewer moving parts that go bad, and if you learn how to sync the engine with the driveshaft as you release the clutch, you'll never have to replace it. I bought my current car with 85,000 miles and had to replace the clutch at 100,000 because the old lady who drove it before me kept the clutch pushed in at every stop. The actual clutch surface was fine, but the throw-out bearing was shot. So after I put a new clutch kit in it that I bought for $85 on Ebay, I haven't had to touch it. I'm at 282,000 miles right now.
Find someone with a stick-shift pickup truck. Those clutches are really easy to replace when they go bad, so if you destroy it, it'll be easier to help him fix it.