Hopefully I'm not alone in wanting Texas out..Go Baltimore..
OT: MLB one game Wildcard times 2 Open Thread
After the ALCS last season and Detroit's performance against them this season, I find them surprisingly scary as well. Baltimore just doesn't frighten me as much Texas does even though they seem to find some way to screw it all up when it matters the most.
At first was a good one. Gutsy and correct
LOL if the Cards rip the hearts out of the Braves again (even though I'm rooting for ATL).
The Cards are made of magic. The first year baseball changes it's rules, of course the Cards sneak into the 5th spot, causing every fan of an opposing national league playoff team to curse the gods.
Anyone going to the game tomorrow?
4-2 Cards as Holliday goes yard in top of 6
I consider myself a baseball fan, but I have a hard time watching two teams that I have no connection with play. That is until the playoffs roll around and I could sit and watch every game.
Here's a look at the World Series and Pennants.
Odds to win the 2012 World Series
Odds to win the 2012 AL Pennant
Odds to win the 2012 NL Pennant
TBS just plugged Bleacher Report's new app.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore
Bring back the reverse psychology for the wild card game.
Piece of #$%^ orioles don't have a $%#^& chance
Braves are self destructing. The young fella at short is really having a tough game
5-2 Cards in the 7th as 2 Braves errors lead to another run.
EDIT: another run scores from 2nd on an infield single in the 7th, and as we head to the bottome of 7, Cards 6 Braves 2
Of course the Braves (top defensive team in the bigs) are having far and away their worst defensive game of the year against the Cards.
I really like Chipper and would love to see him go out a winner, but if I had to root for an NL team, it would be the Fighting Matheneys, so go Cards!
Braves pick up a run in bottom of 7 and threaten for more but fail
6-3 Cards as we head to inning 8
Even when something bad happens to the Cards it ends up working in their favor.
Now Atlanta fans are throwing stuff all over the field.
WOW. How is that an infield fly rule? Can someone explain that?
Stuff being thrown on the field everywhere.
Yes, a 200-foot "infield" fly. That might be the worst call of the season.
No way that is infield fly rule. Terrible, terrible call.
Absolutely no way that isn't an infield fly--I have no idea why anyone who knew the rule would think otherwise.
The second baseman is under the pop. It makes absolutely no difference, under the rule, where the ball is, as long as the infielder can easily make the play.
The only reason there's a debate here is that we have Braves announcers doing the game--they don't know the rule and they have reason not to want to.
He was not under it. He was running out to it.
Before he ran away from it he was standing about two feet from where it landed.
The idea of the infield fly rule is to stop infielders from dropping a pop up and turning a double play. Clearly in this instance, had the Shortstop intentionally dropped the ball in shallow left field, he would have had no chance of turning a double play. Horrible call
Baseball rules don't allow for that kind of interpretation. Umpires are instructed to apply the letter of the law, not to make a determination of the reason for the rule and change it accordingly.
That's not an interpretation, that's the reason for the rule. That's why it's not restricted to the infield proper.
The ump made a terrible call. The SS was not under it yet. Most importantly, the call was made late. If it was made with proper timing, I'd have no issue.
Cards fan? The infield fly rule is supposed to be applied to ordinary catches so that you can't intentionally drop an easy catch and get a double/triple play. It was pretty obvious that the shortstop didn't feel comfortable with the catch and miscommunication between him and the left fielder caused the ball to drop. That kind of thing happens all the time.
if he was standing under it why let your LF call u off? and if the SS actually heard the ump, once again if he was underneath the ball, why duck out the way. The rule is the rule but their is to much room for judgement. they need to rewrite it so that umps judgement is limited.
Again, it's the outfielder's ball if he calls for it and as an infielder it doesn't matter if you're camped under it waiting for it to come down, when you hear him call you're out of there. Plenty of time later in the dugout to argue if you think he made the wrong call--your immediate job is to avoid the collision and that means not being where the ball is about to be caught.
I put this comment in the wrong place; relocated.
And it was the Shortstop, and both runners were able to advance so there was zero chance for a double play even if dropped intentionally
So did the replacement refs find some new jobs? That was horrid...
that was awful
Wow, that was just an awful call. I don't even blame the Atlanta fans for throwing stuff on the field...
An INFIELD FLY is a fair fly ball (not including a line drive nor an attempted bunt) which can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort, when first and second, or first, second and third bases are occupied, before two are out. The pitcher, catcher and any outfielder who stations himself in the infield on the play shall be considered infielders for the purpose of this rule.
Does anyone actually think Kozma couldn't have caught the ball with ordinary effort, if he hadn't ducked away from it? He was standing right where it landed.
I'll grant you that it should have been called much earlier.
The guy was in left field. He was not in the infield.
By rule. Even an outfielder can be under it and it would be called.
If it was in the infield, which it was not.
no they cant
the ball must be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort
"can be caught", not "must be caught". The infielder does not have to actually make the play; once it's clear he could the call is made.
If he could have made the catch why didn't he? The call was so late the shortstop couldn't have known it was an infield fly. He was never under the ball seeing as he stopped and the ball landed beyond him.
I would like to hear of one instance in Major League history where SS ran that far out into the outfield, then intentionally dropped a ball, because he was thinking he was going to turn two. Ludicrous
He ran away from it thinking he'd been called off by the left fielder. He's under it with his glove up, then at the last moment he flinches and moves a few feet back towards the infield and toward the foul line to get out of the way.
Live I thought maybe he'd heard something from the stands and thought it was his outfielder. Watching it again I wonder if it was the umpire he heard. He ducks away just as the left field ump puts up his hand and makes the call.
Exactly. The SS never had time to establish himself under the ball because had to run so far. When he heard something he thought it was the left fielder calling him off. That doesn't look like an ordinary/easy catch. It looks like an infielder running far into the outfield and then the ball dropping due to miscommunication between the infielder and outfielder.
It doesn't matter if you're established under the ball or not; it's the outfielder's ball if he calls it and if you hear him you get the hell out of the way. Infielders get called off balls they're underneath all the time--if you have a choice you always want the player moving in on the ball to make the play because it's an easier throw for him.
It looked weird here because the outfielder wasn't actually there and wasn't the one calling, but the shortstop doesn't know that. He's doing what he's supposed to do, looking up at the ball and assuming it's his until he hears a call.
The SS was moving the entire time, the ONLY instant he stopped was when he planted his foot to reverse coarse. He was never UNDER anything. Also, the umps arm didn't even begin to go up to make the call until the SS was already pulling off the play. If the ump sees him pull off, the call cannot be made.
Aside from the question of his positioning under the ball, the call must also satisfy the NORMAL PLAY rule, which intends to keep him from purposefully NOT MAKING the normal play, i.e. dropping on purpose to get additional outs. Where that play occured, it would have been impossible to do, as proven by the fact that everyone still advnaced without so much as a throw.
If it had been the LF settling under, no call. Why? Because NO ONE in their right mind would have deemed the NORMAL PLAY to be at risk for gaining additional outs from there.
Bottom line... BAD CALL.
I played center field. :)
And never had to get out of anyone's way.
He doesn't have to be in the infield; he just has to be stationed as an infielder when the pitch is made.
This used to be, and probably still is, a standard question on umpire school quizzes. It does not matter where the ball is hit; in fact one of the standard versions has the outfielder calling the infielder off and making the catch himself. Once it's clear the infielder can get unfrt ball (he's not making the play on the run) the call should be made.
By your definition then every flyball to the outfield should be an infield fly rule.
If an infielder runs out and gets under it. This seldom happens.
It's also not "my definition"--it's the definition in the rule book.
With "ordinary effort" which a infielder running into left field is not ordinary effort. The guy was well into left field on that play. There is no way that should have been called.
It's a routine call. They don't let you become an umpire if you wouldn't make that call.
Honest to god, hasn't anyone here been to umpire school?
Again, it's completely true that the call should have been made earlier and there would have been a lot less confusion and controversy if they'd done it correctly. I'm not defending that.
If it was routine, we'd see it called all the time on popups to the shallow outfield instead of never. The umps blew it since there was no ordinary effort and then blew it worse by waiting to make the call.
It is called all the time on popups to the shallow outfield. Nobody pays any attention most of the time because the infielder catches the ball.
I should know better than to argue about baseball rules on a football blog.
Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder, not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpires judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder.
It was misapplied
And, despite what you claim, the umps are not routinely calling a ball hit that far into the outfield an infield fly. That is why the 3rd base ump didn't make the call. He only responded after the lf ump made the late call.
I saw it happen several times this year, and on balls the infielder was less clearly underneath than this one. You don't usually see it on television because the umpires aren't on screen, but if you're at the park when an infielder gets called off a high shallow pop in an infield fly situation you'll see one of the base umpires with his hand in the air making the out call.
Nobody comments and hardly anyone notices because it very rarely affects the play.
The funny thing about all this is that if I'm right and it was the umpire's late call that the shortstop thought had called him off, the Braves actually wound up benefiting from it by having both baserunners move up.
That call completley violates the manner in which the rule is supposed to be called.
Hypothetically, if a hitter skies a ball 1000ft into the air and the short stop runs all the way to the wall, and stands under it for a good few seconds before the ball falls, you could technically call infield fly, but it would be wrong.
The ball was well into the out field and umps are supposed to make the call immediately, not wait until the last moment.
the rule is in place so that a double play can not be turned by dropping a fly ball. it is suppose to protect the team batting.
No way in hell they would have turned a double play by dropping the fly ball
It was not a play of ordinary effort. The ss had to turn and sprint into shallow left in an attempt to make the catch. Horrible, unjustifiable call.
wtf is going on... i only have gameday
Wow just wow. Selig must have felt he was losing the least liked commisioner race wtih Bettman, Goodell and Stern.
(yes replay would never have overturned a call like that but whatever BLAME SELIG!)
Crazy, the fans are actually causing enough havoc that the Cardinals have to make a pitching change.
In all my years of watching baseball, I have never seen anything remotely like this. This is batshit crazy.
The infield fly rule has gotta be the worst rule in sports.
There is good intention behind it and it is needed really. Otherwise you'll have people dropping it on purpose to get cheap double plays. The issue in this case is that the umps completely ignored the intent of the infield fly rule.
Well theres a real simple fix to it, if the fielder drops the ball then the runners can advance and the play is called dead.
"One umpire was just hit with a small liquor bottle"
Those pesky southerners sneakin in their liquor
Are they doing the FSU chant thing? I don't get it...
Not a baseball fan are ya?
It's a Braves tradition.
Soooo... FSU copied the Braves or did the Braves copy FSU?
IIRC, Atlanta incorporated it when Deion Sanders (FSU of course) was drafted by the Braves. So it was sort of a merging of the two teams, but it did originate at FSU.
Shades of the 1934 World Series when Tiger fans became incensed by Cardinal Joe "ducky" Medwick and pelted the field with all sorts of things on the field, including fruits and vegetables. I guess it was a much healthier group attending games back in '34.
In the sixth inning of Game 7, Joe Medwick slid hard into Marv Owen, the Tigers' third baseman, after hitting a triple. They tangled briefly, and when Medwick went to his position in left field, the Detroit fans, knowing the game was lost (the score was 9–0 by then), vented their frustrations on Medwick, throwing fruit, vegetables, bottles, cushions, etc., at him. Commissioner Landis ordered Medwick (and Owen) benched to end the ruckus. Newsreel footage shows Medwick slamming his glove onto the dugout bench in disgust.
I knew I had seen footage of this somewhere. If you go to the 7:30 mark of this video, you will see Tiger fans throwing junk into the outfield. Looks alot like what happened in Atlanta today.
That is awesome footage. Thanks for sharing it.
But the actions of the fans were worse.
The poetry of baseball: It comes down to Chipper Jones.
Yikes, another wrong call.... The Braves live and Chipper finishes, maybe, his career with a hit.
Anyone notice that some of TBS' graphics are of the interior of Comerica Park? Kinda cool if you notice it.
Any chance anything actually comes of it?
Not a rule i actually understand, if its protested why do they keep playing? In this game why not get an immediate ruling from Selig?
A protested game is played to completion and then the protest is considered. They'd usually have 24 hours to consider it but in an elimination playoff game I'm guessing we'll have a response tonight.
If it's upheld, they could require the game to be picked up at the point of the protest.
It won't be.
I hope the protest does go through and they have to replay the last few innings, that was an AWFUL call.
There isn't even any grounds for a protest; though it isn't the umpires' call to determine that and they have to accept the protest and pass it through to the league.
The dispute here is over whether or not the shortstop could have made the play with ordinary effort. The umpire's judgment on that point is final and can't be overturned.
A misapplication of the rule, like sending the runners back to their original bases or calling an infield fly when there were two out or there weren't runners on first and second, could be protested. The umpires judgment can't be.
On stuff about Braun and games that were protested.
Has baseball ever actually overturned/replayed portions of a game? Seems like the finishing of a game sets it up to never overturn the call.
(1) the pine tar game. Brett was awarded the homer and the game was picked up from that point.
(2) Pittsburgh protested a game in the 80s because the umpires called the game for rain too quickly (with the Pirates behind)--apparently there are rules in place mandating a minimum length of rain delay before a game can be declared final.
Apparently this is a complete list.
Good stuff, and a good reminder of how loose things were in the old days. I especially liked this one from 1921:
On May 28, CIN at PIT in the bottom of the 8th Ron notes: "On the play at the plate, Luque made the tag, but got so mad at the safe call he threw the ball into the Reds dugout! Someone threw it out to Wingo and the rundown on Barnhart started! The Pirates complained, but the umps ruled in favor of the Reds!" The game was replayed from this point after the league President ruled that the assistance from the dugout was a little too much. The New York Times story on the game played the next day by the same two teams notes another interesting fate of a ball: "The ninth inning was featured by a freak home run when Barnhart's hit into right field went under a roll of canvass. The ball was recovered by a small boy, who fled with it, and the hit went for a homer". Apparently there was no protest about this!
The Reds might have protested Barnhart's homer when it happened, but since they eventually won the game in the 13th there would have been no reason to pursue it.
That's one of the odd things about baseball's protest system--if the protest has merit, by first finishing the game and then replaying it they basically give the protesting team two chances to win.
Is there some sort of sick, twisted, science experiment to see how many ways the Cards can dong punch the Braves going on?
In other baseball news: O's and Rangers tied at one after two
Obviously not going to change one another's minds, but I'm a Braves fan who is saddened. That call sucked and was wrong no matter who was playing. It's all over the social media's and what not and Card's fans and others will feel the right call was made; again, no changing of minds will be had. Howevaaaa, the Braves, true to form, pissed away their chances when they had them (on defense as well). Adios Larry Jr.. I grew up with the guy, so it'll be weird next year without No. 10 in the lineup.
Camped under the ball seems to be what's under interpretation. Running 25 yards to the ball and being there for a second, before ducking out & thinking he was called off, is not camped. As others have noted, especially when the LF could have caught the ball routinely (though, yes, that has nothing to do with the rule). I feel it was poorly interpreted by the umpire - who usually isn't even positioned there in normal games.
Also: Atlanta fans were bad boys and girls, yes, but think if this would have taken place in Philly (or maybe even Boston)!! Wowzer
I'm also a Braves fan and I think the fans were also upset about the interference call from earlier. While that was probably the correct call, I think the larger takeaway from this whole thing is that the new playoff format is horrible for the game. Baseball is not supposed to be played one game at a time, and this latest debacle is one of many reasons why that is the case.
This I completely agree with. One-game baseball playoffs are an abomination. It's bad enough when they're used to settle a season-long tie (the NL used to play best-of-three) but at least then there's the plausible explanation that they're just extending the season an extra day.
Building it into the ordinary playoff routine is absurd. But I suppose they've got us where they want us, in front of a television....
The Braves lost the high ground when their fans acted like a pack of drunken rednecks. And the call, though iffy at best, did not determine the game.
I'm pretty sure throwing the ball around like the 2006 Tigers did them in.
I couldn't find a place to put this in the whole Yeoman debate, but here it is:
This was an historically bad call for at least two reasons:
1) the rule calls that an infielder must be able to make the play in routine fashion (I believe the rule uses "ordinary" but it basically the same thing). When an infielder is that deep in the outfielder and there is a communication error, there is NOTHING routine about that play.
2) The infield fly should be called IMMEDIATELY. This is to allow the defense to play the ball appropriately and also to limit the bounds of the play; if it is unclear whether or not the infield fly rule is applicapble immediately after the ball is batted, then it is not supposed to be ruled as such. The fact that it is required to be declared immediately is designed as a check against such egregiously bad calls as this one.
And to add, I have been trained as an umpire and I played 2B and SS for a total of 14 years. That is not a routine play. The ball was batted into what is essentially no man's land. These are major league baseball players having trouble judging the location of the ball and trouble communicating who should field it.
O's take lead in top of 6. 2-1 Orioles
Huge Michigan fan and Muskegon native, Nate McLouth, gets a big 2 out single to extend O's lead to 3-1, as game goes to bottom 7