Definitely tired of school shootings. Sucks for everybody, Ohio Wolverines included...
Definitely tired of school shootings. Sucks for everybody, Ohio Wolverines included...
Yeah, that made me go '...wha?' Obviously the rivalry and hatred for OSU takes a back seat to all of this, but I'll admit I saw that picture and was a teeny bit ashamed for thinking for a split second that my first thought was 'Please don't let the shooter be a Michigan fan'
I hadn't seen that picture either. I'm also glad the shooter didn't target the Michigan kid (although these shooters, whatever they are thinking, aren't thinking about football rivalries).
The picture caused me to think about my son, a senior at Solon High School, who happily (and bravely, I think) wears Michigan gear to school.
I too was guilty of that thought. Prayers go out for all involved.
Very Sad. I live in a southeastern suburb of Cleveland and Chardon is not that far away. It has been all over the news for 24 hours -- I'm actually surprised you just heard about it. The news media moved into Chardon by last evening and seem to be camped out there.
Chardon is a nice town in a generally rural county. It is in the midst of the snow belt. Chardon is Ohio's Mancelona.
Having survived an office shooting 18 years ago in California, I am particularly sensitive to these tragedies. Losing kids so young, and having so many other kids have to deal with the loss of their friends and the loss of their security is terrible.
101 California? I'm guessing that was the shooting you survived, as it was around that timeframe.
I pass by there every day and remember that day like it was yesterday. (My father worked across the street at the time.)
It was indeed 101 California (in San Francisco). I was an attorney at Pettit & Martin, where the shooting began. I lost a few friends that day.
Fuck's sake when will these type of trajedies end. So damn sad.
I was in Flint, Michigan (I really need to pick out better places to live) for a school shooting there in 2001 - this one was arguably the most appalling one I've heard about because the assailant was a freaking 6-year old. Jeez. I wish I was making that up.
I'm assuming you mean the assailant in the Flint case was 6. I originally thought you were talking about the Chardon case. That shooter was a teenager. It's sad that there are enough of these cases to get confused.
Apparently from his wounds.
Grew up in Strongsville southwest of Cleveland, now living on the east side in Cleveland Heights, which about 20 miles from Chardon. Everybody here is just shocked. It all hits a little too close to home.
There are reports that claim the shooter was frequently bullied and lived in a very unstable family situation (father arrested repeatedly). Also sad.
about to get neutered when the news came in. A number of people there had kids in the school with no way of contacting them.
I think the truly scary part about this is the "ANOTHER" part. In some circles, it almost feels like we are numb to the situation now. It's a horrible tradgedy, but the part that worries me the most is that we aren't shocked by them anymore, it's almost become commonplace and that is sad. We just continue to see things like this, and take no course of corrective action, though, admittedly, I don't know what that corrective action might be.
but the point about not taking corrective action is incorrect IMHE. Now I live in Canada so I can't speak for what has been done in the USA, but in Canada things have evolved significantly since the first VT shooting a few years ago.
I am close frends with the superintendent of the local school board and we have often discussed the various changes that have taken place since that time and they are considerable. From extensive emeregncy management plans that are developed with the envolvement of the various emergency services groups to the extensive training of all staff in terms of how to recognize high risk children and how to interact during (and de-escalate) volatile situations.
I guess what I am saying is at least in Canada the corrective action has been going on for a very long time (as I am sure is the case in the USA). The problem is that even when a school is as prepared as they possibly can be, if a person has a gun and is intent on using it for a specific puprose, there isn't much that can be done about it.
The one thing that has to stay in the forefront is there is always more that can be done, and there are very important lessons to be learned from every tragedy such as this that will make people a little more prepared/aware in the future. It would make things even worse if we weren't smart enough to learn from terrible things like this.
My heart goes out to the families in Chardon. People around NE Ohio are wearing red and black today to support the hilltoppers colors. That being said My problem is with the parents. If you have a gun in the house it should be locked. Parents need to be held accountable for these tragedies as well. I think if an incident like this occurs where a weapon was used from within the home a strong mandatory sentence should be imposed on the parents. People might start locking their guns and incidents like these might occur less.
But, who's to say they weren't locked up? I know that there was nothing in my house I didn't figure out a way to get to.
If you can't manage to keep your kids from breaking in and stealing your gun to go murder other kids, then maybe you shouldn't own a gun.
If a kid is that angry or depressed or whatever, he'll find a way to hurt people. You may have one student killed in a stabbing instead of 2 dead and 2 injured in a shooting, but it will happen. It's a cliche but true that guns don't kill people, people kill people.
It is exponentially harder to inflict huge amounts of lethal damange to multiple targets with a knife than it is with a gun. It's also a hell of a lot easier to run away from someone with a knife than someone firing bullets.
Your cliche is wrong. People kill people. But people will guns kill more people, more easily
Anyway, the idea that you shouldn't be responsible and keep your weapons locked safely away from your kids just because they will just find some other way to murder their classmates is pretty ridiculous.
Note: We do not know (the last time I checked) where this kid got the gun from.
This is already getting borderline political but we'll go a little further down the rabbit hole. I wasn't saying you shouldn't keep your firearm in a secure place and handle it responsibly. I'm saying that all the things we blame on our condition as a society are tools and people are the ones using or misusing them. You can't blame in inanimate object for your problems or regulate its responsible use. PEOPLE will find a way to abuse it. I don't want to live in a society where everything that could be deemed dangerous is banned.
There is a pretty large gap between "let's ban anything in our society that is dangerous" and "let's keep items which were designed almost exlusively to kill things away from your kids."
I didn't say no one should own guns. I said if you aren't resourceful or careful enough to find a way to keep your guns away from your kids, (when they are unsupervised) then you shouldn't own guns.
I understand and agree. I didn't make the jump from your original comment to my last comment. There was some escalation in there. Again, I never meant to imply that you shouldn't be responsible with dangerous items in your house. I'm just saying it's not as simple as blaming that item or a parent for a kid's actions. There are parents who do everything in their power to do right by their children and they still go sideways.
I'm surprised something so politcal is being allowed here (wish it wasn't).
But I think you completely missed the point...
Exchange "knife" for "can of gas" or "homemade bomb" or "vehicle" or "common household cleaning chemicals". There are many ways for a determined individual to inflict mass casualities using common items. I agree that we should be much more worried about the cause here... Rather than the method.
Especially considering the fact that it hasn't even been disclosed (at least to my knowledge) how he got the gun, the rants about parents locking up their guns is totally ridiculous...where did that come from anyway? At least the other poster is on point. It takes a person to load a gun, aim at a person and pull a trigger. If they are determined to kill people they will find a way gun or no gun.
To keep your kids from stealing your silverware and murdering other kids then maybe you should eat with your hands
No one knows where he got the firearm from, yet. I haven't seen it reported.
Secondly the report I read said the the shooter was living with an assortment of relatives, perhaps even bouncing from one home to another.
Lastly the worry about guns is treating a symptom. There are reports, some contradictory at this time, that the kid was a frequent target of bullying. Until something is done in the school system to cut down bullying dramatically, there will always be a kid who decides he can't take it anymore and brings in a gun, knife, or makeshift bomb.
I live in Mentor, OH which is 10 miles from Chardon, OH and even though I'm not personally affected by what happend - moved here from Wisconsin two years ago -, it still touches close to my heart...Prayers to all involved, and a speedy recovery to the children who are still in the hospital.
Very eerie feeling seeing an incident like that take place and thinking that I could have been a part of it. My ex-girlfriend graduated from there about 10 years ago, so Im familiar with the area. Such a sad story, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims.
I feel for the families involved and my sympathies would be extended to them. As to the above debates re gun safety and gun control now is certainly not the time or place. Let's respect these families who have so tragically lost their loved ones in their time of mourning. There is a time and place for that debate but right now is neither the time nor the place.
I live within a hour or so of Chardon and it is so sad that these shootings keep happening. Prayers to all of the families involved.
Really sad... This type of thing will never stop until we enforce stricter gun laws... Too easy for a kid to get their hands on one..
Chardon was in our league growing up (CVC). I've had friends from Chardon, and still have friends and family living there. My sister and brother in law recently moved to a small town about 5 miles away from Chardon. When they made the move, my neice had the opportunity to choose between going to Chardon High or a neighboring district that had open enrollment for all residents of the county, if they were able to provide their own transportation. Thankfully, she chose the other school, or else she would have been there yeaterday. Sadly she and her sister have many many friends who were there, so its awful for them anyhow, Im sure.
Putting it even closer to home, the families of two of the victims live in my Mother-in-law's subdivision, and her husband is friends with one of the families.
Orange has had some scary events recently as well. The bomb threat with the FBI involved was intense. What has happened to our once safe and prestigious suburb....
It's still pretty sheltered over there for the most part. After college, I came back and lived in in an Apt on Chagrin Blvd for a bit, the moved to a house in Lyndhurst.
I think a lot of it has to do with kids being bored. There's just not much to do out that way, and idle hands being the devils playground and all that. I used to throw some rather large social functions back in the day (living on 600 acres makes it easier) and really, that's all there was to do. We couldn't even get a coffee at that place on Chagrin because we weren't old enough (yes, they literally banned anyone under 19 after 7pm). With nowhere to go and not much to do, stupid things start to happen.
I was part of the Orange High School class of '95. I actually grew up in Hunting Valley, but generally dont admit it for a few reasons.
I'm from Euclid and familiar with many kids/grads from Chardon High School. This whole situation is so sad.
The one thing that does disturb me, though, is that this kid put stuff up on FB that indicated severe trouble, but nobody did anything about it. This is where some kind of system is needed where someone can at least try to intervene in the lives of kids publishing things that indicate they may soon be involved in acts of terrorism.
Could intervention such as FB notifying his local police have stopped this? Maybe not. But it would be nice if they had at least tried.
There is such a system in place. It's called actual friends and family actively participating in your life. IMO, it's not Facebook's job, responsibility or right to notify police about posts on their site.
Third student reported dead from injuries.
Thoughts and prayers to the students, victims, and families involved.
I've gotten caught up in the back and forth in this thread. A good friend of my wife and mine is from Chardon and still has family in the area. It is a very sad situation and I pray for comfort to everyone involved.
the bullying finally stopped.
His dysfunctional parental units are responsible for this horror. Unlike driving a car, opening a business or operating a freight train, you don't need a certification or a license to become a parent. With an unregulated industry like parenting, and with rampant divorce, teenage pregnancy, drug-abuse, alcoholism, medical disabilities and chronic unemployment, the school district is not going to fill the gaps left by incompetent parents. No freaking way.
I'm afraid, we are going to have to accept a growing number of children perpetrating violent crimes like this in the future. Especially when the overwhelming response to these new types of bullying is, "not my child".
No, your child too.
You cant even feel safe at school, so sad.
You cant even feel safe at school, so sad.
If you are, your statement reads like this is a change as if people used to feel safe at school. If that was what you were saying, I have to ask if you have been living under a rock.
Schools are a lot of things, but safe hasn't been one of them for a very long time. Whether it is kids getting bullied/threatened or if it is kids getting shot/stabbed, schools have been anything but safe for a very long time.
I came from a pretty small town (pop. 30,000) and went to a small high school (1000 kids) and even in that environment school was about the most unsafe environment a child (teenager) faced. I was fortunate enough to be one of the popular kids because I played on many of the sports teams but I saw what it was like for others.
I remember three kids specifically who got picked on relentlessly in high school, two of which were my age and came through school with me. One had special needs and the other was just a very shy very overweight loaner. The third guy I didn't know very well because he was younger than I was but he was picked on as much as the other two.
From the time I was a kid my Dad taught me the harm bullying can cause. He went to school with a boy who committed suicide when he 11 years old because kids picked on him. Dad told me he always tried to befriend the kid and include him in their activities as much as he could. Even knowing he wasn't one of the people bullying him, that plagued my father for decades.
After watching these two boys who I grew up with get picked on for so many years one day I simply had enough. Me and a bunch of the other hockey players were standing in the hall (lining the corridor on each side) and skippy (the special needs kid) walked by. One of the guys flung him across the corridor into one of the other players who flung him back and they continued this right down the hall (they called it ping pong or something...i forget).
I looked at the poor kids face and saw the fear in his eyes and it was more than I could take. My desire to be liked was finally overtaken by something I knew was wrong for a very long time. I grabbed the guy who initiated the shoving and gave him a pretty good beating. It wasn't much of a sacrifice on my part as he was one of the few guys on the team I didn't really like anyway. I got suspended for a few days, but when I told my Dad what had happened he was as proud as if I had just brought home a report card with straight A's.
My opportunity to stand up for the other guy (the chubby kid) came only shortly after I had come back from suspension. This time the bully wasn't an aquaintance, so sticking up for him was even easier.
We were walking out of the school to get on the bus and there was a pretty big hill going from the school down ot hte parking lot. A guy who was notorious for picking on these types of kids (a bully in every sense of the word) grabbed Stacey (I know right....fat, a loaner and a boy with a name Stacey, the poor kid didn't have a chance) and threw him down the hill. Of course many people saw this and laughed as Stacey lay there in the mud.
I took him by the arm and helped him up and at that point people stopped laughing. When people saw it was me helping him up and remembered what recently happened to the guy who picked on Skippy the crowd quickly dispersed and I walked Stacey to the bus. When he got on I told him to meet me at the steps the next day about five minutes before dismissal.
When he met me he looked a little confused and asked what I wanted. I told him to just wait with me and he'd see. When the bell rang and everyone was leaving we waited until I saw Chris (the bully) and I grabbed him as he was walking past. I held him at the top of the hill and called Stacey over.
People started to notice that something was brewing so everyone stopped to watch. I told Stacey to give him a boot in the ass as hard as he could (to send him flying down the hill the wat Stacey had the day before). He was scared of what the reprecussions might be so I looked at Chris and told him what was going to happen if he even looked at Stacey (or anyone else) the wrong way again. That gave Stacey the nerve he needed and he unloaded on the guy.
Chris went flying down the hill and landed in the same pile of mud. I thought that was going to be it (and so did everyone else) and the kids actually started clapping for Stacey. I was feeling so good about what had just transpired that I didn't notice that Stacey went flying down the hill and was putting a thrashing on Chris. It reminded me of the Christmas Story where Ralphie was beating Scott Farkas. He was just out of his mind, paying Chris back for years of bullying. After a few minutes I pulled Stacey off and took him to his bus.
It was after that day that bullying (for the most part) in our school seemed to disappear. Once people realized that the "popular" kids weren't impressed by bullying and even more, were sticking up for the people being bullied, it curbed the problem dramatically.
Now the third kid, the one I didn't know very well and didn't have the opportunity to stand up for (Ian) he brought a knife to school and stabbed the guy that was bullying him in the bathroom....
Now this story wasn't meant to pat myself on the back by any means. I waited a long time and witnessed many kids getting bullied before I finally took a stand. My point is that schools haven't been safe places for a long long time. For some lucky ones it is....but for many, schools might as well be prisons.
Bullying is a huge problem in schools and kids need to start standing up to these bullies. Not the kids getting bullied, they are scared for the lives in many cases...it is the popular kids who have to make a stand for those other kids who don't feel they have a voice. I don't mean wearing the damned pink shirts either. I don't mean bully the bullies either, just one good beating to show them it won't be tolerated anymore.
I am glad you were able to work through the problems at your school. I got the crap beat out of me in Jr High by a bully. Part of it was that I was a turd physically at that age and he was like 15 in the sixth grade. I survived partly due to good parenting from my dad and stepmom.
I know I sound like a "get off my lawn" guy but I think one problem is social media. I'm not in the schools yet, my daughter is two, but I can imagine kids saying all kinds of crap about each other behind the security of their computer/smart phone. I think it's harder to deal with that bullying because it's nearly impossible to defend yourself verbally and intellectually against someone with that mindset (it's like talking sense to an Ohio fan). Not sure what the answer is. If you figure it out let me know so I can give my daughter advice when she gets older.
Best wishes to those that weren't hurt in this tragedy and condolences to the family and friends to all of those were taken from this world at entirely to young of an age. Parents should never have to bury their children.