Al Borges on Cade vs. JJ: “I don’t see any real discernible difference”
Yeah, the subject is clickbait, true but out of context. I need some negbang to keep from receiving that OMG pantsless poster of Brian everyone receives when hitting 5k MGoPoints. I am perilously close.
Al Borges and Sam Webb can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHJn7TSOOno
Most of their conversation has already been held elsewhere, but Sam and Al are still always fun. Here’s some summary:
Tidbits: Al has published a book: https://www.amazon.com/Al-Borges/e/B0BL8D56W5/ref=zg_bs_2449_bl_sccl_12/000-0000000-0000000
Al about the Nebraska defense:
(4:00ff) “What jumped out at me…was the second half….12 consecutive snaps of cover one… What is the only conclusion you can draw? They were convinced they could cover the Michigan receivers by locking onto them man to man…. They did stop the pass.”
On to the M offense:
“Good news: they ran 13 duo plays…at will….wonderful job of gaming the 3-4 defense.”
(8:00ff) “The loss of Luke Schoonmaker made a difference”
(11:00ff)“What Michigan does….in college football the whole idea now is to spread the field…Michigan’s game more is NFL Titan football…provide more gaps to defend…with Michigan you have to defend D gap and sometimes even E gap….unique to college football…”
(13:30ff) Michigan has a unique “ability to consistently get plays started…because of those multiple looks.” Credits Sherrone Moore.
(17:30ff) Regarding play calling: “Success is intoxicating…If you’re running the ball down people’s throats, the first thing that comes to your mind is a run play…if you’re gonna pass you almost have to talk yourself into it.”
They continue, but that’s some of the more interesting stuff.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:43 PM ^
I wonder what many of those fanboys who were calling for JJ to start over Cade all throughout last year and beginning of this year would be saying if Cade was still healthy...
November 15th, 2022 at 3:48 PM ^
Most would be saying,”dang if McNamara could run like JJ he might still be starting.”
November 15th, 2022 at 5:04 PM ^
Yes, I quoted Al, but context is key... I'll edit this to give the time when he says it.
I apologize for excessive complexity in the OP. I figured it was a boring week of football so simple posts weren't worth posting. I miscalulated.
Edit: My quote is from 1:03:30
Also: around 54:00 Al discusses playing Corum and Edwards at the same time. Interesting thought.
November 15th, 2022 at 6:47 PM ^
I'm upvoting you every chance I get. I have my Brian poster hanging next to my Michigan flag next to the big TV in the basement. My wife likes the poster too.
November 15th, 2022 at 8:17 PM ^
I think I would have to leave town to have conjugal relations with the wife were said poster hanging anywhere in my home...
November 15th, 2022 at 7:15 PM ^
corum and edwards should be in at the same time. edwards, imo, is possibly our best receiver. best hands at least.
November 15th, 2022 at 7:36 PM ^
I can't think of a reason for this not to happen. I hope it's drawn up and executed for ohio.
November 15th, 2022 at 8:15 PM ^
Ha ... maybe so. My only dig on JJ currently is (and it baffles me that it has not improved) the amount of deep balls he has missed this year when I always felt before this year that is what he was good at along with his mobility. Because of our run game I think we most likely would be at the same place we are now (record wise) with either to be honest. I feel comfortable with either of them at this point but I do hope the long ball improves asap.
November 16th, 2022 at 2:35 PM ^
JJ can miss 14 long balls but if he hits that one long pass thats a TD or sets up a score vs AN ohio state that will make up for the whole season of missed deep shots.
Silver lining on those throws are at least theyre overthrown instead of underthrown. Either a Michigan WR is getting it or nobody is getting it.
November 17th, 2022 at 7:08 AM ^
He’s a threat to run for sure, but not THAT big of a threat. We’re only talking about 195 yds rushing on the season. Cade had 38 last year. That’s only around 16-17 yds of rushing gained by having JJ vs Cade.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:48 PM ^
They'd say JJ is undoubtedly the better QB because of his running and play making ability.
November 15th, 2022 at 5:33 PM ^
Yea I bet when he's gonna finish the final 5 games of the year under 50 percent completion per game
November 15th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^
Straight up trolling.
November 15th, 2022 at 7:02 PM ^
Nah that's just Cade. Must've run out of pain meds today.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:49 PM ^
they'd probably be saying "I am sure am glad JJ is the starter and Cade is our backup."
November 15th, 2022 at 3:53 PM ^
JJ still opens up the offense on the ground. It is maddening that the coaches can't scheme and coach up something better than the 95th best passing offense in the country no matter who is the quarterback. If we had like the 40th best passing offense and the 3rd best rushing offense, we would probably win the national championship.
November 15th, 2022 at 4:22 PM ^
Don't confuse our raw passing yardage with our ability to pass. JJ has one of the highest completion percentages (69.0%) in the country and has thrown seven times as many TDs as INTs.
November 15th, 2022 at 5:03 PM ^
Sure, but it works the other way too. Completion percentage isn't the only way of evaluating passing ability either. I would take 40% on deeper attempts at this point.
November 15th, 2022 at 5:34 PM ^
7 times as many ? You mean 7 more... he has what 3 picks? He doesn't have 21 passing tds
November 15th, 2022 at 5:50 PM ^
It's almost like you could have looked that up to find he has 14 TDs:2 INTs.
November 15th, 2022 at 6:10 PM ^
2. He has 2 picks. 2 x 7 = 14. Which is how many passing TDs he has. In other words, 7 times as many.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:53 PM ^
I'd be saying that Cade's ceiling is JJ's floor.
November 15th, 2022 at 4:15 PM ^
Hopefully JJ wins a championship this year to reach that same level.
November 15th, 2022 at 4:16 PM ^
I really don't get why there are "sides" to this. They're both Michigan football players. It's one thing to say "I think JJ/Cade should start because of [reason]" and another to act like only one is worthy of our support.
November 15th, 2022 at 4:35 PM ^
We'd say, would we be undefeated or not with Cade? Because we're undefeated
November 15th, 2022 at 5:25 PM ^
Would anyone be questioning that? I would not. Pretty confident UM would still be 10-0.
November 15th, 2022 at 6:51 PM ^
JJ right now is Cade last year with legs and better arm strength.
I mean...that sounds like an upgrade to me overall. If you are getting the same level of game managing as you did last year, that is an absolute WIN in my mind.
November 15th, 2022 at 7:02 PM ^
Cade hit plenty of balls downfield to WR’s last year
November 15th, 2022 at 8:09 PM ^
I don't know how many long passes McNamara completed last year, and how many McCarthy has this year. But I know I can remember that McNamara didn't miss as many long passes as McCarthy has.
November 16th, 2022 at 1:41 AM ^
Your memory is shit
November 15th, 2022 at 10:26 PM ^
Cade also started half the prior year, had a full offseason getting all first team reps, didnt miss spring rehabbing or fall camp splitting reps with an incumbent starter that won the big ten title.
November 15th, 2022 at 7:59 PM ^
JJ doesn't have the luxury of Cade as a backup, so he is put in bubblewrap from a playcalling perspective and the dual-threat doesn't need to be honored. That sounds a lot like Cade with a better arm. We can judge the player when the protective layer comes off in two weeks.
November 17th, 2022 at 7:13 AM ^
I have no regrets with JJ over Cade. The kids having a little trouble getting his fastball in on the inside corner, aka the deep ball. But when we play OSU, make no mistake we’re gonna see a lot more qb runs then we’ve seen all year. Or OSU is gonna sell out to defend JJ which will open up play action. Either way those are things that Cade just didn’t have in his arsenal. Cade wasn’t winning a national championship, maybe JJ can’t either but it’s not for lack of ability.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:44 PM ^
I've seen and heard multiple people say that our receivers aren't getting any seperation this year. Even if JJ is a better thrower, it doesn't matter if no one is open. Need to scheme some guys open. Got to have a couple of tricks up our sleave for OSU.
November 17th, 2022 at 7:15 AM ^
They simply aren’t. Our routes aren’t crips and very few contested catches are happening. If we had OSU receivers JJ’s arm punting much more.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:46 PM ^
Can anyone do a side by side comparison of the numbers?
I feel like the identity of the offense hasn’t changed, it’s a run first pass second type of team. When they do pass it’s to help open up the run, or play action. More RPO this year but not nearly as much as people likely assumed.
So I kinda see what he’s saying.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:55 PM ^
With all due respect, side by side is only comparable if they had identical schedules (apples to apples). I did check that Cade has the longest pass play from scrimmage this year (61 yards). Ironic, isn't it?
November 15th, 2022 at 5:01 PM ^
That 61 yarder from Cade was a WR screen to Roman Wilson in Game 1. Literally all YAC. Take out that throw and he was 8-17 for 75 yards and 0 TD's....against Colorado State....
November 15th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^
The passing stats don't tell the whole story. The threat of JJ's feet is an important part of the ground game, too.
November 15th, 2022 at 4:22 PM ^
Someone did on Twitter last weekend, though I cannot remember who.
It basically boiled down to the passing offense being slightly below last year and the rushing offense being slightly better.
The rushing offense improvement is, in some part, due to the threat of JJs legs. Even though they still run no read zone reads, they run enough live ones to make defenses respect the threat of JJ running. Also, Corum is probably slightly better than Haskins overall, though not quite the moose he was.
Passing wise, Cade's downfield shots last year were a little squirrly (think of the Sainristil grab against Nebraska) but from just memory, he gave his guys a better shot at making catches than JJ has. While the passing game this year might not be any worse, be honest, who thought it wouldn't be massively improved? And that's the point. It's still ok, but we were all expecting it to be significantly better and since it's not, it's a disappointment.
November 15th, 2022 at 5:51 PM ^
I agree with this but I also think a lot of fans were expecting a significant improvement this year with JJ at the helm.
November 16th, 2022 at 11:41 AM ^
Last year Michigan was 9-1 with two games to play.
This year Michigan is 10-0 with two games to play.
I’m not sure how you could get any more significant improvement than that.
November 16th, 2022 at 8:05 AM ^
This is one of the few rational thoughts in this thread. Like you said, strictly from memory but I don't think I'm imagining it, I remember Cade being pretty money on deep shots last year including those deadly flea-flickers. JJ seems like he's been pretty much 0-fer this year and that seems so inexplicable because that wasn't the case for him last year either. That being said, last year Cade never keeping on read options was a limiting factor in the run game and JJ fixes that. None of this is dragging either guy it just is what it's been and, yea, it's been disappointing to keep seeing those shots go long every time. If they could pair hitting one of those occasionally with their run game they'd be even harder to stop, and not for nothing, more fun to watch.
November 15th, 2022 at 8:45 PM ^
Through 10 games:
Cade: 149/237 (62.8%) 1,883 yards. 12 TDs 2 INT. Offense scoring 34.7 PPG
JJ: 147/213 (69.0%) 1,744 yards. 14 TDs 2 INT. Offense scoring 41.4 PPG
Note: Though the stats are through 10 games, important to acknowledge that JJ only started 9 of them. In starts only, Cade averaged 188.3 YPG and JJ has averaged 190.4 YPG. Also not listed are the 195 rushing yards and 3 TDs for JJ, and the 4 rushing yards and 1 TD for Cade.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:10 PM ^
Thank you! Kinda crazy how close the passing numbers are.
November 15th, 2022 at 9:37 PM ^
A lot of that is similarities in how conservative the offenses were. Both offenses relied heavily on the short stuff and receivers getting YAC. So the numbers aren’t really going to jump up despite JJ being a bit more accurate.
JJ has the edge in TDs as well 14-12 despite one less start, in addition to what you’re getting on the ground. Overall, JJ has been an upgrade. Maybe not as significant as hoped but the flashes are there. If he connects on a couple of those deep balls, thats where you’d really see the statline difference.
November 15th, 2022 at 3:47 PM ^
The reason Al isn't an offensive coordinator anywhere. The threat of the run from JJ is the biggest and most discernable difference. Not to mention the throws Cade can't make, that we watch JJ do every week.
November 15th, 2022 at 5:36 PM ^
Jj floated passes all game against Nebraska. I saw 0 throws that cade couldn't do.
November 15th, 2022 at 6:07 PM ^
Isn't this hyperbole? All game?
November 15th, 2022 at 5:43 PM ^
the throws Cade can't make, that we watch JJ do every week
That is actually the problem - the throws that Cade couldn't make (especially deep balls to WRs) JJ can't seem to make either.
And so rather than celebrating the joy of a 10-0 start, we spend a large amount of time worrying what may happen versus better quality teams like Ohio State and other teams Michigan will likely face in the post-season.