OT: Jags fire Doug Marrone
January 4th, 2021 at 9:23 AM ^
I am still on the fence about Urban succeeding in the NFL. Easily one of the top 5 CFB coaches of all-time, but a lot of that was predicated on having NFL/5 star talent at every position at Florida and Ohio State because he was a great recruiter. He was consistently out-schemed against lesser talented teams and would get bailed out by big-time players making big-time plays.
Even if he gets to start out with Lawrence, I find it hard he will turn Jacksonville around with their current bottom-tier NFL roster. I am getting a Miami Dolphins Nick Saban vibe with him.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:32 AM ^
Well he will still have NFL talent at every position.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:41 AM ^
I guess the bigger point is that his competition will ALSO have NFL talent at every position, likely better versions of that.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:50 AM ^
Yes my argument is that so does the rest of the NFL. In the Big Ten he had an advantage at every position on the field, which will not be the case anymore. He will have to strategically build a team and not have the luxury of loading it up with the best HS recruits each year.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:00 AM ^
Agree. Urban's big advantage at Florida and especially OSU was overwhelming the opponent with greater talent. I think it's a mistake for him going to the NFL. He'll be on somewhat more equal footing - talent wise - with the other teams in the NFL. That cyst problem isn't going away and I've read that his family wants him out of coaching because of it - especially his wife Shelley. I guess he just can't stay away - it's in his blood and DNA to coach football
January 4th, 2021 at 10:14 AM ^
I think all y'all missed JRell's attempt at humor.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:22 AM ^
Wake up dude... that health issue was a ruse, for him to save face and leave the Florida program, sit out a year, and get the OSU job... he knew Tressel was getting nailed, a year ahead, just like that lawyer insider here knew. Brilliant move. Now, RR should learn from this. Had he done same thing, sat out year, then went to Michigan, then WVa and the media would have been muted.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:36 AM ^
Totally agree with Denard. Urban and Saban are two of the best college coaches ever, however, they are even better recruiters. On a level playing field like the NFL, Saban absolutely stunk. Back in college all he had to do was out-recruit the other guy to have success, and Urban was the same way.
How many people think Ryan Day is a good coach?
January 4th, 2021 at 10:54 AM ^
Does he waste time outs? Can he run a 2 minute drill? If so, he’s a better coach than some.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:36 AM ^
As an was actually decent in Miami, especially given that he had nothing at QB. It is somehow forgotten that he chose to leave Miami, in a rather dubious manner, he was not fired. I don’t know that Sagan would have been an all time great in the NFL, but he certainly was not a failure.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:39 AM ^
I don’t know that Sagan would have been an all time great in the NFL
Yeah I agree, Carl Sagan would've gotten his head ripped off, unless he pulled out a telescope and used it as a weapon, but he seems far too kind to do something like that.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:05 AM ^
With all of those stars that he hoards, his last name should be Sagan.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:42 AM ^
He sure knew how to explain the Cosmos
January 4th, 2021 at 9:40 AM ^
As for the Dolphins/Saban vibe...perhaps. But Saban wanted to sign Drew Brees and was overruled by "legendary" GM Randy Mueller who wanted Daunte Culpepper and Joey Harrington instead.
Uncle Urbz gets Trevor Lawrence.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:43 AM ^
He went 13-0 at Utah too, he definitely didn't have 5 star talent at every position there.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:48 AM ^
He only had #1 overall pick Alex Smith. That will solve some problems.
January 4th, 2021 at 11:09 AM ^
Utah was in the Mountain West and had a #1 overall pick at QB... that’s essentially having 5* talent compared to his peers.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:59 AM ^
I disagree that Meyer was constantly out-schemed. His days at BGSU and Utah showed that he could take lesser talent and beat very talented teams. And he succeeded almost immediately upon arriving at Florida and Ohio State, which were both talented programs but not necessarily leaps and bounds better than most of their competition.
Meyer's downfall at both programs, in my opinion, was an unwillingness to discipline his best players. That could be an issue in the NFL, where star players are already more individualistic than they generally are in college.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:04 AM ^
Ohio State wasn't leaps and bounds more talented than the rest of the Big Ten while Urban was there? I guess the 57 NFL draft picks (17 first round picks) in 7 years at Ohio State was a common formality amongst the Big Ten.
Every year lost a game with said talent to severely lesser teams. 2018 Purdue, 2017 Iowa, almost lost to Tyler O'Connor twice at MSU in 2015 and 2016, 2014 Virginia Tech. Hell, its safe to say both 2016 and 2017 Harbaugh outcoached him but their talent ended up on top.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:21 AM ^
How does one outcoach the other team and lose exactly? As if the other team's players are just out there drawing every play on the football.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:30 AM ^
Do you truthfully not understand this? Sometimes talent wins, even if coaching on the listing team is better.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:41 AM ^
Might need an eye check because I also listed several instances where the lesser talented teams beat Ohio State over Urban's tenure. Michigan led almost the entire game in 2016 and was winning late into the game in 2017 with MF John O'Korn playing QB. If that isn't an indication, I guess I don't really know what else to tell you man.
January 4th, 2021 at 11:29 AM ^
So us gaining 5 yards in the 4th quarter of OSU in 2016 is "outcoaching" them?
Us scoring a whole 6 points in the second half of 2017 is "outcoaching" them? We weren't winning that game late...OSU took the lead in the 3rd quarter.
Are there any instances where we won but the other team "outcoached" us? Because I'm pretty sure if an OSU or MSU fan said that they would be ripped to shreds. Did MSU "outcoach" us in 2016 with their 3-9 team?
January 4th, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^
Well my good friend, I like most would define outcoaching an opposing team when you 1. gain significantly more yards than your opponent throughout the game or 2. are leading for majority of the game but the other team finds a way to win. Call it a turnover, or lucky break that bounces their way.
I can absolutely find instances where Michigan was outcoached yet won. Here are some examples:
1. 2015 Indiana, where Michigan scored with 1 second left to force OT then won in 2OT. Indiana never trailed in the 2nd half.
2. 2015 Minnesota, who outgained Michigan 461-296 but Michigan forced a goal-line stand to win.
3. 2019 Army game, Army never trailed until the final 2OT.
I would not define the 2016 MSU game, where Michigan was leading 30-10 in the 4th quarter and MSU scoring a garbage-time TD with 1 second left to make it look close being outcoached.
However, said 3-9 MSU team did outgain Ohio State in their game in 2016 and had a chance to win by 2 point conversion despite Tyler O'Connor having a 9.9 QBR that day. I would consider Dantonio schematically outcoached Urban in that game.
January 4th, 2021 at 11:43 AM ^
I sincerely doubt you have never complained about Michigan getting outcoached despite winning.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:24 AM ^
Meyer will need at least three years to get the players he wants, on the team, via draft and free agency.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:58 AM ^
Jags owner Shah Khan will give whoever he hires time to succeed. They also have around $77 M in cap space available and 11 draft picks (2 in the first round) including Trevor Lawrence. It’s a pretty enticing job for anyone qualified.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^
I doubt Urban would do well in the NFL unless he surrounds himself with highly competent people. If he goes out there and doles out the patronage positions, something he did at both OSU and Florida, he won't stand a chance.
How many coaches have been legitimately good at both NFL and college coaching in the modern era? Carroll, Harbaugh, John Robinson and? John M It's not easy to make that transition.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:03 AM ^
Spurrier may be a better comparison. Sometimes college success just doesn't translate to the NFL. That's actually what makes Harbaugh pretty unique. He's succeeded at a high level in both college and pro...not many do
January 4th, 2021 at 10:26 AM ^
This is a great point, Mark... thats true.. what coach has had success in both, other than Harbaugh ? Maybe Lombardi at Fordham, and thats it.
I digress... maybe Warde should look at another disciplined Jesuit to coach...worked out well for the Packers.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:28 AM ^
I don't know if he'd be successful in the NFL, or not, and I'm the opposite of an Urban apologist, but he's by far and away the best choice for Jacksonville. He might have done his best coaching at BG and Utah, where he didn't have overwhelming talent advantages and he's always put together great staffs. I don't know how you can say he was consistently out-schemed. He lost some games, like any coach. But winning 85% of your games in the SEC and Big 10 isn't done with talent, alone.
January 4th, 2021 at 10:56 AM ^
His first year as a head coach was taking over a 2 win Bowling Green team. Not much talent there, less than most opponents. They won 8 games his first year. Also upset Northwestern who started the season ranked #2.
The guy can flat out coach. My only concern is he seems to burn out eventually at each job. How will that translate to the NFL?
January 4th, 2021 at 11:09 AM ^
Is it fair to say that any Power 5 coach competing at a National Championship level relies on 5-star/major talent at most positions?
Does that detract from him taking a 2-9 Bowling Green squad and going 17-6 with a MAC Coach of the Year?
How about at Utah where he was MWC Coach of the Year his first season and 22-2 overall with a BCS victory by 28 points?
Urban Meyer might be a douche. However, the guy is 187-32 over four jobs in four different conferences. He won National Titles with two different schools. It doesn't get much more consistent than that.
This still doesn't mean he'll be a successful NFL coach.
January 4th, 2021 at 11:45 AM ^
'Consistently out schemed'??? If only Harbaugh were 'Consistently out schemed' like this.
17 years, (187/32) .854 win %
15 Bowls w/12 wins
3 National Championships
3 Big Ten Championships
2 SEC Championships
2 Mountain West Championships
7 Big Ten Division titles
3 SEC Division titles
January 4th, 2021 at 11:46 AM ^
I don't give a rip about how well he does in the NFL. Just get him as far as possible away from Columbus. I am so tired of Schmuckeye head coaches "resigning in disgrace" only to stick around, get lionized by the fan base, and keep the OSU Deathstar humming.
January 4th, 2021 at 11:51 AM ^
Meyer was successful at Utah and BGSU. His Florida teams also were not significantly more talented than other SEC programs. Florida is a good program, but they fight with LSU, Miami, Florida State, Alabama, etc. for top recruits and he still won.
The only place where I think recruiting became a huge factor is Ohio State, because by then, he was a superstar coach and players wanted to flock from all over to play for him. I don't think that was really the case at UF and definitely not at Utah and BGSU.
January 4th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
I think some of you are letting your angst towards the person cloud your judgement of him as a football coach. IDK whether or not he will translate/succeed in the NFL but he didn't just win because of talent differential and seemed to be able to evolve/tweak his schemes as necessary so he isn't just a one-dimensional spread option guy.
Given some of the modern-O influences in the NFL these days I'm actually intrigued to see how it would work.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:24 AM ^
Good, Doug Marrone was the guy who quit on the Buffalo Bills because he thought he would get the Jets job. Also there is this:
"During his Bills' tenure, Marrone nicknamed himself "Saint Doug," referring to the fact that it takes two miracles to be canonized as a saint (he believed winning at Syracuse was one miracle and winning at Buffalo would qualify as the other)."
January 4th, 2021 at 9:26 AM ^
I assume Meyer is going there and it's probably going to be a bit bumpy. Lawrence is a really good QB but the NFL has seen a lot of really good QBs who get swamped by mediocre coaching, poor talent, injuries, etc. And Meyer has no professional track record and a recent history of quitting/"retiring" when the going got tough and the heat was on. Again, I get people wanting to take a chance with one of the best college coaches around but being a coach at the college vs. NFL levels are just different beasts, and being good at one vs. the other is almost the norm, not the exception.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:28 AM ^
Can they just announce Urban as the coach? I'm tired of constantly hearing his name come up with every new coaching position
January 4th, 2021 at 10:58 AM ^
Someone had to take Gruden’s place
January 4th, 2021 at 9:36 AM ^
I personally want to see the Sh!tshow that erupts in Ohio when he chooses Lawrence over Fields.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:37 AM ^
Well if college football was stressful and detrimental to his health, the NFL isnt much better.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:51 AM ^
I would say having to be on the road recruiting is more stressful than anything in the NFL.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:57 AM ^
I think it's a much different kind of stress. College coaching seems very hectic as you've got a million different responsibilities and you have to travel alot more. And obviously you have to win virtually every week to make the playoffs. NFL has fewer responsibilities but the competition is more even. Roster management is more intense as well as you have tough decisions to make every year with less than 60 players.
That said, I don't think the NFL is not stressful. You can go from the top of your division to the bottom with a couple losses. You can beat the best team of the league one week and then get your shit rocked by a middling team the next if you don't prep right.
January 4th, 2021 at 11:05 AM ^
I tend to agree, and at the same time you can lose 7 or 8 games in the NFL and make the playoffs, where you have a shot. In college one loss could mean you don’t make the playoffs.
January 4th, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^
And in college, if you're OSU, Bama, or Clemson, you look at your schedule and only have to play near your best a couple weeks out of the year. Meyer could look at his schedule at OSU and circle PSU, Michigan and Wisconsin or a tough OOC opponent if they're on the schedule as teams that have the talent to beat you. They can coast to wins against almost anybody else.
There's tradeoffs for each job. I think Meyer will have less stress in the NFL but it will be a more difficult job if that makes sense.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:41 AM ^
Does he take Lawrence or Fields. I have never thought Lawrence was an NFL QB, not sure Fields is either but I like his game a bit more. If they were smart they would build the lines with those high draft picks first.
January 4th, 2021 at 9:45 AM ^
You have never thought Lawrence was a NFL qb? That is quite the statement!
January 4th, 2021 at 9:49 AM ^
I’m iffy on Lawrence. I think he’s got all the tools you could ever want, but he’s not Luck 2.0 in terms of a sure thing like a lot think he is IMO.
Im staying away from Fields. Outside of the fact OSU produces bad NFL QBs, I don’t think he is going to translate all that well to the NFL.
But what do I know. I’m always if the opinion that you build up your OL and other positions on offense before you get your QB. Though recent, I think the way Seattle and Philly (and the Rams to a much lesser degree) built great teams and used their last high draft pick on a QB who would have talented OL/WRs around him is the way to go. Considering the status of almost all of the teams in the top 3 picks, I think you draft elsewhere first. Building that way allows you a longer window too, since your QB will be on a friendly contract.