More In-Depth Observations From Last Night (first half - Offense) *very long*

Submitted by MaizeBlueA2 on September 11th, 2022 at 3:54 PM

*WARNING - VERY LONG*

I tried to post this in the 'Offensive Snowflakes' thread and got this message:

"Forbidden

You don't have permission to access this resource."

...whatever the hell that means. (Mods, feel free to move this into that thread...I tried, I know it's snowflakes). Anyway...I typed all of it, I'm posting it, dammit.

First Half - Offense only.

I absolutely love this time of year, there's something about watching things fall in place, a team come together, and players find their role that I enjoy (remember, I'm the obsessive depth chart guy).  No, this isn't another JJ/Cade post. I wanted to share some things that I saw from the entire offense...after watching the first half for the 3rd time now. Obviously they're a huge part of that offense.

Overall: Yay!! We've found our starting QB, big fan of letting it play out on the field - it's literally how you handle every other position. Think back to last year...who was the guy opposite Hutchinson? Hint, it wasn't Ojabo until game 3 or 4. He rotated with Harrell, Morris and Upshaw until he was clearly "the guy." DJ Turner didn't start at the beginning of last year either. The guys are literally rotating to figure out who goes opposite Morris this season. You also had guys like Schoonmaker and Rob Moore carve out roles for themselves. It's fun watching it play out in real time.

QB: McCarthy has always been more talented, it's the experience/maturity/intangibles that put Cade ahead (as they should've) - there were 3 presnap reads where he takes his time, noticeably scans the defense and runs the play (I'm sure he always did it, but the camera was tight on him 3 times). You can see him do this before the Donovan Edwards catch...where he also looks off the safety(!), and it was at that exact point where I said, "it's over."

If McCarthy can be consistently good at the things Cade is great at...it's no longer a contest. That said, we did have to burn 2 TOs because of some type of communication, alignment, or substitution mistake, those can't happen in bigger games. But the accuracy, the touch, the kid is now a complete QB - and having Cade was probably the perfect thing for JJ because everything Cade is, is what JJ had to work on. If it was Joe Milton (it would've never been a competition), or even Denard...those guys don't push JJ where he needed to grow. Cade was a great model/example and it was incredible to feel like I was watching Cade, with JJ's physical traits and ability. JJ would've gotten here, he's not an idiot, Cade likely accelerated that process. He is clearly more than just "upside" (the dumbest argument for starting a quarterback, ever. Unless it's year 1 for a coach and it's a mulligan year to get highly rated freshmen experience for the future).

McNamara had a nice first throw to Ronnie Bell. Even avoiding the blitz and finding Corum on the outlet was a good play. The issue is even in that "successful" play. Corum was his only option (for a gain of 2) because he's not able to avoid the pressure. So you're asking everyone else to be perfect, including the coaches. And if one block is missed, if one blitzer is unaccounted for...the only options are eat the sack, throw it away, or check it down. So Bell, Johnson, Wilson, Anthony...they may be wide open, but they're covered because the free rusher limits McNamara to those 3 options. Avoiding the rusher and running isn't an option for him either. It's just too limiting, especially when you don't have Haskins to put you in 2nd and 5 or 6 all game. Literally the very next play after the check down to Corum, McNamara gets out of the pocket and checks down to Stokes (who drops it). Now it's 3rd and 8. With Haskins, you run him...2nd and 6, Cade checks down on the next play, it's 3rd and 4...and you can run whatever you want. Cade in 3rd and 4 is great...Cade in 3rd and 8? Not so much.

Last comment is an obvious one, JJ's presence slows down the pass rush (and it's noticeable). Guys have to stay in their rush lanes and it makes it easier for our OL. When Cade is back there, screw gap integrity, just go get the QB. Guys like Trente Jones have struggled a little in obvious passing situations where it's not a quick throw. Zinter got (uncharacteristically) SMOKED in this situation. Everything is easier for everyone when you're not a sitting duck.

Wait, one more thought on QBs. JJ did a nice job in the two-minute. 

RB: First play of the game and Corum does exactly what Hart (and the rest of us) was talking about...takes a good gain, makes a great cut and turns it into a great gain. Without Haskins, this is a MUST. Speaking of Haskins, there was only one run where it was clear, "damn, we needed Haskins right there" (it was first run of the 2nd quarter/5th drive). But one thing that will go unnoticed that Corum does well is, Haskins finished every run by running you over for 2 or 3 yards...Corum does this hesitation/wiggle move to get the tackler off balance and it allows him to fall forward for 2-3 yards as the guy makes the tackle. It's different, but accomplishes the same thing. 

The biggest improvement last night was Edwards. I've been critical of his vision, he often just ran full speed at wherever the play was supposed to take him and he would run up the back of his OL (Haskins was a MASTER at patient running) or Donovan would get tripped and fly forward 2 yards because his strides were so open. His long run on the "Edwards" drive was the most Hassan Haskins run of the season, "wait, wait, wait...GO!" That may have been HIS moment where the light came on. The catch on the next play is filthy. If he's going to do that...you've got to start playing him with Corum more often.

Stokes is RB #3, put it down in ink. He just has to learn how to pass block (Dunlap still comes in on 3rd down to pass block). But he's a great pure runner. Karan Higdon is such a spot on comparison. 

WR: Hello Roman Wilson! Vey nice story, good on the coaches for highlighting him early. Ronnie Bell is an NFL WR, he has eligibility next year, doesn't need to use it, he's a weapon in the slot - he's noticeably faster than he was early in his career example, the first crossing route on the 2nd drive). Had the drop and the fumble, I've seen enough from him that there's no reason to address it any more than Zinter's blown pass pro rep.

Was nice to see "Darius Cornelius Johnson" make some big catches. There were rumors about frustration coming from the WR room as they looked to showcase for the NFL...based on absolutely nothing, he was always my first guess. Either way, he made some really nice catches. Let's get him the ball!

TE: Erick All seemed fine after his boo boo. Best TE room in school history. TEs were more the story of the 2nd half, but not much in the first 30 minutes other than doing what they were supposed to do.

OL: Outside of Cade's series...they were great. El-Hadi came in early for Keegan, didn't see why, but he's in on the 2nd and 3rd drives - missed it in real time. Keegan comes back on the 4th drive. Trente Jones is a work in progress on pass pro. Zinter got smoked on a 3rd and 8. 100% on him - no excuse.

We need another OT to emerge and I'll feel good about Barnhart (out for 2-3 weeks), El-Hadi, Crippen, Atteberry..and whoever that is last guy is. Quietly, this may be one of the biggest things to focus on these next 2 weeks. Find that 10th OL to fill out the 2nd unit. If not, it's Keegan, which is fine for this year...but it means you're probably going to the portal to replace Hayes after this season.

Thank you for attending my TedTalk... Go Blue!

getsome

September 11th, 2022 at 4:25 PM ^

good stuff.  lets not go crazy re the best TE room in history yet.  that rooms been good but just off the top of my head 95 or 96 jumps out - i believe they had 4 TE with fairly lengthy NFL careers.  fingers crossed though the current guys do their thing

DetroitDan

September 11th, 2022 at 4:31 PM ^

I'm hopelessly partisan, but I don't see any weaknesses on the offense.  We have proven starters all over, and JJ's speed and arm strength open up possibilities all over the field.  The play callers seem to be aware of and take advantage of these possibilities.  The deep passing was fantastic yesterday.

kehnonymous

September 11th, 2022 at 5:16 PM ^

The levelish-headed (and I'm here so let's not pretend any of us are level-headed) weaknesses I can see are:

1) the lack of a power back who will bruise you in the first half that makes an opposing front seven go soft and have tears that they claim are actually the snowflakes falling from the sky, and no this isn't an oddly specific potshot at any rival team. I see Corum and Edwards as guys who will make you miss more than beat you up.

2) I'll have to be convinced that the coaching braintrust will be able to call and execute killshots in high leverage situations, when things aren't working according to plan.  These aren't huge weaknesses and this looks to be easily the most complete offense of the Harbaugh era 

 

 

DetroitDan

September 11th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^

I was thinking about #2 and remembered that, in the Georgia game last year, our coaching staff tried opening things up with McCarthy in the second half.  There was some success, albeit extremely limited.  But perhaps that experience has helped the coaching staff to realize that JJ's athleticism, along with an explanded play book, may be needed to win against top defenses.

maquih

September 11th, 2022 at 8:51 PM ^

Huh, i was just grossly misinformed on weight.  

Still, I think Edwards is better.  Corum has the home run threat obviously, but Edwards looks more like Haskins last year, smart patient runner.

 

Last season I also said Haskins was more important than Corum despite the yardage stats, and against ohio he showed what I was talking about.  

JonnyHintz

September 12th, 2022 at 5:25 PM ^

Edwards looks more like Haskins last year, smart patient runner.
 

Are you watching a different Edwards than the rest of us? One of the main criticisms of Edwards is that he just runs full speed wherever the run play is designed for him to go instead of setting up his blocks and being patient in the hole. He had one run against Hawaii where he appeared to break that trend, but it’s FAR from normal for him at this point.

MaizeBlueA2

September 11th, 2022 at 4:31 PM ^

Other: Jake Butt was fantastic. Devin Garnder is best in-studio (still has work to do as a color analyst - with his personality, he should be on-screen anyway), Jake was made to do color the way he was made to be a TE.

Special Teams, Moody and Robbins are WEAPONS. But too much was made about AJ Henning. Hawaii was kicking away from him and punts were landing 10 yards shorter than they do on average...people asking "why is he letting them hit the turf?" Because he had no other choice unless you wanted him to run full speed and attempt a diving catch on a punt return like he's Ken Griffey, Jr. going after a shallow fly ball. He was fine, and when they did hit it right at him, he caught it and was explosive. The majority of his day was trying to be Jabrill Peppers and limit the ball bouncing another 15 yards to pin us back (no one will be better than Jabrill at that).

Final point, this offense can be ELITE. I worry about the depth, but the starting unit can match anyone in the country. What I'm most excited about over the next two games is...who else is going to join this "starting group?" Can Clemons or Loveland step in and show they're too good to leave off the field? El-Hadi? Remember last year Trente Jones in the no name #80? Can El-Hadi move into that role? Jones played a lot last season - that was important. Who is going to play FB?

Feels like we can finally focus on the TEAM, that's huge. Two more games, the starters are set...excited to build DEPTH and looking forward to the "post-non-conference" depth chart!

jhayes1189

September 11th, 2022 at 6:15 PM ^

Butt sounded like he has been doing it forever, I was honestly surprised when I realized it was him talking. 
 

I also listened on to WTKA on radio and I feel kind of bad for Avant, he struggles a bit on the sidelines, and I liked him so much as a player and seems to be a great ambassador for UM football, hopefully he will improve as a sideline guy. 

jhayes1189

September 11th, 2022 at 6:26 PM ^

I honestly think this is a pretty elite room that would hold up well with the best TE rooms in UM history. 
 

Schoonmaker or All would be the #1 or #2 target on the team on many vintage Michigan teams, and will probably both be drafted in the first 3 or 4 rounds. Colston Loveland also looks like a future star. I think the vast array of weapons in the passing game, as well as an elite group of running backs make these amazing TEs just an added bonus to what looks to be maybe the most loaded Michigan offense since at least the early 90’s top to bottom, or maybe the 99 and 00 teams at least. 
 

For instance, I would take the skill set both these guys have as blockers and pass catchers over that of Bennie Joppru, who was more the recipient of an average running game with Chris Perry not fully blossomed, and a young Braylon who was just coming on as a big threat. Joppru stepped up amazingly, but his skill set I think is below both these guys. Honestly I feel both these guys could be as good as Butt as pass catchers, but they are just on such a loaded offense where they aren’t depended on in the same way Butt was. 
(and both are better blockers) 

cobra14

September 11th, 2022 at 7:43 PM ^

All and Scoon don’t play over any of 95 96 groups. And Shawn Thompson is better than both by a mile too.
 

Just say you don’t know much about those era TEs

 

Michigan fans tends to way overvalue current Wolverines from past wolverines. A lot of “He is a star” but not understanding what a star really looks like.  This is one of those instances. 

Harball sized HAIL

September 11th, 2022 at 4:51 PM ^

I don't think it needs to be overanalyzed.  The O was just in a completely different gear with JJ in.  And I'm a Cade fan.  They were in 5th gear humming with JJ and then downshifted big time to 1st or 2nd with Cade.  Was evident for all to see.  Not even gonna put all the blame on Cade but they went way outta sync when he came in.  Saw vertical passes (completed!) for the first time since I can't remember.

UMfan21

September 11th, 2022 at 5:18 PM ^

The most damning evidence against Cade wasn't even his performance or JJ's.  It was the way Davis Warren came in and ran the offense better than Cade with similar (or worse?!) Supporting cast than Cade had.  

I'm not necessarily proposing Davis be QB2, but his arms and legs looked better than Cade, and the offense moved better with him. 

I think Cade is broken, and I hope Harbaugh/Weiss don't feel they "owe" Cade the QB2 spot if there are better options.

 

DetroitDan

September 11th, 2022 at 5:46 PM ^

I think they "owe" Cade in the sense that he's demonstrated he can do the job against good teams, which Warren and others haven't yet done.  So we out it to ourselves to go with the proven backup (Cade). if the backup needs to play, until we have more data suggesting an alternative might be preferable.

JonnyHintz

September 11th, 2022 at 8:36 PM ^

Idk it depends on the circumstances to me. Obviously this was a very small sample size but if this is something that is showing in practice for a few weeks, it’s something the coaches have to at least consider strongly. Regardless of Cade’s past success, if he’s consistently faltering in practice in comparison to Bowman or Warren then that’s something that is likely to carry over into the games. 
 

That would probably be the “more data” in your statement though. 

ST3

September 11th, 2022 at 5:20 PM ^

My one counterpoint to this is that Corum is still on the team. Last season, before he got hurt, Corum was averaging 1 yard more per carry than Haskins. So saying that McNamara’s crutch is gone, isn’t entirely accurate. I just think Cade has lost his mojo, whatever that is.

goblu330

September 11th, 2022 at 6:35 PM ^

Cade was never really anything more than this, physically.  His effectiveness was in making the right play at the right time and remaining level headed in high-pressure high-leverage situations.  That is why this “competition” was never really going to yield a fair side by side comparison.  There are no opportunities for quarterbacks to use such intangibles against baby seals.

There is no question JJ should be the starter.  There is also no question we are going to wish it would have been Cade in there in certain moments this season.

maquih

September 11th, 2022 at 7:32 PM ^

He's just played poorly this season.   Nobody has asked him to do anything physically imoressive but his throws have been inconsistent including the easy ones and he hasn't done a good job of making the right reads.  On the almost interception last week he had Roman Wilson wide open for a touchdown on the on the other side of the field.

Both QBs have had easy tests the last two weeks and McCarthy is the one who made them look as easy as they should.

goblu330

September 11th, 2022 at 8:03 PM ^

We have seen McNamara make those throws for a season and a half.  He can make them.  Look, I’m not saying that McCarthy should not be the starter, he should be, but this wasn’t a “try-out” for the starting position, it was a coronation for JJ to start.  We all know it.  McNamara knew it also.  It should not be a surprise that he wasn’t lighting the world on fire.

maquih

September 11th, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^

Yes, we have seen McNamara make those throws but he's not right now and he's not giving our team the best chance to win right now.  Maybe he's just in a slump but this season so far hasn't come down to anything more complicated than McCarthy playing well and McNamara playing poorly.

Vote_Crisler_1937

September 11th, 2022 at 8:04 PM ^

Didn’t Devin Gardner disagree with Brian Cook’s take that Roman Wilson was wide open for a TD? I believe Gardner said that Cade made the best available pre-snap  read and, “it’s not real football” to adjust to find Roman after that. 
 

Gardner has been plenty critical of Cade so if he thinks that was correct, it’s hard to argue against his knowledge.