Crystal balls pouring in for Rod Moore, 3 star S from OH
Story from Lorenz on 247 https://247sports.com/college/michigan/Article/Michigan-Wolverines-Football-recruiting-is-trending-for-2021-safety-Rod-Moore-Don-Brown-Bob-Shoop-Jim-Harbaugh-247Sports-Crystal-Ball-146987918/
Rod Moore, a 3 star Safety from Clayton, OH at Northmont. He's the #12 ranked player in OH.
Every crystal ball he has has come in today from Sam Webb, Lorenz, Wiltfong and Allen Trieu.
Listed as "warm" on his offer list are Michigan, Cincinnati, Indiana, Kentucky and Pitt.
He also has an ND offer.
According to 247 he will announce tomorrow.
Interesting. The article you link shows Michigan with the 5th best winning percentage in the 1970s an also the 5th best in the 1980s.
I had seen in the past an article with Michigan having the no. 1 winning percentage in the 1970s. It could have been based on regular season games only, as Bo did poorly in bowl games in the 70s.
Either way, even if your source is more accurate, the general point remains. Michigan was elite in the 1970s and also the 1980s.
That could be it; I'm honestly not sure. He also didn't make a bowl in 4 of those 10 years, so who knows.
I guess I don't get what is considered "elite" anymore around here. In the 1980s Michigan went 10-2, 9-3, 8-4, 9-3, 6-6, 10-1-1, 11-2, 8-4, 9-2-1, 10-2, 9-3. That's...fine. The finished a season ranked in the top-10 6 times, which is impressive though at the same time there were years where the Big 10 was pretty bad (for example, the 1988 year they finished #4 they beat exactly two ranked teams and only two others with winning records (some 6-5-1/6-4-2 MSU and Iowa outfits). I'd argue the conference is much tougher now top-to-bottom than the Big 10 during a lot of that era, and in particular OSU is much more of a juggernaut now than they were for parts of the 70s and 80s.
I think my general point stands; Michigan has never been a consistently elite program. They've been really good for long stretches, but I will push against this notion that Jim Harbaugh has somehow underperformed Michigan's historical average as a program (hell, Bill Connelly tweeted to begin the year that he's got it at UM's historical peak). It's just that other programs seemingly have higher ceilings, or at least higher peaks.
O.k., maybe I will avoid quibbling over the word 'elite,' which I suppose can be defined by different people different ways.
But...it seems to me that 70s-90s Michigan was easily within the top ten, and probably top 6, programs. Some years were worse than others. But over three ten year spans Michigan really was a top level program.
Yeah, at any given moment there were have been programs that were at the very pinnacle (Nebraska, Miami, Holtz era ND, USC, etc., etc. took turns at the very top), but Michigan was a top 5 or 6 program in terms of win percentage in each of those decades.
And that is way ahead of Michigan under JH (so far at least). I am not a JH basher, just realistic. He has under-achieved so far, but not by a huge amount (at least in terms of win % though 0-5 against OSU is another matter...), and at least has Michigan in the 8-15 range.
Every year is a new year
"They had the 14th class in the nation last year"
Ok first of all that is the bare minimum that pretty much any power 5 coach could accomplish at Michigan, so talking about it as if it's some kind of accomplishment is beyond baffling. Do you know what the #14 class would have ranked in the SEC last year? Eighth. So let it sink in that we are recruiting like a middle of the pack SEC school and paying our coach 8 million a year to do it. Also, recruiting has gotten to the point where there is a massive gap between a top 10 class and a top 5 class. Paying a coach top 3 money to recruit this poorly relative to how he should is criminal. Harbaugh hasn't signed a top 100 recruit in two of the last three years. AT MICHIGAN. Are you fucking kidding me? And his recruiting on defense is middle of the big ten at best. Be prepared for OSU to regularly score 50, 60, 70 on us if this keeps up. This is just a pathetic ass job by this coaching staff. Get Zordich, Nua, Shoop, and all the losers on that side of the ball the fuck out of here.
On your national title point, it's clear you lack a basic understanding of how college football worked prior to the BCS. First of all UM has several national titles between 47 and 97 that they didn't claim. Titles were often voted on before bowl games. It was a regional sport. That said Bo won the conference 13 times and had 17 top ten finishes. 17! And most of those were top 5. UM was a fucking powerhouse.
Harbaugh does not have UM winning at a higher rate than its historical average so stop lying. Moreover not all wins are created equal. Carr was 29-6 vs UW, PSU, and MSU. He was 20-8 against top 10 teams. He beat OSU six times. Harbaugh is 8-6 against those teams and 2-11 against top 10 teams. He's 0-5 against OSU on his way to 0-7 before his contract expires. He needs to go 2-5 in the next 7 years to be John fucking Cooper. I know I'm repeating myself but get it thru your skull and stop trying to rewrite history that Harbaugh is doing something special here when he's not. He's not Bo or Mo or Lloyd. He's better than Rich rod and Hoke. High bar right there. Sarcasm.
So do me a favor and spare me the lecture on UM football history when its clear I know more than you. 8 mil a year for this shit and people want to defend it. Unfathomable.
Wait a minute, are you signing Harbaugh’s paycheck?!? No wonder you’re so pissed off.
Your negativism is somewhat exaggerated.
OTOH, the general idea you are always advancing seems basically correct. JH is under performing, especially in recruiting, and Michigan has a higher ceiling that what JH has done so far.
That seems basically correct to me. The rest are just details.
Na Na Na Na.
Na. Na. Na. Na.
hey hey hey
goodbye.
a song for another $5 wasted Maizen. Never change.
Tell me the coaches you would rather have recruiting at Michigan and then tell them there’s no bag to work with. Let me know how that goes.
Since you know Michigan’s football history so well, I need not remind you that from 2001 - 2007 Lloyd Carr was 1 - 6 vs OSU and 2 - 5 in bowl games.
I’m thankful Lloyd was Michigan’s coach, but he got his taste of the current OSU experience just like every coach since him has.
When will you admit OSU is willing to cheat on a far greater scale than Michigan is and that is the real reason for the difference in results recruiting and on the field?
Oh Maizen, I'm glad to see you're back. And that the stimulus check is being put to good use supporting this site.
I'm not going to get into a long-term debate with someone who got banned on Twitter for stalking recruits, but dry humping recruiting rankings as the be-all, end-all for a team is dumb. OSU's astounding 2020 class would have been 4th in the SEC, and they're closer to 6th than 3rd by that metric. Yet I doubt OSU fans are losing sleep over it. If you've got some idea on how to fix that inequity beyond "fire their asses" by all means share with the class.
I understand how unclaimed titles worked, I also know UM has only 5 unclaimed and only 3 between the 1940s and 1997. Two were during Bo's run, the 1973 season marred by the fact (a) they tied OSU (which had gone undefeated as well), and (b) they only beat two teams all season with a winning record while ND beat 4, including former #1 Alabama. Yes, politics involved there but they still didn't beat the one ranked team they played at home. 1985 was a very good year for Michigan but their early wins wound up being less impressive (ND and SC both finished under .500) and losing to Iowa (the #1 team at the time yes) and tying Illinois 3-3 (which was decidedly not a good team) hurt them. So fine, give them half a title that year. Congrats. That's two sorta-titles, each with good reasons why they weren't granted to him. And that doesn't even go into how different college football was in the 70s and early 80s and the other equally-dominant programs that existed.
The historical average is just math, man. Harbaugh's winning percentage at UM is 72.3%; removing him from the equation Michigan's winning percentage is 71.4%. And that's including a lot of pre-1900's wins; include from the Fitz years on (when they did national rankings) and we're at 70%.
Like I said, the first half of Bo's run the school was near-elite. But that's not been UM's history since the 1940s, no matter how much you want to scream about it. Nobody is saying Harbaugh is doing something amazing, and me pointing out that UM hasn't been some juggernaut doesn't change that. But assholes like you screaming "this is UNACCEPTABLE!!!" a billion times are just showing your asses about how little you know about past and current college football. And I get why that would be hard for you seeing as how you apparently can't find anywhere else willing to listen to you except a blog that repeatedly bans you for being an obnoxious, toxic user. Hell, it got to the point that they started charging you $5 for the right to boot you later, and you keep paying into it.
I'd engage more but you'll be banned soon enough and come back with another dumb name and we'll get back into something else. But rest assured you aren't smarter than the rest of us.
I've espoused this same sentiment numerous times and it's always met with the same vitriol you're going to receive. Doesn't mean it isn't true.
ALL the frustration stems from not beating Ohio State. And looking in to the future, it seems impossible that we can beat them. 3-17 in the last 20 years almost is incomprehensible to type. The program has never been less competitive with the Buckeyes than right now. It seems like Ohio State coaches recruit like their life depends on it. Everything in their program is geared toward bring in elite, hyper athletic freaks of nature. Michigan is chasing scrappy, hard working dudes that simply can’t keep up with 5 star players. It’s stunning with all Michigan can offer that they don’t land better players
"It seems like Ohio State coaches recruit like their life depends on it."
It's funny you say that....one of my buddies is an Ohio HS Head Coach. When Meyer took the job down there, he invited me to go to their State Clinic to hear them and a bunch of other coaches from across the country speak. So I went.
Synopsis from Meyer: 1. Recruiting is the #1 thing we do, not coaching, not game-planning. Recruiting. If you aren't an elite recruiter, you can't work at Ohio State. 2. Their plan was to take 7 to 10 FB players from Ohio AND recruit Michigan HARD because "those kids understand the rivalry". 3. No matter how well the team does, your salary is determined by how well you RECRUIT. Recruit great, big raise....recruit like shit, no raise. 4. If it is 2 AM and you are lying in bed with your wife and a recruit calls you, you better pick up that phone. 5. Every day we have our coaches meetings in the morning, the first HOUR is all about recruiting. First thing we do. Every day. Not practice planning, not game planning. Recruiting.
I gotta admit, it shook me up, because this is when I knew we were in trouble. Hoke was a great guy and a very good recruiter, but Meyer was at a different level. A do or die level.
And who has been trained by Meyer? Ryan Day.
So when I heard recently that our staff isn't having daily recruiting meetings (whether that is true or not), it worries me...I won't lie. Hopefully, that's not true. And I recently read that since the start of this pandemic that Coach Harbaugh has made 300 phone calls to recruits. So that is good.
FWIW, I think we should look at elite recruiting schools and see what they are doing. Hell, talk to Mack Brown. In one year, he has already started to turn around NC recruiting in a BIG way. If nothing else, try to make sure we are "cutting edge".
After all, to me, that is what "Leaders and Best" is all about. Innovation. And I'm hoping we do all that WITH Jim Harbaugh remaining our Head Coach, because he does a lot of things the RIGHT way.
Or psu and wisconsin on the road.
Yep, it's not just about OSU. It's the inability to win a big game on the road. It's doing markedly worse against PSU / Wisc / and even MSU than Bo or Lloyd did. And if we keep recruiting defense the way we are, we're going to have trouble against PSU and Wisconsin at home, too.
OSU has improved to an elite level. Wisconsin has at the very least stayed Wisconsin. PSU has finished ahead of us in 3 of 5 Harbaugh seasons. So, OSU isn't our measuring stick anymore, and we're not even markedly better than PSU -- in fact we are a bit behind them as well. And don't sleep on Minnesota, they are improving as well.
Now, we have a better, more modern offensive scheme hopefully firing on all cylinders in year 2. But other than that, our program seems very much like one whose leaders are comfortable. And our rivals -- aside from MSU -- are all improving. Hopefully we can keep up.
We best beat PSU and Wisconsin at home. Otherwise it's 8-4 again.
"The coaching staff has basically given up trying to obtain elete talent and the fans have accepted it as being ok."
This is horseshit on both points.
"The staff has given up on getting elite talent."
Do you know how stupid that statement is?
It is tough to come to acceptance. I was in high school and college during the “Carr Years”. The NFL talent in those teams (both sides of the ball) were ridiculous. That’s what I grew up watching and grew into being a Michigan fan.
It is painful to look at our offense now and the lack of talent, when under Carr, every single starting QB, RB and #1 WR got drafted. Every single one.
I think it is hyperbolic to say our talent / recruiting is “unacceptable”, but it is also hyperbolic to say our talent today isn’t different than what it used to be and that it is only compared to OSU “of today” that makes us look so bad. We aren’t a bad team, but we aren’t anywhere as talented as the teams under Carr. Perhaps more should have been done with that talent.
At this point you might as well recruit nobody three stars from OH with massive chips on their shoulders who are absolutely pissed about getting overlooked by OSU and want to prove the whole world wrong. That worked for MSU and allowed them to score two massive upsets over OSU.
I don’t know if that’s the right strategy. I just know that whatever Michigan has been doing for the last 20 years hasn’t been working, so what do they have to lose by trying something else?
If this doesn’t work, is losing by 40 that much different than losing by 25-30?
Why are you trying to reason with him? Just tell him he’ll die alone and it’ll be months before anyone notices and then move on with your day.
I actually don't disagree with that strategy and it might work.
I just laugh at the 'trust the coaches" contingent of our fan base who gets excited when we beat out Ball State and Northern Kentucky for a recruit that OSU wouldn't offer if Fickle was still their HC.
I just laugh at people from Ohio who post weird videos of their wife working out and drinking peanut smoothies on sports blog.
You win the internet
1. I'm from Michigan (grew up in Pontiac, went to Cranbrook) and went to Michigan and graduated from Michigan. But I live in Ohio because of work.
2. I have never posted a video of my wife drinking peanut smoothies that I remember. If I did can you post the link cause I'd like to watch it cause I think my wife is super nice.
First and foremost Id like to personally thank you for your response, really thank you.
id like apologize for calling you a Ohioan, simple misunderstanding, due to to you talking about the browns for some inexplicable reason all the time. I mean I’m a raiders fan, but not a peep out of me about it.
Lastly I have no such proof, nor am I taking any shots at your wife. I just remember back in the glory mgoblog days you had that weird tag to ‘inshapewife’ or whatever. I mean I’m sure you were just being a good husband and supporting her bullshit hobby, but still you have to get the perspective of someone who would think that was super fucking weird. I’m not sure why but I felt that making fun of you for it, prob because you came off douchy like you knew better that a bunch of lesser thans or something. Anywho to each their own.
Wait, what? Who likes peanut smoothies ?
Hasn’t the “trust the coaches” meme been around since the days we were trying to see through the fog of the Three Star Mafia days?
I had to listen to "trust the coaches" when I was bitching about the lack of LB and OL recruits RR was taking. It gets old.
Beyond the 3-17, hard to “trust the coaches” when we get brilliant scheme like the Don Brown Special- where we inexplicably run a zero blitz on 3rd and 25, leaving our LB or slowest safety matched up on the opposing team’s 4.4 speedster slot receiver who everyone and their mom knows is running a go route.
It's not the right strategy if you've paid any attention to MSU's football program over the last 4 years. Talent wise it's fallen off a cliff. They had two draft picks this year. Also this is Michigan not MSU, we shouldn't be adopting recruiting policies reserved for mid tier power 5 schools. We are a blueblood, we have so much to sell, and yet our coaching staff thinks it's at Iowa State.
At this point you might as well fire the entire defensive staff and start over. Recruiting chops should be the #1 emphasis in every hire. We all realize we have a bunch of loser coaching our defense right? Like Bob Shoop and Zordich can't recruit worth shit. Brown is Brown. Nua has been a huge disappointment. But ultimately the blame is on Harbaugh for failing to hire hire guys who can go out and beat other top programs for elite talent. He got guys on offense who can do that, but defensively this is fucking pitiful.
Simple - yet accurate logic. UM can’t beat OSU the last 20, so why not do the opposite. I think their is a Seinfeld episode about this topic .....
Totally agree with you.
If YOU'RE "fairly certain," then it must be so. Tar and feathers for all of 'em!
I know this guy is an idiot, and I know you can't predict the future (except that any 5 star RB Michigan gets is going to be a problem), but an objective observer would look at other team's defensive recruits much more favorably than this.
Edit: And by other teams, I mean teams that can actually football. Harbaugh has at the very least gotten the team to a point where you don't watch Akron with panic.
I agree that defensive recruiting has been bad, but you lose me when you freak out that they may not get Buddin (295) and act like it’s the worst thing ever, but then getting a guy 75ish spots behind him is pure garbage. You come on here a rip literally everything. If they get this commit, that is not the time to come with your ‘the sky is falling’ routine.
You should be fired over your calamity.
Michigan hasn’t really been good at football for 20+ years. When you say “at Michigan “ you can like we deserve something. Nothing makes Michigan more appealing than Wisconsin, Notre Dame, or any other Midwest school. It’s harder to ever to recruit kids to go to school in the gloomy Midwest. I would go to Georgia just like everyone else
Having just relocated back to the Midwest from Atlanta (I was there for work for a few years), I'm thrilled to back in the gloomy Midwest. The South just wasn't for me but to each their own.
To be fair Atlanta is a better place to visit than live
Nah Michigan has been good just not consistently. We all recognize they made two bad coaching hires. Once guy could coach and not recruit (remember all the idiots here defending those tiny OL, DL, WR, and RB recruits?) and the other guy could recruit and not coach. Harbaugh can clearly coach but he can only beat the teams he has more talent than. The problem is UM has fallen so far behind OSU talent wise that they can't make it up n coaching anymore. Michigan on defense right now is currently recruiting no better than Maryland, Iowa, Northwestern, Minnesota, etc. Let that fucking sink in. What on earth do people think is going to happen when OSU's five stars go up against our 3 stars. Brandon Watson is what happens.
Recruiting stinks right now. Lets all admit it.
I don’t disagree completely with you, but Michigan has never recruited on the level OSU is currently. So its hard to compare historical Michigan teams to the current OSU standard, and then blame Harbaugh.
either way he’s not going anywhere before the end of this recruiting cycle so let it play out. Annoying, repetitive shitting on high school students is fucking lame.
"Michigan has never recruited on the level OSU is currently"
False. Michigan regularly recruited top 5 classes under Moeller and Carr. Don't speak on shit you know nothing about junior.
junior? That’s just straight disrespectful.
I’d say scouting has changed dramatically number one. Number two look at the players osu is reeling in currently, Michigan doesn’t have classes with three of the top five @ a position.
Furthermore Lloyd’s best class (one could argue anyways) was 0-4 v OSU, so who fucking cares if they were ranked high or low.
You can’t change the goalposts because they were ranked high and lost to OSU.
youre a joke bro.
That’s what Maizen does though. Bitches about Harbaugh not recruiting as well as Lloyd and not beating OSU, while ignoring that Lloyd really sucked against Tressel and OSU with all of his amazing recruiting classes. Maizen contradicts himself all the time. I like when he does it in a matter of sentences though. Ah, what a tool
Does it really matter is Carr under under-achieved or not?
And does it really matter that OSU is recruiting better than they ever have previouslyover the last 5-6 years?
Isn't the only question that is relevant whether JH has maxed out MIchigan's ceiling in recruiting and on-flield results?
And who car argue that he has? He has not. He's got Michigan somewhere at the 8th-15th best program in the nation.
Not bad. But that really is below Michigan's current theoretical ceiling as a program, which really is a consistent top ten team (though perhaps not a consistent top four team).
Even if Harbaugh can’t bring in 5 star talent, shouldn’t his coaching acumen make up for it? After all, he’s been a major D1 player, NFL player, NFL coach who’s got to the Super Bowl...you’d think he’d be “smarter” then Ryan Day, Paul Chryst, James Franklin, or whoever he’s plays in a bowl game. But it doesn’t seem to matter. He’s not out-recruiting anyone or out-smarting anyone.
It’s funny to be that people claim Franklin is much better results wise than Harbaugh. Michigan murdered them at home twice, got smack there once and lost a tight game last year. Franklin won one big ten title on a tie breaker with the flukiest win against OSU. And recruiting has been pretty even
It's funny that people think this is evidence that Harbaugh is doing a good job. Lloyd Carr beat PSU 9 straight times. They went through the worst sex scandal in history. And they do not have the national brand that UM does to sell, and yetFranklin is maximizing his ceiling there. That's the fucking point you idiots don't get.