OT: LA Lakers close out series over Denver, move on to NBA Finals (LBJ’s 10th appearance)
Lakers win 117-107 (4-1 series win) led by LBJ with 38 pts, 16 rebs, and 10 assists.
This will be Lebron’s 10th finals appearance - trailing only Sam Jones with 11 and some dude named Bill Russell with 12.
September 27th, 2020 at 7:21 AM ^
Why the downvotes? This is hilarious. A couple of "SC" dorks getting ready to beat a topic ("LeBron" ... one word is easier to recognize and digest) to death for the benefit of their impressionable, slack-jawed audience.
Also: I'd concede that LeBron is a little insecure. He may not be the "GOAT." I still think he takes way too much shit.
September 27th, 2020 at 12:23 AM ^
Jordan’s still better.
September 27th, 2020 at 1:24 AM ^
LeBron is the King of the NBA right now. 10 NBA Championship appearances in today’s game, on 3 different teams, is absolutely insane. I am a former LeBron hater, but nobody has done it at this level for longer. Jordan is still the GOAT, but LeBron is right behind in the 2 spot now.
September 27th, 2020 at 4:44 AM ^
For me, the difference in players is a tossup. Otherwise I lean to LeBron because he seems more personable, less arrogant and controlled/controlling. However, I admit that's an assessment based on glancing celebrity impressions, which are notoriously unreliable.
September 27th, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^
Lebron goes with the breeze. MJ did and said what he believed, but stayed out of politics.
September 27th, 2020 at 2:21 PM ^
Eh, Lebron is a mercenary, and always works to get on a stacked team. My list;
1. MJ, by far
2. Kobe
3. Kareem
4. Lebron
5. Bird/Bill Russel/Magic
6. Pippen
September 27th, 2020 at 6:57 PM ^
The Lakers aren’t stacked. They have Lebron and AD...and a bunch of old vets with experience that nobody else wanted, but come crunch time are playing out of their minds. And Pippen at 6, I can’t take you seriously.
September 27th, 2020 at 9:43 AM ^
Apples and Oranges.
Jordan had the drive that no one can match. In a league of competitors, he was the uber competitor. He was also a ridiculous athlete, combining power and grace in a rare way.
LeBron is much more like Magic Johnson, but bigger and stronger. Less of an asshole than Jordan. But just as much basketball acumen I would say.
Both are amazing. I'm happy to have lived through both of their times in the NBA. What's funny is that both of them got a lot of shit from the media until they started winning. Many people won't remember, but when Jordan was losing to the Celtics and Pistons, he was considered a "flashy" player who couldn't win when it counted.
September 27th, 2020 at 10:15 AM ^
Mr. Sheen,
You make good points. But I've wondered about the "ultimate competitor" thing. While that certainly seems to be the case in basketball (and poker), Jordan didn't have that reputation in baseball or as an owner, where others worked harder and were more driven to succeed.
I've played guys in basketball who are better than me. (Actually that's the norm.) But the ones who seem most driven are usually the most athletic, which suggests their competitiveness is mostly expecting to win because they usually won, thanks to their athleticism.
So how much do you think Jordan's competitiveness was innate drive and how much was a function of his ridiculous athleticism? (I'm not criticizing Jordan or disagreeing with you, but simply curious what you think.)
Mr. Gallagher
September 27th, 2020 at 1:54 PM ^
Dear Mr. Vet/Gallagher -
These are good questions. As a person possessing only the most modest of athletic skills, I must say, personal experience cannot help me to answer your query.
I do think MJ and really all the greats are incredibly driven. There is story after story of the first person to show up in the practice facility being Larry Bird, Magic, Lebron, MJ, Kobe.
I do think there is a virtuous cycle at work, which is perhaps your point. Those that are great often see that if they put in the time, they become greater. So they put in more time. And they become even better. And it continues.
But somehow I do get the sense that MJ was relentless in his competitiveness. The recent documentary (or more, hagiography) showcases it, but really there are so many examples that I am inclined to believe them.
have a good one!
-SHS
September 27th, 2020 at 11:26 PM ^
SHS,
If we were just talking basketball, I'd totally agree with you, about the virtuous circle. (Nice phrase.) Athleticism breeds success breeds competitiveness breeds success, etc. However, as I mentioned, there seemed to be little of that in baseball. He's a great athlete and worked hard but he got little praise for amazing competitiveness. Same thing with ownership: though it's not athleticism, I've not encountered any praise for his competitiveness in that role either, not like Pat Riley, for instance.
At the same time, I don't have any greater insight about Jordan's personality than any of us mere mortals.
BVet
September 27th, 2020 at 11:08 AM ^
They both play great defense, meaning get away with a lot of fouls.
September 27th, 2020 at 1:36 PM ^
Ah, a cynic in the house.
But I agree with you. Though I understand officiating will always have a significant human element, including human error, it surprises me that leagues don't do more to fight against the more obvious biases, like officials being swayed by the home crowd or giving stars more favorable calls. Those biases are obvious, and provable, yet leagues act as if they don't occur.
September 27th, 2020 at 12:30 AM ^
Hopefully Duncan & crew make it to the finals and make it 3-7 for lebron.
September 27th, 2020 at 4:45 AM ^
Heat 'em up!
September 27th, 2020 at 1:25 AM ^
Go Nuggets, hell of a run.
September 27th, 2020 at 3:55 AM ^
There were moments during the series that Lebron was being too deliberate, often settling for what Denver gave him and not playing with thrust (a... unique Pelinka term), and even Laker cognoscenti weren't sure if Playoff LeBron was a sure thing. Turns out it still is.
It's been truly a treat to watch him and Anthony Davis together. If you had to engineer the perfect complementary star to pair with LeBron, it'd pretty much be him. I'm a distinct minority here, but this Laker team's run has been a much welcome and lonesome spot of joy and happiness during a pretty damn miserable and dystopic year and for that I am grateful. On to #17
September 27th, 2020 at 11:41 AM ^
I think the bigger surprise to most casual fans is the Lakers depth at Guard. Playoff Rondo has been a very real thing, Alex Caruso is worth 10+ million per year and KCP has been lights out as a shooter.
September 27th, 2020 at 12:39 PM ^
I might argue that, if anything, that Playoff Rondo’s emergence was an even bigger surprise to people who had covered the team because for most of the season, he was bad. A necessary evil to be sure, because of the lack of other ball handlers but far more evil than necessary. Caruso has been what I thought, the only question was whether he’d carry it into the bubble, and KCP has elevated his level of play.
The narrative that the other 13 Lakers are scrubs has been shown to be quite overblown. Now, to be sure, their combined PER is probably less than that of other playoff teams, but they have mostly excelled at being stars in their roles.
September 27th, 2020 at 12:44 PM ^
I'd have to agree as an avid Laker fan that Rondo was quite bad during the regular season. My biggest surprise with Rondo is how he's elevated his defense during the playoffs. He absolutely disrupted Murray while defending him, coming up with several on-ball steals and forcing him into bad shots. That was shocking to me.
But yes, exclusive of Laker fans, a guy like Caruso was largely considered a bum. Reality is he's close to being an All NBA level defender that is electric in transition and has made strides as an on-ball playmaker and moves tirelessly without the ball. KCP was pretty consistent as a shooter all year IMO, with a considerable uptick in the playoffs.
September 27th, 2020 at 4:37 AM ^
Very impressive.
September 27th, 2020 at 7:28 AM ^
3-6 in the Finals?
Bill Russell 11-1, Sam Jones 10-1 and Jordan 6-0 are much more impressive to me.
Buffalo Bills made it to four straight Super Bowls losing all four.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:10 AM ^
Only 3 NBA “franchises” have been to the NBA finals more than LeBron James. Only 3 other players have been to 10 or more NBA Finals. I used to be you, I was team Kobe, and MJ is the greatest. But look what this dude has done at this level for so long and it is insane. MJ will always be the GOAT to me, but LeBron has secured #2 for me.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
I typically don't like to get involved in the GOAT conversation because it's all subjective and there are legit arguments to be made for roughly 5-8 players.
What I will say is that while Lebron making it to the Finals 10 times is absolutely incredible, he beat 13 teams at or below .500 on his way to the Finals. In essence, getting to the finals for Lebron has largely been void of legit competition in the East until now. So for me, his 3-6 record is a bit more indicative.
No question about it, Lebron James is a top 5 player to ever roam the earth, but his resume may require a bit more work. Win the trophy this year, and he inches closer to the top.
September 27th, 2020 at 4:05 PM ^
We've had an awful lot of great players who were never positioned to win championships, or to win repeatedly. After the stats are sifted, the conversation will always be concluded a little bit subjectively. MJ is for me the most transcendent player the NBA has seen. But if I were looking to put together a team, I might pick James. The guy just does so many things so well.
September 27th, 2020 at 7:05 AM ^
Seemed essentially pre-ordained the Lakers would get to this point. They’ve got the whole “Go out and win one for Kobe” mindset (my god does bud untimely death feel like an eternity ago).
September 27th, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
If you had told me Kobe died five years ago, I'd believe it. 2020 has been that long.
September 27th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^
Pre-ordained, except for the fair weather, bandwagon fans and members of the media that crowned the Clippers the new Kings of LA. LMFAO. Go Lakers!
September 27th, 2020 at 12:55 PM ^
I said all year (and in pre-season), the Clippers were poorly constructed. They had no point guard and lacked a playable big. Most casual fans, and pundits, only account for offense because of the Warriors run. But those pundits miscalculated what having 3 of the top 20 players in the world means, rather than 2. Having 2 of the top 20 players likely means you don't have enough firepower to overcome incompetent defensive players that are closers such as Lou Williams, Reggie Jackson, Zubac, Morris (at the 5).
Basically, the Clippers thought process aligned with small-ball/analytics/3s>2s that doesn't really work in the playoffs exclusive of the Warriors (with KD) run. Generally speaking, elite defense + paint production is the formula for playoff success.
September 27th, 2020 at 7:02 PM ^
What are you talking about? The Clippers had a great team, a championship coach and added a top 3 player and a top 10-15 player. The reason they didn’t do well is because they tried load management, and before they could really gel, the pandemic hit. Then they had 8 games in a bubble to learn how to play together, which was not enough time. The Lakers played together all year and found their rhythm. Can’t believe I am defending the Clippers sorry ass franchise.
September 27th, 2020 at 7:20 PM ^
Definitely have to disagree here. As you say the Clippers essentially brought back the same team as last year, and added Kawhi and PG. While the Lakers basically turned over the entire roster. One can not utilize ‘gelling’ as the logic in this case when the Lakers had FAR less familiarity with one another in relation to the Clippers.
The truth is the Clippers were a poor defensive team with fatal flaws at the center and point guard spots. They had multiple players on the floor that were hunted possession after possession when it mattered in Lou Williams, Marcus Morris, Reggie Jackson and Zubac.
Just too many defensive holes that ended up making the Clippers 11 out of 16 in Def FG% and 9th in points in the paint allowed in the playoffs.
Basically it’s impossible to win vs legit comp with a 6’8 and under lineup featuring an incompetent defender in Lou Williams, particularly with a suspect coach in Doc Rivers that has blown a 3-1 lead in the NBA playoffs on THREE occasions.
September 28th, 2020 at 12:58 AM ^
The Lakers did have far less familiarity with one another, but they all played together the entire season long...and avoided major injuries (except Rondo). The Clippers were never full strength this season before the Pandemic hit, and never developed chemistry...it was due partially to their load management strategy, partially to unfortunate injuries, and then the season was put in pause. Load management backfired for them, and the break in the season benefitted the old Lakers players, who had played well together and had a minute to get fresh legs.
September 27th, 2020 at 7:58 AM ^
What I admire about the Lakers is the total destruction of analytic-driven, small ball lineups by dominating their competition in the paint with superior size and athleticism.
As for the Nuggets, they’re a good team that’s a few pieces away. As good as Jokic is, he’s a liability on defense. Nuggets need to upgrade with a legit wing player that can both score and defend to compliment Grant, because Gary Harris and MPJ are both one-way players.
I’ve been beating this drum all year - for all the ‘Lakers have no guard depth’ talk, I seriously suggest watching Alex Caruso closely. Likely the most undervalued player in the league right now.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:10 AM ^
Alex Caruso is a fun, fun player. Looks like the guy standing on the sideline who they brought into the pickup game to make five for a squad. Plays with ridiculous self-assurance.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^
I'll continue to say it - solid positional size, good lateral movement and plus athleticism combined with motor are going to allow for success over skill in most cases. Alex Caruso checks all those boxes, defends his ass of, finishes at the rim very well and is growing rapidly as a playmaker. You have to give the Lakers scouting department a TON of credit. Some of the players the Lakers have drafted/signed as undrafted FAs in the last 5 years that have outperformed their draft positions:
Alex Caruso
Josh Hart
Mo Wagner
Jordan Clarkson
Kyle Kuzma
Talen Horton Tucker
Larry Nance
Zubac
I'd put their scouting/draft dept. up there with any team in the league. They've done an incredible job of identifying undervalued talent that outperforms their contracts to round out the Lebron-AD tandem.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:36 AM ^
That list doesn't compare to Milwaukee, Denver, Indiana, Toronto, etc. Lmao. They have 2 players they have drafted in rotation and both suck.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:44 AM ^
We must be watching a different game. But that's the beauty of sport, we're all all entitled to our opinion. The Lakers have experienced ridiculous success in the draft/signed undrafted FAs in recent years. Simply not debatable.
September 27th, 2020 at 12:49 PM ^
The biggest flaw in Caruso’s game to me is that he cannot create his own shot and, to some extent, I think you can extrapolate that across most of the rest of the Lakers roster. However what you can also say about all of them is it they’ve all bought in to Frank Vogel‘s defensive scheme and they all rotate intelligently on defense
So when we throw in LeBron and A.D. who are both obviously elite shot creators then you have a very complete formula for a championship team, which is why they’re there and the Clippers are in Cancun.
September 27th, 2020 at 1:11 PM ^
On point again, I'd have to agree. I think where Caruso has made his most progress is an on-ball playmaker for others. I've been pleasantly surprised with his vision in PnR and in isolation situation in the playoffs. A 16.2 assist rate is pretty damn good for a 3rd/4th guard that is a very good defender.
And yeah, I've always been of the mindset that elite defense>elite offense. I learned that painfully in 2008. When the Lakers signed Dwight Howard my initial thought was "LA will have the best rim protection in the world with great off-ball perimeter defenders in Green and Caruso", despite everyone else laughing at the signing. A year later Howard largely mitigated Jokic and the Lakers are in the Finals. It was just a matter of whether AD was ready for prime time..............and he's having a historic playoff run and entering the conversation for best player in the world.
September 27th, 2020 at 12:42 PM ^
Caruso has been so steady and clutch for the Lakers, and playoff Rondo has been playing out of his kind.
September 27th, 2020 at 8:35 AM ^
Stop putting all the info in the title please. Not everyone has the opportunity to watch all of these games live and I come here for Michigan sports.
just put a tease in the headline so readers need to click.
you successfully shit on my morning during my morning shit.
September 27th, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^
Totally OT as it relates to this topic, but watching these playoffs closely I think the Will Tschetter Offer/commitment is making more sense now.
Tschetter doesn’t really fit the mold of player that Juwan Howard has pursued at Michigan, but he definitely has some similarities to a player that Howard coached on the Heat......Kelly Olynk.
Lots of overlap there as an undersized 5 that doesn’t move well, but presents a matchup problem depending on the opposition with the ability to space the floor. May provide a glimpse into how Coach Howard views his role - backup big that is matchup oriented.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:05 AM ^
Murray and Jokic were there 2 most entertaining players to watch this playoffs, though they ran out of gas this series (especially Jokic). Sad they're out of the playoffs.
I'm not a big fan of LeBron's bullyball style of play or his on-court attitude - constantly whining to the refs, moreso than almost any other player. At least Davis doesn't piss me off, which makes the Lakers barely watchable for me.
Will definitely be pulling for the Heat.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
Jokic has elite skill level, particularly as a passer. But as I anticipated, once Vogel went with Howard in the starting lineup, this series was over because he completely took Jokic out of his comfort zone. The Lakers are the one team in the league (Now that Bucks are gone) that have a stable of bigs that can switch, protect the rim, wall-up in the paint and dominate the glass.
I have to say though, while I'm not a particularly big Lebron fan, Jokic complains to the refs more than any player I've ever viewed. The difference between Jokic and Lebron, is that the refs are able to take Jokic out of his game, whereas Lebron raises his level of play when he feels he's been slighted by the officiating.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:33 AM ^
"I have to say though, while I'm not a particularly big Lebron fan, Jokic complains to the refs more than any player I've ever viewed. The difference between Jokic and Lebron, is that the refs are able to take Jokic out of his game, whereas Lebron raises his level of play when he feels he's been slighted by the officiating. "
this is the most hilariously inaccurate and stupid statement I could imagine. he doesn't complain half as much as Bronny or get half the calls. Jokic is a beast who succeed despite none of the bias LeBron and LA get.
And the implication Jokic didn't still get his despite being exhausted is just so fucking mindnumbing. Bro he cooked the DPOY in round 1. Watch basketball before bullshitting about it.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:50 AM ^
Ahhhh, I see you must be a Nuggets fan/Laker hater based on some of our previous dialogue in tandem with this thread. Kudos to your Nuggets, good offensive team with tons of heart. Unfortunately they're a poor defensive team that ran into a much better Laker team that was able to mitigate Jokic because of the size/athleticism/strength combination in the front court.
Nuggets should be a solid team in the West if Jokic can get himself in better shape and they can add additional wing help. Good luck
September 27th, 2020 at 2:46 PM ^
Jokic complains to the refs about an average amount, and he typically is under control about it. LeBron acts outraged every time he gets breathed on and the ref doesn't blow the whistle. The attitude he gives is "do you know who I am? Start blowing that whistle or Mr Silver will be hearing about this".
I'll also add that I agree that LeBron is still one of the top 3 players in the game. I just don't find the style of his game particularly attractive, and certainly I may be somewhat biased because I am turned off by his on-court attitude.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:16 AM ^
I like Lebron's game, but his reactions to calls are so over the top. He should just give the death stare like Jordan did.
September 27th, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
Some of my rationale can be viewed above, but Lebron is not Michael Jordan. Jordan is the greatest basketball player to ever live IMO. At least as it stands right now.