Defense and player developement

Submitted by Farnn on

I've been thinking about the defensive problems we're had this year and started to think about how the blame could actually lie with the old staff rather than the new one.  Is it possible that while English was a capable defensive coordinator on game days but that he was lacking in the player development area?  He was only DC for the 2006-2007 seasons and additionally was the safeties coach during that period.  He inherited a very capable group of players, and was able to do well with them, but we haven't seen very much out of those players who came in during his time here.  I know many of them are still young, but I'd think you'd see more out of them than we have.

This situation would be similar to what we saw at ND last year, where Wies could coach already developed players his first two seasons, but after that his team was garbage when those players left.

 

Anyone have any insight on this?  Its hard to tell with only being able to look at the program from the outside, but this seems like a possible explanation to me.

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sedieso

October 28th, 2008 at 2:19 PM ^

English has turned one of the worst defenses in the nation last year at Lousiville and has made them into a good group this year so I wouldn't put too much blame on him

Joined: 09/12/2008

MGoPoints: 563

Magnus

October 28th, 2008 at 2:20 PM ^

No, this is not possible.  Last year, for example, we got production from cornerbacks Morgan Trent and Donovan Warren.  And our safety play was better (once Englemon replaced Brown) than this year's.  The problems are multiple this year.  They start with scheme and continue with fundamentals.  In my opinion, Tony Gibson must be a horrible DB coach.  He's got talented players at every position in the secondary, but we're not making tackles, pass deflections, or INT's on a consistent basis.  Ron English was/is a good coach who was hamstrung by poor linebackers in 2007 (outside of Crable).  I think one/some of the defensive coaches might get the ax in the off-season.

Joined: 07/17/2008

MGoPoints: 166007

PattyMax64

October 28th, 2008 at 3:40 PM ^

I agree with Magnus.  Gibson has only produced 11 All-Conference performances (only 8 in D 1-A), an one All-American (Pacman Jones, who would be an AA under any coach in college).  His last AA or All-Conference player was in 2005, which is a long way off. I think that somebody head must roll after this season, not because they did a bad job, or they deserve necessarily to be fired, but because the masses need some blood to be spilled for the results we have seen.

Also, Gibson ran a 3-3-5 in WV.  This is his first time in a kong time teaching these principles and it also brings those Conference and AA numbers into further question.  WIth 5 possibilities each year, those are very poor numbers.

The likelihood he will be fired is low, as Gibson played for Rich Rod at Glenville St. and has been with him for a while.  He is also an Assistant Head Coach.

Joined: 07/21/2008

MGoPoints: 293

jamiemac

October 28th, 2008 at 4:44 PM ^

He is one of the dumbest football players ever. And, I mean on field dumb.

I love RR.......but I also know that me and my fellow gambling cronies used to label his teams circa 2003-2004 as the dumbest in college football because of selfish play, poor assignment footbal and a bevy, no make that plethora, no make that myriad of drop balls, penalties at key times and overall bone head plays.

Now, mind you the team leaders then were Jone on D and Chris effing Henry on O.

Once those guys left the program, its interesting how much more of a well oiled machine they became on both sides of the ball.

I dont know how much coaching any of them did with Pacman. The guy did not want to be coached. And, it still shows today.

I would love to hyptotize RR and ask him his thoughts on Mr Pac Man.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 8446

WolvinLA

October 30th, 2008 at 2:16 PM ^

that posted twice.  But I looked it up.  A plethora is an excess or overabundance.  A myriad is an indefinitely great number (except in Greek, where it means, literally, 10,000).  So by those definitions I'd say you're right.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 875

umjaker310

October 28th, 2008 at 3:04 PM ^

Yes, I concur RR should have kept a few more of Lloyd's staff, Loeffler and English come to mind and should have been allowed them to keep their jobs, Scott Loeffler had to be the top QB coach in college football with developing so many NFL QB's, even though the style of QB was changing, I believe he could have adapted to RR's offense and possibly helped sway Mallett to stay. English's 2006 defense was among the best and last year they made changes and got rid of cancerous players like Johnny Sears and showed vast improvement. English is not at fault IMO.

Joined: 10/14/2008

MGoPoints: 17

jamiemac

October 28th, 2008 at 4:48 PM ^

Perhaps the least reported stoy in MSM, yet worst kept secret on the street is the fact that Mallett was likley going to transfer.

If for some reason, Carr had stayed, then RM's tranfer liklihood would have increased.

I can handle criticism of our new leader, but I bristle when people constantly say he and/or his system ran off Ryan Mallett. The kid did not want to be here either way and he kinda showed it in his attitude towards the town, coaches and fellow teammates.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 8446

Farnn

October 28th, 2008 at 5:17 PM ^

Guess its just me with this idea, though many on the defense seem to lack fundamental football skills which the upperclassmen should have learned before these defensive coaches came on board.

Joined: 07/07/2008

MGoPoints: 12788

mjv

October 28th, 2008 at 11:32 PM ^

I think the world of Loef as a QB coach, but he probably would not have been the best fit for a QB coach in this offense.  While I'm not saying the would not have been able to learn the offense in time, he would have needed to have been coached before he could have coached the players. 

There is a lot that the QB does in this iteration of the Spread offense that Loeffler has no experience with.

Now if he will just get away from the sinking ship that is the Lions.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 3656

imafreak1

October 29th, 2008 at 11:17 AM ^

If I ever get nostalgic for English, and I doubt I will, all I have to do is remember this 4 game stretch--2006 OSU, USC leading into 2007 ASU, Oregon. Worst 4 game stretch ever for a UM defense. If RR decided he'd seen enough that's good enough for me.

Joined: 07/02/2008

MGoPoints: 2844

TorontoBlue

October 29th, 2008 at 5:21 PM ^

do you think the "wolf" poem the defense always did as a group b4 games died with the coaching transition?  if it's a tradition that was dropped - maybe it's time for it to return?

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 956

spartyNO

October 30th, 2008 at 12:03 AM ^

They still recite, which I think is cool.  Terrance Taylor said they still do it in an issue of The Wolverine and that he would like to see it continue after the seniors graduate.

Joined: 07/16/2008

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