I wanted a real victory
This is maaaaybe premature there, ESPN. Maryland #1 FWIW.
I wanted a real victory
Yes...they tried to give us the game and we blew it. Maybe we should have tried a few more 3's.
Something like 15 turnovers in regulation? Hardaway really irritates me sometimes too...
I think you need to relax if he irritates you that much. Freshmen tend to make mistakes, give him and the other young guys some time to mature.
Plus, he seems to be drawing some of the toughest defensive assignments, including the top of the 1-3=1...
He is a freshman who led all with 19 pts. He had some clutch shots and steals late in the game. He also hit his FTs late in the game. He is going to make his freshman mistakes, but he is one of the most exciting players to watch.
most athletic players on the team. He has a good shooting stroke. Just needs to learn what is a good shot and what is not. The sky is the limit for him.
he makes a few bad decisions but he is a true freshmen. give him credit for being aggressive on the offensive end. he and morris were the only two guys showing any confidence. our 2 juniors need to show more leadership and consistency on the offensive end.
Everyone, I realize Hardaway is a freshman and that he's going to make freshman mistakes, but freshman mistakes still irritate me. He has phenominal upside and he's going to be great here, but some of the shots he takes are ridiculous.
he's only a freshmen. he should be redshirting. he shouldn't even be seeing the floor let alone starting...
wait. wrong sport.
kaminski 16 this is the kind of fan that complained about our football team that had a record that everyone expected and then cried about towards the end of the season. go fill any of these kids shoes and then come back and let me know if you still fill the same way.....oh just like me your not talented enough along with the rest of my fellow fans who complain about our youngsters who play on our great UM teams.
Sorry, I forgot I can't watch college basketball and not totally approve off every player's performance because I'm not a division one level basketball player. This is our team and our school / alma mater for many on here, so we are all entitled to an opinion.
And don't put words in my mouth.
This game, particularly the first half, was a disgrace to basketball. How Michigan escaped the first half down by only 7 points can only be explained by Kansas also not showing up to play. Shooting was attrocious in the first half, and a big part of that was because of horrid shot selection and inability to run the offense against the pressure of Kansas's defense.
That being said, I'll give the good guys credit for coming back and making a game of it.They certainly had to make some big plays to tie up the game, but there's no question in my mind that if they had played like they did in the last 5 minutes of regulation during even just the second half, we'd be talking about the upset that was, rather than the one that "almost was."
Kansas wasn't doing well offensively. Their doing (not showing up) or M's doing by playing D.
Why oh why did we stay in man so long in OT?
I thought the same thing. We made our run in a zone defense but went back to man?
at the end of both halves when we went to zone.
moral victories don't get you to the big dance
this team to make the NCAA tourney anyways. This year is more about building for the next couple of years, it isn't NCAA tournament or bust. Playing Syracuse and Kansas close indicates that the program is going in the right direction.
Yeah but the ultimate goal for any team is to get to the tournament. The players don't start the season just hoping to do okay
An extra win in the Big 10 does us more good than an upset here I would think. To me 8-10 with a win over KU looks less impressive than 9-9 with the close loss when it comes to Selection Sunday.
Agreed. Instead of saying, "ouch, losing record in the B1G" they say, ".500 in the B1G, and remember that OT game against Kansas?"
but need those big signature wins at some point. I hope Kansas doesn't beat us twice. Big game on Wednesday.
Actually, one really big win against an elite non-conference team and a sub .500 conference record is more likely to get you into the tournament than a .500 conference record which is built up on the bottom half of the conference with blowouts and ekked out wins against the middle to top,
Exactly. The worst cliche in sports is a "moral victory." Michigan played well, and probably should have won. End of story. A moral victory still means you lost, so there is no victory.
There was a victory in the sense that some jhigjly rated recruits were attending and saw a great game in a nice atmosphere. Check out Gary Harris' profile as he is a recruiting target that was in attendance. Would have been nice to get the actual victory but this program is taking steps to being a frequent March dancer.
sweet for experience. Sour loss. We need a big man in the middle for thos easy baskets. Overall, very young team with great upside. Love Tim Jr. I'm very proud of the national TV performance.
This is the most mentally tough team i have seen in a very long time. This team doesnt give up and fights to the end. If they can some how start hitting the 3 ball...watch out. I think this team paves the way for next years team which will be the best team in a long time.
Todays game should show those who think we don't play "real basketball" to rethink what they are saying. JB is turning this young squad into a team that can compete with the best.
I agree, but it's key we stop playing down to opponents. We should have blown out Penn State, but we won by 7 at home in a squeaker, then we take Kansas to OT? This team needs more consistancy, and that will just have to come with time, I guess...
that same penn state team that knocked off MSU?
True, but who knows State is even going to be this year. I haven't been impressed so far, considering they were preseason #2.
Considering this Michigan team was supposed to be very average at best, you should be impressed with how they've played and look forward to a very good '11/'12 season.
but we have been down this road before. It's one thing when expectations are low, it's another when they are high.
Don't blame the son for the sins of the father.
I never said I wasn't impressed, we just need to play every game as if we were playing Syracuse or Kansas.
anyone speaking out against the regime. You must speak with great optimism or be silent.
that from this game? We shot the ball 63 times and 28 of them were threes while only made 4 of them. We play great defense, as we have most of the year, but run a gimmicky offense. If we don't hit our threes we won't win the game. We finally started taking some easier shots the last five minutes and clawed our way for the tie. Then five of our eight shots in OT were three pointers.
EXACTLY! 4-28 from 3...I said at the beginning of the season...LIVE AND DIE BY THE 3...and i got the "have you even watched this team play?"
nobody likes to hear that we may not be a good shooting team. If we were hitting them I wouldn't have a big beef with JB. Unfortuantely we can't buy a three and he seems to not want or not be able to change things up. That is my issue with him.
is that JB has recruited 2 big ten caliber post players to this point and they are both freshman.
who is going to provide all this low-post offense you want?
just keep shooting 25-30 threes a game rather than try huh? What about last year when Sims was here? Or the year before that? I don't think it matters who JB has in the post he wants them to shoot threes. Ask Joe Alexander and his senior season once JB left.
sims got the ball plenty. he was one of the conf leaders in scoring. i would much rather him kick it out for an open 3 than force up a shot in a double team.
He blew up that year under Huggy bear. Is he in the NBA?
So do you think Kansas is questioning their scheme because they went to overtime against such a crappy team?
team is crappy? The offense is crappy not the team.
So you think our freshmen and sophomores are as talented as Kansas? And if your answer is no, then you should probably give Beilein some credit for getting them to play above their potential and getting to overtime against the 3rd best team in the country. If your answer is yes, then you haven't really been paying attention.
Also, please explain why you think the offense is crappy. Is it because that offense has us competing with the top teams in the nation? The results are all that matters. Why do you care if we shoot and miss a lot of threes if it gives us a chance to beat 2 out of the top 4 teams in the nation?
your assertion that it is the offense that has us competing with top teams in the nation. Have you even watched a game this year? It is the defense that has us competing with these teams. This team is the polar opposite of our football team. We have a real solid defense that holds opponents to poor shooting. At the same time we have a non-traditional gimmicky offense that is completely one dimensional. I don't know if you saw how we forced them to over time but it wasn't by hitting threes. Our last three scores down the stretch were all two point shots where we were looking to be agressive and take it to the basket. This worked well, so of course JB went away from it in OT going back to shooting threes. If we were hitting say even 25% from three point land I wouldn't be so harsh on JB. He has to learn how to adjust his offense rather than just running the shell where we pass it back and forth around the perimeter until someone gets open enough to shoot a three.
Sounds good. You continue to bitch about our offense while the rest of us watch a coach take 3 freshmen starters, a sophomore starter, a junior starter, and 0 seniors on the team compete with the upperclassmen of the 4th best team in the nation. Also, just so you know, we have 5 losses on the season: 2 of them to undefeated teams and 4 out of the 5 to ranked opponents. Also also, we have 1 true post player and he is a redshirt freshmen. Do you really want him to take a lot of shots against 4 and 5 star upperclassmen?
we have no solid low post players on offense. morgan generally gets his points from offensive rebounds or working off a pick and roll.
as far as driving the lane, morris is the only guy who can do that. and he does it quite a bit. it's just very hard to do that against kansas with their athletes.
novak, douglas and smotrycz are not good at creating their own shots. and hardaway showed signs tonite of improving his dribble drive but he's just a frosh.
of course the offense doesn't look good when the shots aren't falling. beilein is doing the best right now with what he's got. and he's got a couple more athletic scoring types coming in next year, so the offense may look a bit different.
Kansas took their foot off the gas. They thought Michigan would quit when we went down 13 in the second half. Then they couldn't get their momentum back until overtime.
This is starting to become a horrible meme. Michigan can never come back in a game, football or basketball, without the other team "taking theire foot off the gas." Not only is it ignorant, it is just plain wrong. I must have missed them subbing out all of the starters. It is a horseshit argument. But please, tell me how Syracuse did the same thing.
4 more threes than Kansas. Is their offense gimmicky too? If Michigan had shot their season average percentage from the 3 point line, they would have won easily. IMO, one of the surprises for this season has been how few times UM has needed to be hot from 3 to bail them out.
Definitely learned something about themselves today. Hopefully can use this game to help win others down the road.
Makes me want to pull my hair out.
We catch Kansas with their paints down, playing their worst game of the year, and we couldn't capitalize. We needed a comeback just to force overtime.
This team is young, so I'll stop being upset after another half hour and remember we're going to rip people to pieces in a year or two, but I feel like this is the story of our program and I'm getting really, REALLY tired of it. Living off football and hockey only works when football is actually winning.
he is by far the most schizo player on the team. Can't miss one day and cant shoot the next.
Anyone know what recruits were visiting today?
Someone on the open thread mentioned Garry Harris and Sherron Dorsey Walker. I think there was one more that I can't seem to remember.
From @umhoops on Twitter:
Carlton Brundidge, Sherron Dorsey-Walker, and Gary Harris are among the recruits expected at Crisler Arena today.
Buckeyes go down.
Why is this game so early? I'm going to have to make a tough commute after school...
not sure, but I know I'll be there.
See you there, my friend.
they routinely have double headers on Wednesday, one at 6:30 and one at 8:30. Teams in the EST usually get the early game, and teams in the CST get the late game.
If you had a brain and you gave a prediction for the basketball team's season record in early November, you would have predicted between 10 and 15 wins. That's a bad team.
A win today would have been an all-time Michigan Miracle, the likes of which would be nearly unmatched in the history of any U of M program. As it was, it's a very reassuring sign.
We have an above-average team when we thought we had a bad team. This team graduates nobody.
Today was awesome. If you're upset, you're not paying close enough attention. Now's a good time to start.
i had them pegged for 5 big ten wins (9th in conf) and probably 12 overall. they are better than that.
the team is so frosh and soph dominated yet play solid D. i have to believe that JB places much more time and effort in practice to get these young guys insync on D. and it's working. that's probably why the O is kinda vanilla right now.
i think this is the way to go.
will still be tough. Outside of Iowa and Indiana, the league is tough this year, possibly the best since the 89 season.
Eh, it may give them confidence going into the meat of Big Ten play.
They should fire Beilein and go on a coaching search.
Well played, sir!
No, no, no, you have to wait until the end of the season. Let the process play out.
Then make a run at John Kuester
still under contract with a different team, don't want to break any ethical violations.
Damn, same with Phil Jackson too...
Look what he's doing at SDSU!
I do not believe in moral victories. Under any circumstances.
But the part about picking up some confidence prior to the B10 season makes sense.
Obviously, you need to watch more Lions. You'll believe!
If this team stays together until Morris is a senior along with adding the recruiting class coming in we will be a championship contender.
Oh, wait, OK. Great effort, still waiting for U-M to shoot above 30% from three in a key game...
i think generally the 1-3-1 can be employed after a made basket. our shots weren't falling in OT.
I saw moral victory and thought what does Les Miles have to do with MBB. I am hoping Purple Stuff will clarify for me.
Hardaway has shown the ability to get to the basket and at the very least draw the foul, when he learns to pass up some of those threes and take it to the hole I think he will be even more impressive than he has been so far for just a freshman
I would rather play in the NIT and win a few games than play a two or three seed in the NCAA and get blown out. Very nice showing though and it gives me hope we might win a surpise game or two in conference this year.
this is not an ncaa tourny team. probably next year though.
But I was going through photos of the game, and I figured out one thing.
John Beilein is a Scanner!
That was the first time I have seen them play this year and I must admit I'm looking forward to the future of Michigan Basketball. It looks like the talent is there and with a little time with Beilein, I can see this team competing for the Big Ten and an NCAA tournament bid next year.
Learn how to speak properly. There "aren't" any points for moral victories.
"Moral victories is for minor league coaches"
And bad grammar is for major league coaches?
I was there. Great game, and the crowd was terrific down the stretch and in OT. But it was not a sellout - there were plenty of empty seats in the gold sections. People, come out and support this team - they've demonstrated that they'll leave it all out on the floor.
the future. They play hard and they play defense. They are young and inexperienced so they are going to make mistakes. We start 3 freshmen and a sophmore. We won't play anyone this year that is that young. (When we played Purdue they started 4 seniors and a junior). Our team is getting better from week to week. The coaches are doing a hell of a job.
While I admire their effort, I can't help but wonder how far a "moral victory" gets them in the minds of the NIT/NCAA selection committees.
for whomever wants to respond. Michigan BBall has played very tough against two top OOC teams, and lost badly to two top BT teams. Which is more true: UM BBall is close to competing nationally. Or the BT is very good, at least at the top?