Breifcases full of cash, hand-delivered.
OT: A closer look at Hugh Freeze
I could care less if Ole' Miss pulls a few of these kids as long as they keep them away from Ohio, Bama, Auburn and Florida
...nobody on this board wanted Treadwell. Good for Ole Miss.
Welll...I was mostly referencing the other two 5* recruits. Treadwell would have been nice but the chances that Ole Miss consistantly pulls talent out of Illinois is slim to none. I believe Treadwell will not become a trend
He also lost interest in Michigan well before he committed to Ole Miss. Whatever the reason, Ole Miss didn't exactly steal him out from under our nose.
Yes, but did he lose interest in Michigan before deciding to commit to Ole Miss?
what about standifer the year before?
Chris Weber wishes he attended Ole Miss...and I'll take my first class trip to Bolivia now.
The heir to the Weber grill fortune?
Mad Magazine lists Ole Miss at the top, then followed by Harvard and Yale.
and has all the hottest girls ever...only behind Michigan State of course...they recruit nationally...for top talent girls to attend their university and football recruits
Sparty got a Canadian transfer so now they recruit internationally.
Would you please edit the title to make it a little more informative? I wasn't sure if Hugh Freeze had died, been accused of bribing commits, or found with CRAIG JAMES AND FIVE DEAD HOOKERS.
Yes. Please edit the title to reflect that his first name is "Victor".
Would you really want to look like a good recruiter?
Without a doubt. Brady Hoke is not normal, with his straight shooting, and genuine honesty. The hard reality, is that recruiting is filled with guys with images to keep, and who sell themselves as much as they sell the school.
Think of the beaches, the mountains, the redwoods!
And nice people too!
The best part is the capitalized "DOES" and the lowercase "nt" with the apostrophe in the wrong spot. This is pure gold.
Mrs. mGrowOld is looking thinner than ever! She needs to start including some more saturated fats in those meals of hers.
(Y U change your avatar?)
Cause somebody was giving me grief about it so rather than getting into a pissing match about something as silly as that I changed it to something completely ridiculous.
Basically my feelings got hurt so I took my avatar and went home. But due to popular demand I'm going to change it back. I'm done pouting.
Anyone giving you grief about your wife is either jealous or stupid...or both, I suppose.
I can understand that. I would probably not use personal photos myself (even though my kids are extraordinarly cute). But I always thought it was cool that you did and that you have been so gracious in the silly criticism that comes your way. Do what you feel most comfortable doing. I was just teasing you.
Thank you Profit - I know you were teasing. I've got a nice pic of her in a dress I'm trying to upload without success. Not sure why it's always a struggle for me to change pics but it's never easy.
the Zubaz shorts.
was a runner 30 years ago.
I think it's Shaun White six weeks ago.
I'd highly recommend reading Bruce Feldman's Meat Market. It covers an entire recruiting cycle at Ole Miss under Ed Orgeron when Freeze was on the staff as tight end and then as receivers coach but was Coach O's recruiting coordinator. There's no doubt the guy can recruit and if his first class is an indication, Ole Miss could overtake Mississippi State as the premier program in that State once again. You can make stacks of money jokes all you want but until there is proof of actual allegations there's no reason to think foul play is involved otherwise. If something does happen down the line, then you can I told you so and everything but for now, Ole Miss is an up and comer. Freeze had a good record at Arkansas State, despite only being there for a short time, and his Ole Miss connections got him this job. He's still gotta prove it on the field though! Recruiting means nothing unless the players produce.
Sammy Sosa agrees with your Lance Armstong-esque argument. If there is no evidence, then it can't be true.
Alternatively, the argument "a mediocre at best program is doing something well? It has to be because the program is cheating" sounds an awful lot like RCMB threads on Michigan's basketball team. Is there any evidence that that Ole Miss is doing anything wrong other than doing well?
And, as highlighted below, some of their best recruits had pre-existing relationships with Ole Miss (e.g., brother, best friend already on the team). It's not like all these guys committed out of nowhere.
Doesn't change the crux of what I was saying. There still isn't any evidence that Ole Miss is doing anything wrong other than doing unexpectedly well. Plus, as I (and others) have pointed out before, some of the highest ranked recruits they landed have existing relationships with people in the program. This class could easily be an abberation caused by good timing with some high ranked players. And don't forget, this is Freeze's first real recruiting class. He was hired by Ole Miss something like 2 months before last year's signing day. So it could be that the guy just is legitimately good at recruiting.
I'm not defending Freeze or Ole Miss, and I wouldn't be surprised if dirt came out. I just get tired of hearing knee-jerk whining and accussations of cheating when literally the only evidence anyone has is just that Ole Miss's recruiting class is really good.
GoBlueinNYC...I posted this in another thread today but it does address some of your points (which I dont entirely disagree with BTW)
Re the Ole Miss "Where there's smoke there's probably fire" recruiting excitement I can share a true story that somewhat supports that. In the early 90's I did some recruting for Michigan here in Northern Ohio and you got to know which kids were looking for something more than a scholarship if you know what I mean. Oddly enough it seemed that ALL those kids ended up at one particular B1G school (not Michigan or OSU) which made all of us wonder just a little bit what was going on. Nothing was ever said or proven and the school never got busted for anything but man was it a wierd coincidence that seemingly every kid with has hand out was ending up in one place.
Note - the kids never actually came out and asked for anything BTW. It was always through somebody else that you found out. Friend, cousin, etc who would ask "what are you going to DO for player X?" and then wait for your response. When we said "provide excellent coaching, the possibility of playing in front of the largest stadium in the country and on National TV several times a year AND a world-class education" you would get looked at for a bit and then asked "that's it?"
And then you knew
So which school was it that they all ended up at?
Michigan basketball is also a top-15 historical program with 100-million dollars of basketball-focused renovations that gave us top-10 facilities and our only 'elite' rated commit at the time of his commitment was McGary. And a basketball class can be top-10 based on one recruit's decision.
Ole Miss is one of the worst programs in the SEC. They've pulled more blue chips this year than in the past 6 combined. And they have basically the same facilities they had the past 6 years.
There is a big difference in Michigan basketball recruiting and Ole Miss football recruiting, although I understand the general point you're making of everyone sounding like sour grapes
That is all true, and Ole Miss does have enough local talent and national prominence being the SEC to recruit well in certain years. But just because the NCAA and/or some intrepid reporters have not unearthed violations does not mean they do not exist. Hell, Miami is basically getting a mulligan on one of the least-surprising "scandals" in recent memory, and the same with a UNC program that similarly "came out of nowhere" with great recruiting classes.
And with Michigan, I accept that people will always wonder about UM's success in basketball in light of what happened with the Fab 5 and Traylor, Bullock, etc. That was a massive institutional failure, one that still has resonance decades later, and will probably remain a black mark of the program for many more years. I'm fine with that; it is part of the program's history, even though the difference with the recent success is that UM has a history of being a pretty good basketball team that suffered through a fallow period than a school with a .560 winning percentage with most of its best years 50+ years ago.
The SEC has been on an unprecedented run of dominance in college football, and if history has taught me anything, nobody maintains such dominance without cutting corners. Maybe they are just the best at doing it, but these transgressions inevitably come to light, and when they do I wouldn't be surprised if a school like OIe Miss is at the center.
Congrats, you are taking the same approach bigots have for generations. Assuming something based on nothing but appearances.
Whatever happened to basing opinions on facts and evidence? What ever happened to suppressing prejudice for good ole fashion logic and reason? Just because something appears to your personal prejudice to be shady that does not mean it is.
I see a masked dude running quickly away from a convenience store that's just been robbed I'm not going to lose a moment of sleep over my "prejudices".
Stating because there is no current proof anything fishy is going on then there is no reason to infer otherwise is nuts!!! I guess you are saying we should not infer any NFL players are using steroids until after they are actually caught also.
have you seen treadwells instagram?
I think the most suspicious thing to me is him pulling kids from places that Ole Miss has no business pulling from given the local competition. If Nkemdiche, Tunsil and Treadwell were from Mississippi it might make more sense but pulling 5-star blue chip guys from Florida and Illinois in particular given the current state of Ole Miss' program seems suspicious at best.
Nkemdiche's older brother goes to Ole Miss. It's not a bad school and has a lot to offer. Freeze is good with these kids and their families, and Ole Miss sells family... Give 'em their props...
Everyone sells family. But not everyone - and definitely not a team that hasn't won a conference championship in 50 years and is coming off 4-8, 2-10, 7-6 seasons - lands the top DE, WR, and OT from out of the state and/or out of the region.
to warrant accusations of unethical conduct. Do you have evidence of misdeeds? Please share with us. If you are going to accuse someone of being unethical you really ought to have something to back up that accusation.
Sure, let me use my subpoena powers to access Ole Miss' donor list and then subpoena their bank accounts so I can come up with something beyond circumstantial evidence. Oh wait, I can't. And neither can the NCAA!
I didn't state "Ole Miss is definitely paying their players", I merely pointed out that the circumstances seemed suspicious to me. They are. If they aren't to you, great, you're entitled to that, but I don't think I'm alone in stating that the circumstances at play here raise a few eyebrows.
you must quickly go to law school, graduate, get a prosecutor job in the Ole Miss area, and start digging for facts before even thinking about looking sideways at this situation.
Peculiarity is the reason to invesitage for unethical conduct.
A picture put up on a social media outlet, that was quickly taken down, showing a load of cash-money no undergraduate athlete has any business possessing. That smells of unethical conduct. (This was done by a former WR from Illinois Michigan was recruiting).
Didn't that picture have like $500 total, or less even?
Really didn't have much money in that picture, certainly an amount you'd expect just about any high school student to be able to gather up to pose for a picture.
I've seen Batman & Robin. It was awful. Mr. Freeze was in it. Therefore, nobody with the name "Freeze" can mean anything good.
Hugh was just on SVP and went on to say that Nkemdiche's brother and Treadwell's best friend were the main reason they even had a chance at those recruits. Not trying to defend but just give his side of the argument.
they brought in the closers: William McKinley, Grover Cleveland and James Madison.
Any school that can re-animate dead presidents is high on my list.
the same division with Alabama/Auburn/LSU/Arkansas and now TAM, there's a lot of pressure to keep up with the joneses, to the point where bending the rules seems acceptable.
You are making yourself look uninformed, dude... TAMU is legit, and players - esp. in Houston and all the Spread Teams in TX ... like 70% of them ... love that Sumlin and Kingsbury (before he left) have Texas wired and they are in the SEC... Beat Bama - the school is hot right now and that's why kids are playing there. It's not because of someone cheating... Stop with the lame analysis...
You're misinterpreting him. He's saying that the further competition of A&M being in the West makes it more tempting to use anything possible.
I look forward to the Hugh Freeze era being expunged from the Ole Miss record books in 2016.
He looks more like a politician than a head coach and we know politicians are honest, god fearing folks!!!!!!!
Last year they had the #40 overall class. They've had 3 five star kids in the last six years, now they have 2 of the top 5 kids in the country. This year they pull the #1 offensive tackle, the #1 wide receiver, and the #1 overall prospect.
But, but, they have women there!
Have you seen there campus!
And they do have the Grove. Which apparently is the most beautiful piece of manicured grass in the history of mankind. Songs have been written of its beauty, and the unwashed masses come from across the world to bask in its glory.
Or it's the money.
So you're saying he "Blind Sided" the other coaches on National Signing Day?
I was late to this joke. Well done sir. I'm going to go cry in a corner. Which corner? The one o'her....
keeping these guys away from Bama, FLA, tosu, etc. is great. If it's dirty it will come out some day, but I'm all for someone else down there stepping on some toes. And, he may be a good recruiter, but time will tell if he can coach.
He pulled in two 4* players last year, sure one of them was from Mississippi but still had two!
It is interesting, to say the least - the average Rivals star rating of his sole class at Arkansas State (as head coach anyway - he was the OC in 2010, I believe) was 2.32, but then I am not familiar enough with the Sun Belt to know if where that would stand, relatively speaking. The 2012 class at Ole Miss, however, rated a 2.95 average, and this year's signing class sits at 3.56, which is nearly 20% better than the previous year. That's something I don't know that I would ever expect at Ole Miss, a jump like that. They did get some high-profile vebal commits early, I believe, but they are behind only the traditional favorites in the SEC for class ranking now. It's a huge jump for them.
with their state of the art football facilities and world class stadium, Ole Miss Alumni will be happy to see all the donations they have made are finally paying off in top of the chart recruits. I forgot to mention the head coach, clearly well known throughout the NCAA, he is absolutely a no brainer to commits across the country. I personally wonder why they have not landed the #1 class in the country. The South has risen again praise the lord.
Yes he was depicted in the movie as a bumbling idiot of a coach. I can see why that would attract kids.
Well it got Ole Miss to higher him...
Hmmm...what do do you think would make them lower him?
Who saw this coming? One might say we just got "blind side"-d.
Amiright? Or amiright?
Hint: when reporters talk about a coach who is good at "closing" that's a euphemism.
They say the same thing about Destiny at Deja Vu.
"Hugh Freeze"? Sounds like a Batman villain.
While I think it's possible that they're paying recruits, I don't find it probable. Let's break down their recruiting class. Of their 27 commits, 16 are consensus (Note: when I say consensus in this post I'm referring to the 247 composite rankings) 3-stars. Of their 7 consensus 4-stars, four (two of them Jucos) are from Mississippi, a state notorious for keeping it's talent home despite rarely having a decent instate program. Now let's look at the four 5-stars that are getting everyone's panties in a bunch. One (Tony Connor) is a local kid, Nkemdiche's brother plays for Ole Miss, and another (LaQuon Treadwell) has a good friend and former teammate (Anthony Standifer) who also currently plays for Ole Miss. So all in all, there are three highly rated players, out of 27 total commits, who don't have an immediately obvious "excuse" for choosing Ole Miss. Now considering that Freeze came in to the job with a reputation as an excellent recruiter and the fact that recruiting can be pretty momentum-based, I find the evidence for any cheating to be circumstantial at best.
This is exactly what I want to see. In this day and age it is much easier to get the ESPN 10 second overview.
1. They had a great class WTF!?!?!
2. Let's hurl insults.
If I could get you to break down the Lions salary cap situation that would be much appreciated. All I get on the talk shows and blogs is LOL Lions when I think if you remove all the Free Agents from the Cap Number it is much different.
Thanks, wish I could help you with the Lions salary cap but I'm not a fan and don't follow the NFL closely enough to know the nitty gritty of how the salary cap works.
That should be four players without an "excuse," but I think my point still stands. Also, it's been awhile since I've posted here and I cannot find a way to edit my post. Any help, please?
EDIT: nevermind about the editing thing, for some reason only my first post didn't have an edit button
I agree to an extent, but the state of Mississippi produces a good-but-not-great amount of D1 talent each year, and Ole Miss has been a bit of a crater the past 3 years. As noted in other posts, this was a school that pulled in decent classes but nothing like a top-3 class. I agree that there is no real proof that anything illegal went down, and the only real smoke is Treadwell's inexplicable Instagram picture, but there is a natural order to things with college sports, and when a team with a checkered history shows up and crashes the party, people become suspicious.
you go somewhere where you can play early, be highly visible and has some players in the NFL. these guys are going to play early, often, and frequently in games against top talent. and their biggest alum has won 2 superbowls in the league's biggest city.
He looks like he's one mutated gene away from being a downs baby.
*Insert South Park "Nothing to see here" office pic here*
Girlfriend from high school attends ole miss now...says that they treat the football players real nice down there, if you catch my drift...CJK5H 'sippi style
So you're telling me that Craig James is killing hookers(allegedly) in Mississippi now? Makes sense, I can see how after his failed political career in Texas he might want to relocate.
In the world of recruiting, I'd say this is a huge outlier as far as recruiting class performance vs expectations.
Sure, MSU pulls in some 4 stars when we're down or random school X gets some better players in some years but what Ole Miss has done given both their track record of on-the-field performance and past recruiting history is just too abnormal for me to be able to accept it as is.
HOW DARE YOU MAKE SUCH ACCUSATIONS! BRIEFCASES FULL OF CASH!? LURING YOUNG MEN WITH SOUTHERN BELLES!? OPTIONAL ACADEMICS!?
CERTAINLY NOT AT AN SEC SCHOOL!
I'm a coach in Memphis ... at the rival school of the one where Freeze coached here. I've posted on here before, addressing unfair statements about the (Barrett) Jones family. By the way, the last (3rd) of the Jones boys (a LB) signed with Alabama today. That's 3 in a row, and I've been blessed to coach them. Considering that, I've gotten to see a lot of Hugh Freeze over the years, and have gotten sick of the lies that the movie created about the whole Michael Oher story.
Hugh Freeze is a charasmatic fellow. He's always been one. He's got an ego; he loves to win ... and will do what it takes to make it happen. Machiavellian. He loves trick plays / smoke and mirrors. He talks a big game, and he gets the best athletes he can find and then enables them to believe they can win. He's had success for that reason.
I don't doubt, though that there are things that are way out of bounds in the recruiting here. I had friends that sat in the classes he used to teach. He flirted with the high school girls, was disloyal to players that didn't perform, humiliated guys that didn't play football, and didn't give a rip about his acadmic responsibilities (and, I don't see reason to doubt the consistency of the statements I heard). There comes a point where you just have to call the kettle black: I just don't think he's a good guy. But, because of his background, he can sure talk like it, and he'll do what it takes to get the athletes. he knows how to get the players, and generally speaking, he's able to produce with them. That's been true of most places he goes. I hate that, because I don't care for him much, and I certainly don't have a stomach for Ole Miss. I'm thankful that we have a coach in Hoke that is the anti- Hugh Freeze.
Thanks for sharing.
Just accusations of a coach who was one of his rivals and has seen him go on to have success. Either provide proof of something he has done, or stop the attempt at innuendo. This is the same kind of stuff thrown at all successful coaches at recruiting, whether it be Lou Holtz or Brian Kelly or Jimmy Johnson or Brady Hoke at Ball State or San Diego State or Bill Snyder at Kansas State....If there is something going on, we will find out sooner or later, until then, you may be entitled to your opinion, but you have yet to provide any verifiable facts to back that opinion up. What do you expect a football coach at a place where there is no tradition since the late 1960's to do, except to sell and sell hard the assets he sees and what he can do in the future?
Per Urban Dictionary -
"Money Talks, Bullshit Walks"
Means that cheap talk will get you nowhere, while money will
persuade people to do as you like.
what goes on at Ole Miss. They have a mess to clean up and until they get their own house taken care of the cheating schools will have a field day. The only good side of this is that 18 and 19 year old kids won't be able to keep their mouths shut or won't know how to keep from showing off their new found fortune.
The NCAA is so demented right now it will be 3 or 4 years before they hammer anyone. Even Miami is going to get off from all I am reading. So Ole Miss is taking the best shot they can at the most opportune time. I can't wait to find out what is going on though.
I have, vry nice school about the size of a MAC school in terms of number of students in a stunning beautiful locale in the south that has places like Baton Rouge and Tuscaloosa and Auburn and Fayetteville and Knoxville beat all to hell with the absolutely best looking and sweetest young coeds in America.....If you have never been there, never been to the Grove, and never experienced the whole Ole Miss experience, you will never get why it is a perfect fit for some athletes and students...Not everyone wants to be at a huge B1G school with 40K to 60 K students in a place like A2 or Columbus or Madison....Ole Miss, where they redshirt Miss America's!
but we're talking football here. Not like, other stuff.
Maybe they all just happen to love William Faulkner?
Staples essentially concludes they had a unique opportunity, went for broke and got their guys. They are clearly hoping to parlay this into success on the field and in further recruiting, and if they can this kind of question will die off. And good riddance - I personally dislike the default assumption that someone is cheating when something good happens to/for them.
Just hypothetically, if a lot of journalists were privy to some circumstantial evidence that cooberates an accusation of some underhanded dealings involving a specific player in that class, what would be the best way to intimate that to readers so they'll know they're justified in their skepticism?