Non business-type crootin or a National Championship? Hypothetical choice

Submitted by ChuckieWoodson on

The hot topic before this NSD is of course what I would consider the "business-like" recruiting tactics of one Jim Harbaugh and staff.  My personal stance on the issue is I don't believe that big time success (multiple B1G championships or 1 NC in a decade) is obtainable without these business-like recruiting practices.  Sadly, I don't think these two things are mutually exlusive anymore.  I don't like these types of practices and makes me feel a bit icky, but it also got me thinking - do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? 

I'm thinking about the benefits of the other players, coaches, students, alumni, fans etc.  If a few kids have to "sacrifice" in order for the collective to benefit, is it worth it?

So - would you be OK with this kind of stuff happening with recruiting every year if it meant we'd get 2-3 B1G championships and 1 NC every 10 years?

MGoBoard

lbpeley

January 26th, 2016 at 10:22 AM ^

are landing on their feet and have some great opportunities ahead of them. The offer from UM absolutely didn't hurt them one bit. They are still getting a full ride to play college ball somewhere. Forgive me if I don't give 2 shits if they weren't deemed good enough for UM.

Joined: 01/29/2009

MGoPoints: 19651

WorldwideTJRob

January 26th, 2016 at 10:55 AM ^

Says who? You don't feel bad about the kid getting a scholarship to a different school. However, you can feel bad about the way it was handled. He had his mind made up this past summer about the college he wanted to attend only to realize that dream won't be fulfilled. That sucks, but if you don't feel that way you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mind.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 07/05/2010

MGoPoints: 31122

Sione For Prez

January 26th, 2016 at 12:35 PM ^

I don't like the academic scholarship comparison. Academic scholarships have specific, measureable numbers. If you fall below GPA X, you lose your scholarship.

I'm on board with the idea that you need to perform and improve to keep a spot but evaluating football talent is more of a gray area than academic performance.

Joined: 11/16/2015

MGoPoints: 10674

WorldwideTJRob

January 26th, 2016 at 10:37 AM ^

It really isn't, sympathy has no limits. I can feel sorry for the people in Flint and for a guy who just spilled his food on the floor at my job even though I know he has cash to replace it. If something sucks it sucks bottom line



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 07/05/2010

MGoPoints: 31122

Gil From Omaha

January 26th, 2016 at 10:37 AM ^

That's a whole different story- these guys are still going to play D1 ball somewhere and go to college for free. I'll gladly go play football at Temple or USF. Or play baseball there. It's not like these kids are going through a super tragedy. You're trying to compare 2 way different things- one is a kid not going to a major D1 school for free, instead a less major D1 school for free, while the people in Flint are suffering majorly. Not even fair to compare that. It's like you're comparing apples to wrenches.



Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad

Joined: 04/27/2015

MGoPoints: 6298

trueblueintexas

January 26th, 2016 at 1:09 PM ^

This issue is becoming a typical "either or" argument vs a "both and" discussion.

The following assesments are true & factual based on what is currently known:

1) Harbaugh is doing what he things is best for Michigan football and doing so in a legal way.

2) Weaver is disappointed. (I'm not even touching the Swenson thing). He is disappointed because an opportunity which was once available to him has been taken away. Yes, there are other opportunities, but they are not the same. From Weaver's side of the story, this is not through any fault of his own, simply Michigan has since decided not to honor the initial opportunity becuase they feel they have better options than Weaver. 

In this scenario, Weaver has every right to feel disappointed because something has been taken away from him. And even though Weaver may still be better off than he was at the begining of the process, something has still been taken away. At the same time, it does not mean Harbaugh has done something wrong. Future recruiting success will be the only measure of whether Harbaugh has made a mistake or not. 

Joined: 11/10/2008

MGoPoints: 36653

Blue N Bama

January 26th, 2016 at 10:35 AM ^

that these kids even find themselves in greater position to be successful following this. In many cases they recieved more offers at schools that they could be successfull at and see potentially more playing time. Still getting a free education. 

Joined: 10/16/2014

MGoPoints: 1415

KO Stradivarius

January 26th, 2016 at 10:56 AM ^

Correct,. When certain guys get Michigan offers, it improves their resume and they look more attractive to other schools.  Maybe not the case with every 4-5 star croot, but certainly 2 and lower 3 star croots will improve the quality of their offers.  It'd be nice to keep the lines of communication open, hopefully that was done, but we'll likely never know.    

Joined: 12/16/2014

MGoPoints: 30649

Btown Wolverine

January 26th, 2016 at 10:24 AM ^

I think this is a valid point that isn't brought up enough. Harbaugh hasn't comitted any violations, minor or major, through these practices.

I know we want to be able to sit on our high horse and say we are better than these types of tactics, but perhaps the problem isn't Harbaugh but rather the system that allows a coach to pull a scholarship from a player for no reason and at the last minute.

Joined: 08/23/2013

MGoPoints: 1536

CompleteLunacy

January 26th, 2016 at 10:46 AM ^

Or perhaps the horse is too damn high for reality. 

Did anyone have a moral outrage over Bo offering scholarships to kids who he KNEW damn well would likely never see the field, just to keep them away from other schools? You can say "but these kids stil got a scholarship!" all you want, and I would counter "So will Swenson and Weaver. Just not at Michigan." 

Joined: 11/13/2010

MGoPoints: 12910

Sauce Castillo

January 26th, 2016 at 11:35 AM ^

this is a great point.  Bo didn't have to turn anyone away because there was no scholarship restriction.  At least Harbaugh is getting in front of it to say "look at your options"  so that the kid can get a full ride somewhere AND actually play.

Joined: 12/10/2012

MGoPoints: 3967

6tyrone6

January 26th, 2016 at 11:56 AM ^

we will keep seeng these posts because we are a split society, there are those who feel participation tropheys should go to all and there are those who feel only the winner gets a trophy. Like Harbaugh said college football is the last bastion. Once our society either bans it or makes it so equal it will sap the soul out of you to watch it and yeah even girls will be forced onto integrated teams these hurt feelings posts will never stop.

Joined: 02/18/2009

MGoPoints: 2028

WolvinLA2

January 26th, 2016 at 11:19 AM ^

That really begs the question. What evidence do you have that "to generate buzz" was Harbaugh's motivation for offering any of these kids? He offered Enis and Evans at the same camp, are you suggesting Evans was offered to create a buzz too?

Joined: 11/13/2009

MGoPoints: 58191

turd ferguson

January 26th, 2016 at 10:34 AM ^

My biggest takeaway from all of this is that a disturbing number of people think that behaviors that don't break official rules are fine.  I keep seeing that argument here and think it's totally crazy.  There's a place for personal/ethical standards beyond what shows up in written rules.

Joined: 12/09/2009

MGoPoints: 26493

somewittyname

January 26th, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^

Harbaugh likes to offer a bunch of low three star prospects as a way of creating a buzz and then cut them loose if they don't get the message after the coaches stop contacting them.

There's an extraordinarily simple solution, don't offer prospects that aren't up to your talent standards to begin with.

Joined: 05/15/2009

MGoPoints: -2510

Autostocks

January 26th, 2016 at 10:58 AM ^

I don't think it's that simple, and I don't think you know either.  Let's stop pretending we know all the facts.  Harbaugh has so much as warned us about being judgmental.

Joined: 11/02/2010

MGoPoints: 1961

gremlin3

January 26th, 2016 at 11:34 AM ^

It's not Harbaugh's ethics that are in question, but those in the fanbase that believe merely doing what some legislative body's complex rat's nest of rules states is okay, is not good enough.

Patting people on the back for finding loopholes is wrong, more so by the ones doing the patting. This is Michigan, and how we treat people is important, and doing it well does not adhere to some NCAA recruiting rules.

I, for one, am not in favor of rug-pulling to 17-year-old kids. Sure, the players do it, but they're 17. The coaches are supposed to be the adults teaching these kids how to treat others right and how to honor commitments. Now, I'm not saying that Harbaugh and staff are rug-pulling, but those okay with rug-pulling that's within the rules are wrong, and not what we aspire to at Michigan.

Joined: 10/02/2015

MGoPoints: 8383

gremlin3

January 26th, 2016 at 2:26 PM ^

And I believe that's wrong too. However, two things:

  1. I was trying to make the point that I believed you missed, not make an ironclad stance on the ethics of the entire situation.
  2. If everyone waited until they had truly complete information, there would be no judgment until well after the fact. People made judgment on the Fab Five, and it wasn't until years later when most of the information came to light. I'm guessing we'll never have all the information on that one. But yes, rushing to judgment is bad and everyone usually ends up losing as a result; something that's happening in this recruiting saga.

Joined: 10/02/2015

MGoPoints: 8383

Kermits Blue Key

January 26th, 2016 at 10:58 AM ^

Trying to find morality in a multi-billion $ business that pays coaches and administrators millions while the players get the smallest share of the pie while simultaneously partaking in a sport that appears to be causing lifelong head trauma seems to be a pointless venture. College football left morality in the dust a looooong time ago. If you have a major problem with what Harbaugh is doing, then you are by definition a hypocrite for being a fan of college football at all.

Joined: 09/04/2010

MGoPoints: 15268

somewittyname

January 26th, 2016 at 11:06 AM ^

At what point is Harbaugh going to realize that cash and hookers are what kids want?

It's okay to feel conflicted about something. It's not the same thing as hypocrisy. You don't have to bend over backwards to find arguments that only serve your need to root for Michigan football without concern.

Joined: 05/15/2009

MGoPoints: -2510

rainingmaize

January 26th, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^

Legal question for all Mgoblog lawyer people. Say a coach offers and immediately accepts a commitment from a recruit in the summer. The excited commit convinces his family to move to Ann Arbor so they can see him play, and they move a couple of months later. If this recruit gets the same treatment as Swenson and Weaver, wouldn't the recruit have a case to sue the University as Michigan gave them enough reason to assume kid was earning a scholarship?

Joined: 04/13/2010

MGoPoints: 10458