Coach Howard will learn from this
We already know that Coach Howard is open to modifying his approach on the court with regards to Xs and Os.
He’s also shown this ability in recruiting by picking up 2-3 year players ranked in the 40s-80s in case the McDonalds All-Americans don’t sign the dotted line. (See: Williams and Dickinson)
Still hasn’t been on the job for a year and the recruiting class is #1 in the BIG without JC and Todd.
I’ll be curious to see how he modified his approach with the 2021 recruiting class. It’s looking to be even more important than 2020.
One would hope.
this really needed its own thread!
You’re really complaining about threads related to Michigan sports after the non-Michigan related stuff that’s been posted during the quarantine? Kick rocks.
I, for one, would rather read insightful posts such as this.
But, you know, that's just my opinion, man.
In true Ron Burgundy fashion he's not complaining - he used an exclamation point. He is excited it has it's own thread. Just like in the movie when they have a question mark on the teleprompter and he ends his new cast with "I'm Ron Burgundy?" and gives the strange look; then the director goes nuts because they put the question mark on the teleprompter.
GO BLUE!
Don't think there's anything to learn. Dumb luck happened. We were very close to getting both of them.
There's plenty that can be learned from this.
- Maybe going after players that are flirting with going overseas is not the wisest option
- Maybe going after players who are milking their recruitment of all possible attention, followers, likes is not the wisest option
- Talent is just as important as culture, program fit, and roster stability
I don't agree at all.
When Howard took Todd he only had Zeb Jackson in the class and he had committed to Beilein. In the meantime he had missed on a lot of other targets. Having Todd in the class provided a boost for recruiting, even though there was always a real risk he wouldn't stick. The circumstances warranted taking a chance that he wouldn't have taken at other times.
Juwan tried to fill that SG spot with several other players; Moses Moody, Jaden Springer, Nimari Burnett. Only after they all committed elsewhere did he get stuck waiting for Christopher. And what was the lesson he should learn from that, that he should always settle for a lower rated sure thing instead of taking a chance on landing top prospects?
I think there's plenty to learn. Maybe be wary of these types of guys, especially in the late signing period. Maybe Howard already had both of them at a 50/50 at best in his mind, but if he didn't, he probably learned some about dealing with prima donna / non-committal 5* recruits in the social media age
I mean, you have to think this pandemic has an impact on all the recruiting. Maybe Todd feels, with all that is going on, it's better to go make some money right now. Maybe JC would rather stay closer to home than move across the country in the middle of a pandemic. To say it had no impact, I think, would be a mistake, but as to whether or not either play for Michigan had this all not happened, is anyone's guess. You can't not go after good players. Not like Howard lost these guys to Duke or Kentucky, he lost them to ASU, the same school JC's brother plays for, and another to overseas where he can make some good money. Both decisions make sense for those individual recruits.
Exactly!
JH should be the one dictating, not 14yo prima donnas. Recruit kids, that's the job. But JH has to know (or learn) about the true level of interest. You can't waste too much time on a kid looking to go overseas or who just loves the attention.
Both recruits may have had a sincere interest in coming to Ann Arbor. But JH's waiting forever before securing someone solid instead is a mistake. But one he will learn from.
It's important to have backup options. Hopefully we can still go out and snag a 4 star guard somewhere or go after the transfer portal.
Don’t think that’s going to happen unless transfer rules change in June. One of Zeb or Cole will have to step up to fill the void for sure.
Yep, throwback to like 3-4 months ago when people on this board were really mad at me for saying that Juwan should be putting out more offers as a safety net
What are people thinking he should learn about his recruiting approach?
I'm willing to bet that suggested approach is conversely something that they wouldn't want the football coach to learn.
How do you lose a kid to fucking ASU. Coach K would never lose a kid to fucking ASU
Beilein also wouldn’t have offered either of them.
He would have offered when they show interest. He just doesn’t wait on them for a long time. Move on to someone that’s ready to sign.
I would honestly be ok with this without some nice improvement in the next year or two with in-game coaching. The recruiting was the saving grace, and it's gone.
How many recruiting classes did Beilein have that you would say were better than this one?
zero or one? I'm not sure. But Beilein in-game vs Howard in game is zero contest. The recruiting was supposed to be zero contest in the opposite aspect. That is how it was going to even out.
In Juwan's first recruiting class with a late start?
Juwan =/= Coach K. Michigan Basketball =/= Duke Basketball. It never has, and it never will, so if your basis for this program's overall success on the recruiting trail is to compare who it gets to who Duke gets, you are going to be disappointed on a yearly basis. That's like saying "How the hell did that rookie QB not go win the Super Bowl last season? Tom Brady wouldn't have lost that Super Bowl." Well....that's because he's fucking Tom Brady.
There were very likely factors at play here that no one has any control over. What if JC decided he wanted to play closer to home due to COVID-19? You really going to fault him for that? Maybe JC really wanted to be on the same team as his brother. If he did, that's something Michigan just can't offer.
Apparently Christopher has been a lock to ASU since the fall and he's just been fucking with everyone
I know I have been mostly negative, but, sometimes you just have to remember they are kids. Shit. I still feel like a kid at times. It's just all a fun journey and process.
"It's just all a fun journey"
It's not though. Decisions have repercussions that affect other people's lives. Todd decided to commit to a program and tell people he was going there that he probably knew he was never going to attend. Christopher has been a lock to ASU since the fall and decided to lead on Michigan until the end. If Michigan hadn't been getting duped, we could've gone out and tried to get other players worthy of a Michigan scholarship and education. It may seem fun for them, but it's shitty. It's like a girl leading on a guy because she thinks it's fun
That's certainly what it looks like to me too. Almost unanimous crystal balls in Michigan's favor from recruiting experts who must have been getting information that he was coming here. The coaches believed he was coming here. The media believed it. And the absurd announcement at 11:24 to get more social media attention. I think coaches like Juwan will learn to stay away from kids like this who are demonstrating traits that won't translate well to basketball success at Michigan. That mean being part of a team, focussing on basketball, and being at least somewhat mature. There are 5 star players out there like that, but you have to sift through the pile to find the right ones to offer.
Compare their cheerleaders to ours.
More. Fucking. Money.
Yeah I'm pretty sure this is the only lesson
Matt Harms would be an intriguing add. Think he would very much benefit from Juwan's coaching and be a force on both ends of the floor for us.
I agree, but I have to ask, can he play guard? (Basketball version of the, “can he play DT?” question.)
No, but I think he would give us a massive strength at center, and (more than) make up for the loss of Todd and Castleton (even if Todd wasn't going to play center).
From "best class ever?" to "Rutgers has a deeper depth chart".
For me, it's 'don't save spots for players that won't sign'. Or if you do, you better have a damn good backup plan. If we go into this season with 2 open scholarships, 2021 class is going to have to be massive and we won't be able to afford these kinds of misses.
My opinion: 1)Put out more offers. You cant limit your offers and then crash and burn because there are no backup plans. 2) Recruit the 30-100 really hard and then get some 100-150 kids to help the 4 year roster. Find one or two top 15 players that might be interested but dont count on them. Drop them after November signing period if they dont sign. 3) Stay away from any that have immediate pro aspirations. 4) Concentrate on instate and regionally first.
That 25-60 range is really where we should be putting in most of our effort tbh. Those are the guys who are top talents, but maybe don't have that NBA ceiling and will stay on campus on at least a few years
I agree. I just think you'll get more of that 60-100 than you will the lower end. Look at 21, three of the instate guards we are pursuing are all closer to the 90-100 range.
They're likely going to rise also. Bufkin and Brooks are likely top 100 guys and Matt D thinks that Akins could be top 50. We need to get those guys especially since it's going to be such a large class
I don't think we've even offered Bufkin. That's part of my point, it's like hes focused on about 10-15 recruits and they are mostly top 20. We havent offered Jordan Hawkins either who is top 65 and from Hunter's school. That net needs to be way wider. Since he doesnt have the Beilein must visit first rule then he can afford to offer more scholarships.
Hopefully hes learned to NEVER EVER trust slefish self centered 17 and 18yos
Most 17-year-olds should be "slefish" when considering their future. Not really something you can hold against someone that young. Shit, I'm "slefish" in my 30's when considering my future.
Lesson: Stay away from kids that "play" the process. I would get to know the parents better. Kids learned somewhere. You can't teach talent ... nor class.
Not sure there's anything to learn. High risk, high reward... and this time the Wolverines got mollywhopped by that risk.
Correct. Better to have loved and lost...(maybe not the best analogy!?)
I don't think there's a whole lot to learn. Highly talented high school basketball players can be immature, egotistical, selfish attention whores who won't hesitate to jerk others around. But we already knew that. Hopefully, going forward Coach Howard will have more time to find and recruit players who are not like this. This recruiting cycle was very short for Coach Howard and it increased the chances of having to pin his hopes on a couple indecisive and immature 5 stars - they were the only top players left. He still has the pull to get the very best players and needs to have this goal.
It's also possible he will have a better sense of which players are likely to pull this kind of crap.
Kentucky and Duke both backed off Isiah Todd almost 12 months ago with one Insider from Kentucky saying the coaching staff were 100% sure he would never sign with a school.
You say there is nothing to learn but the Perennial blueblood big dogs saw this train wreck a mile away.
No, go read my post again. Howard had to try reeling in two indecisive 5 stars because he was late to the recruiting cycle and they were the only very top players left! And then there's the bag men which Howard doesn't have - unlike Duke and Kentucky. With a full recruiting cycle, I don't think Howard has to pin his hopes on two players like this.
If Howard backs off even a bit, he has taken this personal and has not learned anything. He will get his share of great basketball players.
What could he have done though? Two kids strung him along for so long he was left with no options. All the back up plans would have commited by now. Offer more kids and accept more commitments? The whole season was spent trying to figure out how to fit all these players on the roster. Accepting more commitments would have pushed other people out. Don't recruit 5 stars? They told him for weeks and months that they wanted to come. Why would Juwan say no to that?
When two players you expected to be on the roster change their mind at the last minute you're screwed.