I don't think this is who Webb was referring too, since Hill has been discussed a lot in the past, but I don't mind this move either....
Hopefully this offer doesn't have anything to do with McQuay, but Hill is no slouch
I don't think this is who Webb was referring too, since Hill has been discussed a lot in the past, but I don't mind this move either....
Hopefully this offer doesn't have anything to do with McQuay, but Hill is no slouch
probably sam's cryptic tweet. this isn't good news for our safeties given the news that they already moved norfleet there.
Then and now.
Not really sure, but I read today in an article which quoted Kovacs for bowl practice and mentioned Norfleet doing well at RB.
Kovacs said other young players who have impressed him are Norfleet at tailback, Jarrod Wilson at safety and Ross and Joe Bolden at linebacker.
Article was posted on Dec. 10th
Only a fool would turn down the hometown Michigan wolverines for Iowa.
...or a safety.
Iowa safeties over the years have been better than Michigan's.
Yeah! Iowa City over Ann Arbor plus Iowa football tradition is second to none.
I didn't say that. All I said was that Michigan hasn't done a very good job of producing safeties in the past 20 years or so.
Jordan Kovacs. Brendant Englemon. Leon Hall.
That's all I got.
Hall was/is a corner. And Brandent Englemon was just a guy. Unfortunately, compared to a lot of other Michigan safeties in recent years, he's considered to be near the top of the heap.
By the way, Iowa's crop includes Tyler Sash, Amari Spievey, Charles Godfrey, Sean Considine, Bob Sanders, Matt Bowen... That's not a star-studded crop outside of Bob Sanders, but those guys are/were pretty good players.
And the best of Michigan's safeties - Ernest Shazor, Jamar Adams, Jordan Kovacs - are/were fringe NFL guys. Shazor didn't get drafted, Adams caught on a little bit with the Seahawks, and Kovacs isn't guaranteed of being picked in April.
You're kidding right? Iowa offered first and has stuck through thick and thin with him. Not to mention they seem to churn players, especially defensive players, who make NFL rosters.
Completely agree, he has every reason to stick with his commitment and Iowa definitely runs a good cover 2 scheme to help prep for the pros.
To play devil's advocate: it's not uncommon for players to commit to one school, only to flip when they finally get the offer from the prominent in-state school, especially when they have teammates going there.
But in this particular situation, Michigan has a great defensive coaching staff and is heading in a much better direction that Iowa is. Since Hill committed to Iowa, he has seen them lose to Central Michigan en route to missing a bowl. In that same time, he has seen Michigan slaughter Iowa and put together its second straight top-10 recruiting class. Hill has very little connection to Iowa outside of them being the first big time program to offer him.
It was the "fool" comment that rustled my jimmies
Fair enough, but I think that's mostly just rhetoric. Saying, "Only a fool can turn down such an offer" is a common expression, and does not literally mean everyone who turns it down is stupid. Obviously Iowa has redeeming qualities, but you have to admit that most kids from Detroit don't pick Iowa over Michigan when they have offers from both. Or kids from not-Detroit, for that matter.
and it's hard to believe any kid from Detroit would find Iowa un-interesting, with their vast cultural hubs and so many things to do there.
plenty of stuff to do in that picture. That is not to say that Iowa is better that UM, of course.
Iowa is also one of those big ten teams that is good in phases, and they're starting a down slope. Michigan is most assuredly on the upslope. Not arrogant, just watched some football this fall. Iowa had a new d coordinator this year. And they went 4-8. I stand by my statement.
and it doesnt hurt that when Ferentz worked for the Browns in the 90's he worked with Belichik, Pioli, Jim Schwartz and a whole lot of others I'm probably forgetting. He is held in very high regard by a lot of NFL coaches and front office people.
Yeah, I bet this was Sam's tweet. So what's the deal with the safeties? And how would this visit preclude another visitor? Are the coaches thinking McQuay is not coming here?
I get the feeling that the only people who might think McQuay will pick Michigan are Michigan fans...
Obviously, this is Michigan Fergodsakes.
are more optimistic, but I wonder how much if it is just disbelief that someone would pick Vanderbilt over Michigan and USC in the face of lots of evidence saying McQuay will do just that.
TomVH feels pretty good about our chances too
Of course he'd feel that way. Why would he want to tick off people that pay money for his content before he actually has to report McQuay is going to Vandy?
Gonna disagree with you that one. I've never gotten the impression that Tom panders to anyone. And I've never got the impression Tom is super optimistic about McQuay either. Certainly thinks we're up there, but as he's even said, McQuay doesn't talk to anybody hardly at all. Most stuff about McQuay seems like educated guessing rather than informed reporting at this point.
On Garnett, Kozan, and Diamond. He has done the same this year on LT. Look, as an "insider" it's better for business to keep hope alive unless you are absolutely sure that it isn't going to happen. What I've noticed the last several years is usually when Michgan goes from being in the top of someone's group to no longer being an option the recruit usually stops talking to Tom. Then Tom says something about how he doesn't have any new info but he still feels pretty good about it. Maybe he is just letitng the fans down easy but most likely it's just better for business to have Michigan in it for more players.
Yeah I remember Tom vehemently defending Rodriguez's recruiting on this site, to much applause, I might add.
Couldn't really speak on Kozan, but most national analysts had Diamond and Garnett pegged to Michigan last year as well except for the West Coast people who correctly predicted Garnett to Stanford.
I had a source on Diamond that was as good as any info Tom VH had short of asking Diamond himself. Brian Cook supported me in posting when I told him who my sources were. This source was better than 90 percent confident Diamond was coming to M and ruled out Auburn completely a week or more before Diamond announced. What happened? Only Diamond himself knows entirely as he didn't even tell people close to him that he spoke with every day. So I don't think it's pandering or playing things up for Insiders, I think that some recruits are just that unpredictable and change their minds a lot.
I learned here that there can be no true despair without hope.
Couldn't all that just be that recruits change their mind all the time? Maybe recruit is telling Tom (or any analyst for that matter) that UM is on top, then a week later decides he wants to go somewhere else. Doesn't mean the analyst is pandering to the subscribers when they reported UM is on top. I don't really remember what Tom said on Kozan and Diamond, but I specifically remember Garnett. He was being his typical cryptic self, the abrubtly stopped talking about him for a week. Some poster called him out on it, and he said (paraphrasing) 'Ah, you caught that did you? Well somethings have changed, and I'm not nearly as confident in Garnett as I was before. UM still has a chance, but I can't call it now'. This was about a week before the announcement when even Sam Webb was confident in Garnett to UM. Afterward, didn't Garnett basically confirm just that. I was under the impression he had UM leading late until the very end when he decided on Stanford. VH has always been cautious with his information he puts out there. If you want to see pandering, check out anything Bucknuts' staff writers put out on recruiting, or whatever the hell Alex at Eleven Warriors writes about OSU recruiting.
You can make a prediction that a guy is coming here, then say he changed his mind when the kid doesn't. No one will ever "know" except the kid himself. It sorta makes the prediction kinda useless.
Part of being the "recruiting insider" is wading though the chaff that comes from the recruits. Otherwise, the existence of insiders is worthless (i'm sure many argue that anyway)
Agreed, just like the optimism over Green. Just don't see either one coming here. Glad the coaches are starting to figure out the backup plans and are making it happen with about two months to go rather than waiting on the all star games or after to be surprised. Maybe they learned something from the big whiffs at the end of last year?
I don't know why it's not unreasonable to be optimistic about Green. The guy just said we lead. Now, doesn't mean we'll end up actually getting him, but it's certainly fair to be optimistic.
Being optimistic is fine, just saying there're uncomfortable parallels with other close but not quite recruitments.
Well aren't you just a negative nancy.
Not at all. I just happen to think that Green is looking for another school that isn't a tire fire in the midst of a coaching change, isn't about to get destroyed by sanctions, and isn't called Michigan. Given that he initially drilled down to Auburn, Tennesse, and Michigan, then watched the other two schools implode and now seems determined to look around tells me there's something about Michigan that doesn't speak to him, which is fine. Not sure how any of that is flamebait or trolling.
I've never figured out why some people think having a music school means McQuay is a slam dunk to come here. He's never been anything more than a long shot.
Is a bit of an overstatement. There's enough evidence that would indicate he has more than just a passing interest in Michigan
Considering he took an unofficial and an official, I think he might be better than a long shot.
According to Allen Trieu, this is NOT the guy Sam was mentioning
I don't remember the coaches ever confirming northfleet's move to safety. Speculation...
The speculation rose from the bowl practice video right?
It all makes sense now, Norfleet's alter ego Northfleet is playing safety. Why didn't I think of this before??
you are. That was actually Southfleet who moved to safety
I believe you meant to say Soufleet
Any indication regarding his interest level or if he is going to or has visited unofficially before?
AFAIK, Hill has not visited Michigan at any point, at least not in the last year.
EDIT: I take the above statement back - Hill visited back in March.
Do you guys think this is a move that means the coaches aren't confident in landing McQuay? Or is there possible attrition from this class or someone on the current roster?
That Hoke is putting out offers for Cass Tech kids (good players too) with not a whole lot of hope of actually getting them, but more to keep the pipeline. There have been a lot of interesting offers to local kids lately and not really a ton of push to actually get them. It seems that they may be doing this to stay in the good graces of many coaches and schools.
Again, not saying these aren't good prospects, just seems they've been doing it a lot in the past month or so.
"There have been a lot of interesting offers to local kids lately and not really a ton of push to actually get them."
How do you know this? A statement (or really an accusation) like this means you have insider information that allows you to compare the recruiting efforts of this staff among different recruits. Is that the case, or are you just making shit up?
It's not an accusation. Sending out offers to keep a pipeline open, if that is what Hoke is doing, isn't wrong.
I was making an observation on how it appears to me. I didn't say that they were doing that and I know it, I said it seems like that. The fact that they have been offering a lot of local kids may be because they think they have a better shot at landing them this late in the process, or it could be to stay in the good graces of the coaches and schools. To me it seems more like the latter rather than the former, but I could be wrong.
So, no, I'm not just making shit up. You need to read the context of my post before getting pissy about something that was in no way disrespectful (or as you call it, "an accusation", as if the coaches were doing what I have the feeling they are doing is bad to begin with).
Haha, Wow. No. You speculated as to why they were handing out a lot of offers ("it seems like"), but you did not spectulate that they were not putting any "push" behind them. You stated the latter as fact. You may want to read your own post for crying out loud. There's one basic thing you are not allowing for - time. If the coaches just put out these offers, it might take time for them to put some "push" behind them. Let it play out a bit before you accuse them of just throwing out offers and not really trying to recruit those who were offered.
Dont accuse me of being pissy by mischaracterizing what you wrote. Re-read your own post first.
Is it me or does it seem like the coaching staff are scrambling a little bit by now offering people that they could have and didn't offer earlier in the process?
I don't think it's "scrambling" as much as trying to tie up loose ends. This is sort of what happens at the end of a recruiting process to fill in spots. Things start to align, the roster starts to sort itself out through injuries and attrition, kids narrow their lists, and new offers go out.
This is how we got Bellomy, Poole, Norfleet, etc.
I don't think so.
It's not really scrambling when you've had 20+ commits since the Summer. I think it's in part to keep the pipelines a flowin', and in part to say we took a swing at the players the coaches wanted
I saw that Texas A&M (I believe) have 34 commits. How is this legal?
There are limits on how many they can sign though. I believe the NCAA allows 28 + up to 3 EE depending on the size of their previous class..
I don't think that's true. From what I understand, the NCAA has no rule on class size, they just need to be at 85 by the time fall camp starts.
Houston Nutt like oversigning. http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/Test/Issues/Recruiting/Football+Recruiting The limit on the ultimate class size by has been in place for awhile.
recruit, I'd be looking for an escape route just in case
Not scrambling. The offers that go out earlier are for guys the coaches know they want, no matter what. But as time goes, the coaches see who commits, who leaves the team, which players on the team look good (and which ones don't), and how many spots they have.
Recruiting is fluid, remember that. Maybe the coaches feel Hill had a good senior season, or maybe they feel like they need safeties more now than they did in July.
Noo, they are doing it because Delano Hill,, is actually a good athlete.
4 star to Rivals & Scout, 3 star to ESPN, regarded as top-25 safety by all three. Not sure if that qualifies as "under the radar."
Probably nitpicking here but I would grant he may be "overshadowed" by some of his teammates but I don't think he is a diamond in the rough (under the radar) sort of find by the coaches.
"You don't hear about him when anybody mentions this years Cass Tech team."
Speak for yourself.
Magnus-- What are your thoughts on Hill?
I haven't seen much of him this year, but I wasn't all that impressed with his junior film. He has pretty good speed, but he's not a great tackler and isn't very physical. He played mostly in the box for Cass Tech, so I imagine he'd be a strong safety (not big enough to be a LB). It would be nice if he were a better tackler. Maybe he's put on some weight, added some strength, and improved that aspect of his game, though.
He's a good athlete, but he needs to be coached up.
I remember hearing similar things about Thomas gordons height speed weight coverage and tackling ability...
That's pretty standard for a Cass Tech kid though - they often need more technique work, but are great athletes. Hell, Thomas Gordon didn't even play defense until his senior year in high school, and he's our starting safety. As Ken said below, he had one of the best 40 times at the Opening, despite being 200lb already, and if he was at The Opening, he must do the camp stuff very well.
It would be nice to see his senior film.
Who doesn't hear about him? Because I certainly did. He was an early commit to a Big Ten school, and got good press at camps. Not under the radar at all. Didn't he get invited to The Opening?
He was one of the faster recruits at The Opening. It was reported that he ran a 4.4 40. I'm not sure how many fakes we should give it.
I'm not sure if you can call him under the radar. He has been committed to a big10 school since april, plays for a prominent, familiar, and good high school team, and is a 4* to 247, scout, and rivals. I'm not sure what about that leads you to under the radar. It just seems like he is the replacement offer to McQuay, who the coaches feel is unlikely to end up here. I don't mean that in a bad way, I think he would be a good addition to the class, just that McQuay is an elite prospect.
I figured this would happen but as a last minute signing day deal.
Be a part of the pipeline Delano.
This is an interesting offer. A 4 star from a pipe line school. I'm unsure if Hill is as interested in Michigan as many of the other Technicians, as I haven't really heard much from him. Will be interesting if he decided to take a visit here, or if he decides to stick with his Iowa commitment. I must say, recruiting is picking up a bit recently!
Are we going to have an all Cass Tech secondary at some point if we can turn Hill?
I was in faver of offering Hill along time ago.I think it is important to go after in state talent and keeping a pipeline flowing. Also he is a 4 star across the board!Not a bad consolation prize if Mcquay goes elsewhere.
With or without Hill the pipeline is flowing.
Offering/not offerring Hill would have no impact whatsoever on that pipeline.
You have no idea how this offer would affect future recruiting at Cass Tech. If you think kids, parents, coaches and family members don’t take these things personally you are mistaken. When a kid gets an offer from a school it makes the kid and the coach feel validated. The opposite of that is feeling slighted. If a player/coach feels slighted by a team they may act and talk negatively about that team. Now if they have been given reason to like a school they may keep it positive. Many People around the Cass Tech program are connected. It’s a fairly reasonable assumption that this could affect a future situation.Are 17 and 18 year old kids easily swayed?
The staff is handing out offers at a surprising clip to land 3-4 kids. Does anyone have insight to the 1st, 2nd , etc order for each spot or round?
Here is my guess:
Optimal: Green, treadwell, Dawson
Second Best: McQuay, Reschke, Hunt
Third Best: Dixon, Hill, Lacy
The list would help us allocate points to the final recruits to assess the closing prowess of the staff. We have fallen in the rankings as other programs reach 20+ kids and we missed on several priority recruits at the end last year.
What would the points be based on? Your round thing assumes that the person allocating points actually knows the coaches plans.
First rounders get 5 pts, 2 rounders 4, etc. We could use their Rivals rating but there is minimal point value differential with 5.5-6.0 clustering.
Last year we missed on Garnett, Diamond, Dunne and Kozan in the last 2 months and finished with Johnson, Darboh, Chessun, Henry and Norfleet. Those 5 contributed marginally this year and the WRs might play some next year (although Treadwell is probably more advanced than either of them).
This year already has our losing Conley with 8 wks left and we now have an offering bonanza to grab Illinois, MSU, Cal, and Iowa commits. It's crazy to think we could lose our top 3 to Vandy, Ole Miss, and Tennessee. Raiding the 2nd tier because we lose recruits to the 2nd tier.
We're supposed to be Michigan, fergodsakes.
This whole platform of yours only focuses on the guys late in the process. Most teams lose out on those guys, because they have a list of 5 or so top teams, and pick one. And it totally negates all of the great pick ups we made early in the season. Hoke has been very good at getting top talent to commit early, and by identifying talent before anyone else does. But one of the downfalls of getting lots of commits early is that you get fewer at the end.
How about we just look at how good our class is at the end and not worry about whether they committed in December or February?
Gotta add mcquay to the 'optimal' group
Hill is almost up to 200 pounds and stands about 6'2. Good size. Legit speed for someone his size too. He was a BEAST at The Opening, which had all the top prospects in attendance. Ball-hawk type, and has very good fundamentals IRT tackling, wrapping up, etc. Very good at coming down hill(no pun). He has gotten and is more physical than a year ago.
What about playing with his brother Khalid? This has to be a big pull for him since they are close right.
The Hill brothers you're talking about (Khalid and Khalil) play for East English Village.
Delano Hill is not related, as far as I know.
One thing that is never mentioned when some recruits hold out or wait to decide when it comes to Michigan is that I believe some may fear the higher academic challenge that Michigan provides. Some of these athletes may be a little apprehensive for this reason and that's nothing against them but they are not going to say that as a reason.
Over the last two cycles, Iowa has landed 2 players that had Michigan offers: Greg Garmon (may AIRBHG grant him peace) and Jaleel Johnson. Michigan has landed 18 commits with Iowa offers.
All things being equal, I like our chances.
And Jaleel Johnson probably doesn't even count, since we already had Pipkins at that point, and if we said no to Schutt, we probably would have said the same to Johnson. Garmon is legit.
That said, neither of those guys were from Michigan, so to your point about all things being equal - they're not, and probably in our favor.
And Garmon? He gooooone
any concensus on which is more realistic or higher potential?
That kid's really fucking good so I'd be really happy with him.
More realistic: Delano Hill
Higher potential: Tim Harris
Cass Tech DB offered by Michigan? In other news, water is wet.
Hopefully this kid switches after seeing how awful Iowa was last year. Plus being on the same team as his brother would be a plus.
Already addressed above, Delano & Kahlid Hill are not brothers. Khalid does have a brother in this class - Khalil, but he does not have an offer.