Even Rivals thinks it's a bad idea

Submitted by sman13 on

Rivals has picked up on what the MGoCommunity has been screaming. Splitting up OSU and UM in different divisions of the new Big Ten will weaken the rivalry, ruin the tradition, and ultimately just has to do with money:

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news;_ylt=AsYYAvF3BOrfLiDF05HulIg…

I hope David Brandon sees this article (along with the plethora of posts of of mgoblog users) and rethinks his alleged decision.

Bleedin9Blue

August 23rd, 2010 at 9:50 PM ^

I'm sure that it'll be the comments on MGoBlog that ultimately sway Brandon's decision- not financial projections or people with actual money giving him a talking to.

Seriously, I hope that UM and OSU are in the same division, but right now I'm not banking on it.  If you want hope, then the best article I read to give it to you is this.

CRex

August 23rd, 2010 at 9:53 PM ^

Well if the Michigan fanbase shows an interest in the story, it means it will stay in the news cycle since it generates page views.  You're right though, that in the end money talks.  Hopefully Stephen J. Ross and some of the other big donors will express their displeasure in a concrete manner.

jg2112

August 23rd, 2010 at 9:56 PM ^

Guess what?

Big Ten Expansion weakens the rivalry, ruins tradition, and ultimately just has to do with the money.

Think about it - if you keep MICH and OSU in the same division, they never play for the conference championship again. If you separate them, what, you play twice in two weeks, potentially?

EIther way, bye bye tradition.

It's time to move on. Things do not stay the same forever.

Ernis

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 PM ^

The thing that really irks me about this, is that I've not seen a single, conclusive argument that having UM v OSU face off in consecutive weeks will either:

1) Result in lower net revenue than if the games were separated by a week or more

2) Diminish the meaning of either game

-- the one exception I can think of is the very unlikely occurence that both teams have the championship game locked down regardless of the outcome of their first encounter.

People seem to just assume that having consecutive match-ups is a bad thing .... but, objectively, why?

Blue since birth

August 23rd, 2010 at 11:03 PM ^

That was an epic game with arguably the two best teams in the country. That was the thinking at the time anyway (two best teams).

I think the possibility of winning "The Game" and losing "The rematch" will do far more to diminish the "The Game" than any other scenario... Whether it's back to back,or the game is moved up to earlier in the year(neither option is desirable IMO).

At least if we're in the same division we'll have to go through each other to get to the championship game(assuming neither team already has a lock on the division). There's still the opportunity to play spoiler and/or make your season...Without rematches or any need to move the game.

justthinking

August 24th, 2010 at 3:10 AM ^

"At least if we're in the same division we'll have to go through each other to get to the championship game(assuming neither team already has a lock on the division). There's still the opportunity to play spoiler and/or make your season...Without rematches or any need to move the game."

Congrats BSB, you have hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head. Absolutely nothing else needs to be said or reasoned beyond your point - MUST GO THROUGH EACH OTHER - is KEY! And no need to move the game.

In my eyes, playing OSU "to go on" or "to spoil" as the traditional last regular season game is THE ANSWER.

I have no idea why the UM/OSU AD's & BTEN cannot see that.

jmblue

August 24th, 2010 at 1:17 AM ^

I don't like conference-title rematches for the simple fact that the second meeting effectively whitewashes the outcome of the first.  No one remembers what happened the first time around.  That's all the more true when the second game decides the conference title.  We could win by 30 the first time and lose by a field goal in the rematch and we wouldn't have bragging rights.  And college football is all about playing once a year.  You get your one shot and that's that.  If we'd taken on OSU in a 1996 Big Ten championship game (if one had existed), think we'd have won a second time?  In a climate-controlled dome, Shawn Springs probably wouldn't slip again.  And if we'd lost the rematch, no one would even remember that epic first win.  This is a case where you can have too much of a good thing.  One meeting a year (and only in Ann Arbor or Columbus - no NFL stadiums) keeps it special. 

(As for the specific issue of playing back-to-back weeks vs. playing a month apart, that makes no difference to me.  The conference just seems to have arbitrarily decided that that's "bad" for some reason.)

Ernis

August 24th, 2010 at 2:08 AM ^

Solid points, for sure. I tend to agree, in fact-- ideally M and OSU would be in the same division and things would be kept mostly intact, just adding a championship game after The Game.

My point was assuming that we would play twice. Under that circumstance, at least keeping the original game to the end of the season, I think, would be a fine concession to the many (probably a vast majority of) fans who are clearly upset about the whole thing.

jmblue

August 24th, 2010 at 12:56 AM ^

When you've divided a conference into two divisions, you've practically created two mini-conferences.  I do not have a problem with the notion that we technically will never clinch the conference against OSU if we're in the same division.  We can clinch the division against them.  I don't see that as a huge difference.  (I'm also not a huge fan of conference title games to begin with.  Playing OSU on a neutral site, in an NFL stadium, would be very weird anyway.) 

I do, however, see playing OSU in October, in a non-divisional game, as a much bigger break with tradition.  To me there is no comparison between the two options.  (I'm assuming the third option - being separated but playing the last week - is off the table.)

Brodie

August 24th, 2010 at 1:19 AM ^

I'd rather be in the same division and play a meaningful game every year for the division title than be in separate divisions and play for the conference title once a decade. There's tweaking a tradition slightly and then there's ass fucking a tradition with a chainsaw. You seem to favor the latter.

jerseyblue

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:00 PM ^

If this happens it's just another example of money beating out what's good for the health of a sport. (Examples: Expandng NFL season to 18 games, kids not being able to stay up to see the end of postseason baseball games, NCAA tournament expansion,  meaningless bowl games instead of a playoff, yada, yada,.) When the TV execs say drop 'em and bend over the guardians of our sports obey every time. Brandon's just their latest bitch and he won't be the last.

InterWebZ-Troll

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:06 PM ^

Since I have only been a fan for 15ish years. I reverse what I said earlier about it was okay to put UofM & OSU in different divisions. I have learned a lot looking deeper into the past. I can see where the "old faith full" are coming from. I can see how changing something with so much culture would be bad.

I do hope that a petition could be filed. So at least if nothing else we can try to mandate the UofM and OSU stay in the same conference. That they play the last game of the year and may possibly determine who is the national champion. There has to be a someone in the Big 10 with the balls to organize a group to at least let the peoples voices be heard.  

Thanks for all you guys have been teaching me. My apologies for anyone I may have offended for not truly understanding what the rivalry meant to you all. 

Hoek

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:11 PM ^

UM,OSU,PSU in the east. UN,UW,Iowa in the west. this makes sense then split the rest up any way you want. If the Big Ten dosn't care about splitting up UM and OSU then why do they care about keeping other rivals in the same division. It would suck not to play OSU for a confrence title but I would rather keep the game the last week of the year.

Zone Left

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:13 PM ^

From Mr Swindle at EDSBS:

THE CRACK-UP. Divining of chicken innards and statements by various Big Ten types has Blog Ten leaning towards a likely divisional split between Ohio State and Michigan. As a fan of a conference mostly divided between two powers for the past decade, trust us when we say that If/when Michigan recovers, you dowant this split, though not without some guarantee of the game being played with some regularity during the season. Otherwise you're looking at a potential Big 12 North situation with divisional imbalance, though not on the ghettofied scale you've seen in the Big 12. 

I tend to agree with this sentiment.  I'm still not convinced Nebraska can consistently recruit well enough today to stay relevant and Penn State will eventually have to undergo a coaching transition that may, or may not, be difficult.

bronxblue

August 23rd, 2010 at 10:17 PM ^

Again, it is highly unlikely that both UM and OSU would play at the end of the year and then for the championship the next game, so keeping it at the end makes sense just for consistency and tradition.  At the same time, though, I'm not against the game moving around a bit just for some variety.  I mean, the Big House never had lights for a night game, and now people are super-excited about the possibilities.  It doesn't mean every game will now start at 7, but sometimes a bit of variety can infuse some life into a matchup that in recent years has grown a bit stale.

tpilews

August 24th, 2010 at 12:49 AM ^

I went back through the last 25 years to look at just that. With the divisions split for competitive balance, UM and osu would have faced each other 6 times in the CG. That's 24%. Now, when you throw Nebraska into the mix, which would be in the division with UM, that percentage would obviously go down. Nebraska has the second highest winning percentage for the past 20 years of all the teams in the Big10.

Here are the years for those interested:

2007, 2006, 2003, 1992, 1989 (osu finished 4th in the conference, but assuming Illinois and MSU are in the same division as UM, osu gets the nod for their division), 1986.

Personally, I'd rather watch UM and osu play for the Big10 championship than the right to play for the championship.

jmblue

August 24th, 2010 at 1:04 AM ^

But do you really want to watch them play for the title at Lucas Oil Field, in a result that effectively invalidates whatever happened in the first meeting? 

I want there to be one game between the teams, at Michigan Stadium or Ohio Stadium, per year.  No neutral sites, no do-overs.  You win, you have bragging rights (and probably the division title).  You lose, you wait until next year.   That's how it's gone for a century, and judging from the fact that it's routinely called the top rivalry in the country, why change that?   

tpilews

August 24th, 2010 at 6:53 AM ^

A second game won't invalidate anything. The game happened. Just because two teams play again doesn't mean the win/loss just goes away. I have a hard time believing too many of you wouldn't be pumped as hell to go see UM and osu play for the Big 10 championship at a neutral site. Hell, I'd probably fly up from Tampa to watch that. And I'd be even more pumped for that game regardless of what happened in the first.

If the opportunity should arise that UM could beat a good/great osu squad twice in one season, I can't imagine too many people not wanting that. I know I'd love to see that.

gbdub

August 24th, 2010 at 1:27 AM ^

Why does everyone keep saying that a rematch "invalidates" the first game? Unless the FBS goes to a real playoff, 12-1 will always be very different from 13-0. Both games will have meaning, especially when game one is played at the Big House or the Shoe. 

tommytufnuts

August 24th, 2010 at 3:43 AM ^

I'm confused; why does this matter? The rematch won't happen unless they both make it to the conference championship. If Michigan and Ohio State play once earlier in the year or in the last week of the regular season and both make it to the conference championship, they're probably both great teams (likely the best in the conference). A rematch between the two best teams in the conference championship, given that there will be a conference championship, is well worth it.

gbdub

August 24th, 2010 at 9:57 AM ^

In the long term, it doesn't look like it matters. But at the time, when the National Championship picture was much more fluid, each game definitely matters. So yes, it may "invalidate" the result, but only after the fact, and only in certain very rare situations.

For example, in 2006 there was no way of knowing that USC was going to fall to UCLA - a 1-loss Big Ten champion Michigan may not have been a holy lock for the NC game. And let's be honest, OSU and UofM were a bit overrated on the national scale that year, at least based on the inability to beat the national cream of the crop.

2006 was a highly unusual situation - OSU and UofM were consensus 1-2, both were undefeated, and a 1 loss team was basically guaranteed to make the NC game. Also, a 2-loss Michigan or Ohio State team probably still would have landed a BCS bid.That's not that common - essentially all of those stars need to align for a rematch to make game 1 truly meaningless.  This will be rare enough that the situation will be more interesting than lame. And again, game 1 is only meaningless in retrospect - at the time, game 1 will, in all likelihood, still have a lot of meaning. It will still be exciting, both teams will still play to win, and both fanbases will still show up.

Ernis

August 24th, 2010 at 11:14 AM ^

If you care more about the past, then your rationale makes sense.

However, I think the main issue is how much the games matter leading up to them. I don't think the teams, the fans, or the TV ratings would slack just because people know there may be another matchup... at a neutral field... in the near future.

Once it's in the past, it's history. Doesn't matter in and of itself; it's just one more notch in the record books, like any other. Wins/losses are not discounted because they are further in the past. All are equal, which means the most recent wins are no more significant than the oldest, if you are evaluating the situation retrospectively.

And bragging rights? Really? How about "get a clue". Unless you are a part of the program, you have nothing to brag about because you did not contribute. You are not a participant. You are a fan. The team puts in the work. You get to watch the results of their preparation one day a week -- it's a privilege.

Like I said before, unless the rematch in the title game is a lock before the initial game is even played (which I think would be significantly rarer than the chance of a rematch), then the first game does mean something no matter what. If OSU beats M to earn the right to play in the B10 title game, then M beats them for the title, how does that invalidate the first game? OSU would not have even had a shot at the title had they not won the initial matchup; the opportunity, and I think any rational person would agree, is worth something.

And even if the rematch is a given, then the initial game is something for the record books, if nothing more. From a backward-thinking perspective, that is quite meaningful. After all, the only "bragging privileges" M fans have re: OSU, at the moment, are derived from wins that are mostly a decade or more old.

Yet, from a forward-thinking perspective, there is only one thing that matters: The next game. This is the perspective of winners, of champions: those who create the future instead of dwell in the past.

AZBlue

August 24th, 2010 at 2:46 AM ^

I know we all have strong feeling about "The Game" but a lot of this (to my ears) is very similar to:

"OMG RichRod is gonna kill the #1 jersey tradition!!!!11!!!111!!!"

which leads to:

"Down in front!!!....Damn Kids!!!!"

 

Lead, follow, or get out of the way people - this is just the first step in the new Big 10 (12) soon to be 16.......

michiganfanforlife

August 24th, 2010 at 9:11 AM ^

is that if you split us up into two conferences, we won't play every year. Who is going to make sure we even get to play? With a 12 team conference, each team will not play 4 others in the opposite division. If this is everyone but OSU, then we will keep the rivalry intact, but will they set it up like this? Put me down for staying in the same division as OSU, and keep the Big One at the end of the year like it should be.