Manny Being Manny
Don't get me wrong, Manny Harris is a very, very good player.
But, what is with all the turnovers (88 including tonight's game)??
Assist to turnover ratio is OK (1.3 which is about 10th in the Big10) but if he could reduce the TOs he would be a much better player.
February 19th, 2009 at 9:55 PM ^
I don't think its at a level where we can complain. He is a Sophomore and is 10th in the Big Ten. Sure it could be better, but he fills the stat sheet in other areas to make up for it. Rebounds, steals, points, assists. He does it all
February 19th, 2009 at 10:00 PM ^
It hasn't been pretty, but where would this team be without him? There is a fine-toothed comb going through his game; a lot of pressure on him to produce. There is a reason why your post isn't "Shepherd being Shepherd."
February 19th, 2009 at 10:00 PM ^
Given that there are 11 teams in the Big Ten, and that each team's main playmaker is usually among the assist leaders, being 10th in A:TO ratio really isn't that good. He definitely needs to work on his ballhandling this offseason.
February 19th, 2009 at 11:51 PM ^
yeah, the point of the earlier post was to say that the fact that our team's main playmaker is a sophomore is an accomplishment in and of itself. I think it's something he'll definitely improve on (if he stays), which I hope he does, because if his game improves year to year as much as it did from last year, he could be a top 5 draft pick, that's obviously a humongous IF though
February 20th, 2009 at 9:09 AM ^
is definitely an accomplishment, but also a reminder that UM is, at least with scholarship players, a very young team.
It sure has been a fun year so far, though, despite the bumps in the road.
February 20th, 2009 at 12:33 PM ^
In today's era, having a sophomore be your main playmaker is pretty normal. MSU's Kalin Lucas is also a soph and he not only is their floor leader, but has a vastly superior A:TO ratio to Manny. I love Manny, but there's no reason for him to be so sloppy with the ball.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:22 PM ^
i thought it was funny to even mention manny harris going to the NBA after this year. the commentators seemed more like comedians then play by play announcers.
they projected him to be a 2nd round draft pick. i dont think manny is close right now to having what it takes to be a substantially good player in the NBA. whats gonna keep him from being a great player is his turnover habits. he needs to keep his composure come game time and not rush things. another year or 2 in ann arbor can help mature manny so he can become a top player in the NBA draft come 2011.
February 20th, 2009 at 12:21 AM ^
DX has him number 55, and that's with all the Euro's they project coming over.
He comes out this year he get a flier in training camp and a dog fight to make a roster.
He come out next year he perhaps gets a guaranteed contract.
Manny is a talented player, it's silly to pretend otherwise. He's by far UM's best player and yes, if he game out this year he's virually guaranteed a spot in an NBA training camp come next September. A roster spot is a different animal though, and for sure Manny would be well served to stay in school.
That said, I don't blame him one bit if he decides to try the league after this year.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:35 PM ^
Reading this I thought we lost the game, jesus. We Won! Woo hoo. Where is the WE WON thread?
February 20th, 2009 at 12:55 AM ^
I was wondering the same I'll make it now.
February 19th, 2009 at 10:36 PM ^
P.S. Kelvin grady had TWELVE POINTS in 14 minutes? Looks like Novak and Douglass had good shooting nights too.
February 20th, 2009 at 1:24 AM ^
Being in the conference top 10 in a statistic is just "OK".
Seriously, considering Manny's usage rate, he's doing just fine. He could stand to take fewer bad shots and he's certainly streaky, but TO rate is really not the thing that's holding him back from being an elite player.
February 20th, 2009 at 9:25 AM ^
I really don't think his turnover rate is that bad, statistically. I think what's frustrating for many (or at least myself) is that you can see when he starts to drive out of control and say "uh-oh" three seconds before he attempts the pass that gets picked. That being said, I can deal with a couple of pretty bad turnovers with the effort he puts forth every night. We would be lucky to even be in the NIT discussion if we didn't have Manny this year.
February 20th, 2009 at 12:42 PM ^
When that statistic is assist:turnover ratio, yes, being ranked tenth in the conference is indeed just OK. There aren't that many good ballhandlers in this league. Manny has committed the second-most turnovers in the league. He can do better than that.
February 20th, 2009 at 1:02 PM ^
When the statistic is assist to turnover ratio, being top 10 in the conference is really quite effing good considering how often he handles the ball. Which is a lot.
That he's had the second-most turnovers in the league is not a great statistic, but again considering his usage rate it is not at all surprising. If one has a good handle on statistics, one should be able to understand that if someone has the ball in their hand all the time, they're going to naturally amass more turnovers than someone who never touches it. I believe Manny touches the ball more than anyone in the conference. If that's the case, then yes he could probably do better than that, but that doesn't mean it's something that is holding him back from being an elite player.
February 20th, 2009 at 3:40 PM ^
He's not really 10th in the conference overall. In fact, he's sixth on our team in this category. He's only 10th in the conference among players who average at least 3.0 assists per game. There aren't that many of those in the league.
February 20th, 2009 at 3:06 AM ^
no manny,no chance. top 5 all time in michigan history.
February 20th, 2009 at 12:43 PM ^
Top 5 all time? That's a stretch, but his is from the same guy who yesterday ripped on Henne for being simply "mediocre."
February 20th, 2009 at 9:12 AM ^
It would be silly for Manny to go pro after this season. He needs some seasoning. If UM does really well next year, Manny will get even more attention and will definitely be a top pick.
I think the announcers seem to want him to go for some reason, but he needs to stay. I wish announcers would do their jobs, study the teams, and come up with something better than "Manny to the NBA."
But that, of course, would require work. Lazy fuckheads.
February 20th, 2009 at 12:52 PM ^
High usage players generally turn the ball over lots. Look at the NBA's leaders in turnovers:
1. Stephen Jackson
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams
4. Dwayne Wade
5. Caron Butler
6. LeBron James
7. Kevin Durant
Among the rest: Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Devin Harris, Paul Pierce, Kobe Bryant are all top 20.
February 20th, 2009 at 1:35 PM ^
Yes, but they also rack up a ton of assists to compensate for it. Manny really doesn't. His seasonlong assist:turnover ratio is a paltry 1.3:1, and in conference play it's even worse.
February 20th, 2009 at 2:27 PM ^
Here is the link:
http://www.nba.com/statistics/player/Turnovers.jsp?league=00&season=220…
1. Stephen Jackson 1.67 (AST/TO)
2. Steve Nash 2.65
3. Deron Williams 2.87
4. Dwayne Wade 2.08
5. Caron Butler 1.37
6. LeBron James 2.27
7. Kevin Durant 0.90 (OUCH!!)
February 20th, 2009 at 3:35 PM ^
OK, they're not all great ballhandlers. Durant's rate sucks, and Butler's and Jackson's aren't that good either. But they also aren't their teams' primary ballhandlers. The others are and look how many more assists they're getting.
Manny is listed as a SF but he's our de facto point guard on offense, given how much of the offense runs through him. The guy you run your offense through should have your best handle. Manny has the sixth-best ratio on the team.
February 21st, 2009 at 1:42 AM ^
I think we can agree that Manny has no business being a PG. He handles the ball out of neccessity - which is why I have a hard time getting upset about his turnover rate - it's a result of pressing a guy into doing something he's not really suited for.