2013 OL and Borges Offensive Play Calling

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January 11th, 2013 at 1:36 PM
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Hail-Storm
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2013 OL and Borges Offensive Play Calling

Now with Lewan coming back, Brian and others have made some predictions for what the line might look like. My question for some of the more knowledgeable posters is what type of line and play calling you would expect from Al and why some players would project to right guard vs left guard and so on. I know that with Long Michigan ran a lot of zone to the left, while under Rich Rod, our guards and center needed to get out to the second level.

With Lewan returning and Kalis a mauler, does this mean that we should expect to see runs go left with a pulling guard or tackle? Or are runs expected to go right up the gut? I'm looking for more of an explanation for what Al's offense might look like now with Devin and his lineman and what players are fighting for which positions and why. Do they need to be quick/ strong/ agile? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

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January 11th, 2013 at 1:40 PM | Paragraph (Score:5 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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Sorry this is showing up as one paragraph. It shows two in when I edit, but not in the preview or actual post. It is probably due to posting from phone.

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 11th, 2013 at 7:29 PM | Is that the break you wanted? (Score:1)
justingoblue
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It looked like it, but I'm not 100%, obviously.

Go Blue!

January 11th, 2013 at 10:34 PM | Great (Score:3 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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Thanks for the help. You are a scholar and a gentleman

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 11th, 2013 at 1:44 PM | The same play calls, but the (Score:3 Normal)
hart20
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Players will actually be able to execute next season.

Yep, that's Simba made out of a pineapple.

January 11th, 2013 at 1:50 PM | Wait...You mean to tell me (Score:5 Normal)
Iceman
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Wait...You mean to tell me that Lewan is coming back?!

January 11th, 2013 at 1:59 PM | If you really trust your (Score:4 Normal)
Magnus
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If you really trust your tackles (presumably our two tackles will be fifth year seniors), then you probably want to aim to run off the edges.  Running up the gut would seem to be a bad idea.  I would expect to see more of the I-formation power running plays, with Kalis and/or the other guard pulling up through the hole.

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January 11th, 2013 at 2:13 PM | Agree (Score:1 Normal)
Ziff72
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You are 100% right, but what have you seen to lead you believe Borges will follow it?   This year despite no evidence we could get a push up the middle we seemingly kept trying it.   Why we didn't run more short yardage over Lewan baffles me.  

With our personnel I would like to have seen us use an old school pro set with a FB behind the qb and a TB split to the side of the FB and just have some quick hitting off tackle plays behind Lewan in short yardage.   Penn St used this quite effectively over the years. 

We don't want to go completely 2007 Debord but I plays run to the left should be a staple of next years offense.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:23 PM | Players skill sets (Score:4 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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I thought a big reason we didn't run that this year was because Omameh had trouble on pulling. He was good in a spread offense of getting off blocks and to the second level, but struggled with being a lead blocker

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 11th, 2013 at 2:45 PM | That was a major reason (Score:5 Normal)
Space Coyote
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I outlined it more below, it also had to do with the fact that Michigan was limited at TE.

It also had to do with the fact that the guards struggled to reach/drive block (when Michigan started pulling tackles instead of of guards when the guards struggled) so defensive players started getting a push into the backfield.

It also had to do with the way defenses aligned to dare Michigan to run up the middle.

So there was really a culmination of issues that caused Michigan to struggle to run to the outside (outside of jet sweeps).

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

January 11th, 2013 at 2:27 PM | I was always told the idea of (Score:5 Normal)
GOLBOGM
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I was always told the idea of the best tackle being on the left side is that its the QBs blindside (assuming QB is righty) and the strongest DE is usually against him coming from the defense's right.  The QB can see to the right better if he's a righty- so he can respond to pressure better meaning you want better defense from the left side.  I've never really thought about how tackles impact what direction to run the ball- that always seems like more of a coaches philosophy to me- so I was thinking our running wouldn't change?

Was I told correctly about the left/right tackle positioning strategy?

January 11th, 2013 at 2:34 PM | Yes, that is the conventional (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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Yes, that is the conventional wisdom.  

This is why some teams' RT is basically another guard - a guy who can pass block well enough against a non-elite pass-rusher (since most teams don't have two) and who is a great drive blocker.  

January 11th, 2013 at 2:49 PM | This is a decent look at a RT (Score:5 Normal)
Space Coyote
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But they really are quite different than guard in footwork and a lot different in pass protection. Teams tend to be right handed because most people are right handed/footed and it's easier to operate in the direction you're stronger.

The LT/RT debate is something like the boundary/field corner debate. Typically your left tackle is more agile and is better in pass pro, while your RT is a better run blocker, he can reach, seal, and drive people. However, just like sometimes the boundary corner is more physical but also the better cover guy, it just so happens that a lot of the traits that make someone a good LT can help them with run blocking as well (footwork, pop, etc), so they are the best overall lineman anyway.

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

January 11th, 2013 at 2:45 PM | The thing you have to (Score:4 Normal)
Magnus
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The thing you have to consider with the QB and running the ball is that Gardner is right-handed and, presumably, better at throwing when moving to his right.  So it would behoove Michigan to develop the running game behind the RG and RT, which would make it a little easier for Gardner to run play action passes without turning his back to the defense all the time.

But yeah, the left tackle is typically the pass blocking/blind side tackle.

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January 11th, 2013 at 3:59 PM | Do you pull when you run right? (Score:3 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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A few questions. When you run right, does the left guard pull? Does your opinion on running right change at all with an athlete like Devin? I'd imagine that if we ran left and Gardner ran play action, he would also have a check down to his legs easier with only a DE or linebacker to beat to the edge? Thanks

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 11th, 2013 at 4:04 PM | Hoke, who loves the power (Score:5 Normal)
Magnus
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Hoke, who loves the power play, would pull the left guard on a Power Right.

Gardner scrambles much more decisively than Denard Robinson, so yeah, we could run a naked bootleg and if the WR or TE isn't open, then Gardner could pretty easily run it.

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January 11th, 2013 at 4:15 PM | Depends on a number of things (I'll try to answer all) (Score:5 Normal)
Space Coyote
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It depends on defensive alignment, what run fake you are doing, ect. Depending on all those things, you may have both guards pull, a guard/center pull, even a playside tackle pull, or just one of the above. For instance, it's typically more difficult to pull if you are covered away from the playside and so is the offensive lineman to the playside (this is why the bear defense works so well against the run, every lineman is covered making it difficult to pull any of them withut the defense getting into the backfield).

Now if you are faking run right and rolling Devin to the right on an outside run fake, you will most likely see the playside guard pull. You may also simply see the FB or the RB who received the fake be responsible to seal the end man on the LOS. This is because he has to get out on the edge to prevent a LB or DE from getting right upfield to the QB. If you play action left and roll right or a fake power, you could see any of the above pull (playside/backside guard or center) but it will most likely be the backside guard.

I think Devin is more effective at rolling than Denard was, mainly because he is still a threat to run, but not necessarily as much of one. Teams kept a lot of players outside on Denard to contain him, but Devin is a good enough passer from the pocket that teams need to respect that more and probably don't respect his legs as much, making him more likely and probably better at scrambling.

I still don't think Michigan will naked boot much (meaning not pull anyone) because DEs and LBs are still likely to contain on DG, especially sinse Michigan will still be playaction and roll heavy and DG has good legs. So more often than not you will see tend to see someone pull to try to take care of that DE or LB on the edge (unlike, say, when Navarre was at Michigan, where you could naked boot and heavy sell run, because teams didn't really fear his legs so the backside DE would collapse to try to stop it).

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

January 11th, 2013 at 4:21 PM | Thanks for all the info (Score:2)
Hail-Storm
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Any chance you will make a diary sometime with some of the play designs? When you say they won't naked bootleg when running left and rolling Gardner right, does this mean either Kalis at left guard or the center would pull and act as lead blocker/ pass protector?

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 11th, 2013 at 4:39 PM | I could probably make a diary on it (Score:5 Normal)
Space Coyote
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Essentially, I just don't think it's wise to naked boot Gardner on any play action fake because defenses respect his running ability enough to keep someone on the backside to contain him.

So yes, I think if you fake run left and roll DG right, you will see an interior lineman pull backside, or a FB/H-back leak backside to seal the contain man inside so that the defender isn't right in DG's face when he turns around and DG can break outside the pocket.

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

January 11th, 2013 at 2:47 PM | The tackle positioning sounds right, (Score:3 Normal)
Mr Miggle
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but I'm not so sure about the DEs. They don't necessarily stay on one particular side, Remember our line switching sides just before the snap in response to a formation change. Also the best pass rushers aren't necessarily the best run stoppers.

Eating is murder.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:53 PM | They don't necessarily stay (Score:3 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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They don't necessarily stay on one side, but they usually do.  Most teams want their best pass-rusher on the right side, at least on passing downs.  Think about it - how many times did you see Clowney go up against Schofield as opposed to Lewan?  Same thing with Gholston.  When it was a passing down, those guys were on the defense's right side.  When you saw our D-line switching sides, it was more for the run than for the pass.

You're also correct that most good pass-rushers aren't the team's best run stoppers.  A SDE will be better against the run than the WDE, which is why a lot of teams like to run left more often.

January 11th, 2013 at 3:15 PM | Inside Runs (Score:2 Normal)
Ron Utah
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Inside runs are vital to any offense; those are the runs that open up the off tackle opportunities.  Your YPC avg. will almost always be higher on the outside, but if the defense knows that's where you're going, it's going to be tough sledding.

Inside runs are not designed to be home runs; they are designed to force your opposition to defend the middle of the field, thus opening the outside of the field where big plays can happen.

Even Chip Kelly admits his goal is to be able to run up the gut--it is the shortest path to yards (straight line) and forces the defense to adjust.

Thank you, Coach Hoke, for bringing Michigan back.

January 11th, 2013 at 1:59 PM | I think I read before you (Score:4 Normal)
Big_H
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I think I read before you want your more run heavy, less agile player at right guard and your more complete, better in pass protect player at left guard. In our situation we have Kalis who is supposed to be a monster at pass protect, run blocking, so we move kalis to left guard because he is better suited there and put Bryant at right guard because the coaches have said his run blocking is ahead of his pass blocking, and that is where he has been practicing the last couple years anyway.

Shoelaces flapping in the wind!

January 11th, 2013 at 2:19 PM | Run to the right? (Score:3 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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So does this assume we are running to the right? It seems like you would want to run to the left to both run behind Lewan and Kalis (not sure which gap this is) and would also help open up play action since Gardner would roll to the right. It seems like this would combine spread tendencies with power running. How often should we expect linemen to release to the second level? I know that Brian mentioned Hoke was of the linebackers make tackles lineman cause turnovers mindset so I don't know if that means much releasing.

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 12th, 2013 at 9:20 AM | Can (Score:1)
Leonhall
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Someone post anything positive that the coaches have said about Chris Bryant? I'm not doubting him, just seems like before he got hurt in camp, he wasn't talked about at all, seemed like even Joey B was getting more mentions. Seems like it was even mentioned on here about Chris Bryant not getting a whole lot of love...just wondering because so many believe Bryant is going to be plugged in next season.

Denard Robinson......They're not going to catch him!

January 12th, 2013 at 9:57 AM | I'm not sure about the (Score:2)
Magnus
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I'm not sure about the coaches, but practice buzz suggested Bryant was the best run blocker on the team, but that he needed to work on his pass blocking.

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January 11th, 2013 at 2:06 PM | After reading the title I (Score:4 Normal)
turtleboy
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After reading the title I guess I have to say that I hope his play calling is less offensive in 2013 , and more effective than it was at times in 2012. I think he called a pretty good bowl game, and it was better executed than I expected. I think our offense in 2013 is looking up. I would expect the scheme to be more consistant next year than it was this year because we should hopefully only need one qb.

How many times have you been on the freeway and had someone fly by you at 100 mph then end up 2 cars ahead of you at the off ramp? What's the point? -Mark Harmon

January 12th, 2013 at 9:21 AM | Honestly (Score:1)
Leonhall
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I just hope that Hoke or Dave Brandon spoke long to Borges after that disastrous 2nd half against Ohio so that we NEVER see a game with that bad of playcalling again.

Denard Robinson......They're not going to catch him!

January 11th, 2013 at 2:06 PM | Who do our QBs work with in the offseason? (Score:4 Normal)
Pdeaner
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I was looking through some pictures of George Whitfield (the QB coaching guru) and saw pics of lots of current college QB's (Braxton Miller, Logan Thomas).  So some of these guys are traveling out to San Diego to train with him.  Any idea what our guys are doing in the offseason?  Curious how much imporvement DG will make between now and next season.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:17 PM | Mainly, I'm hoping Borges' (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 11th, 2013 at 2:24 PM | Runs him near Clowney? I (Score:5 Normal)
FreeKarl
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Runs him near Clowney? I don't think Smith even got a chance to take one stride forward.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:33 PM | and if Clowney had been half (Score:1 Normal)
MosherJordan
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and if Clowney had been half a step faster, it wouldn't have mattered if Ron Dayne was in the game, Clowney would've taken the handoff himself for the first ever handoff pick 6.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:38 PM | We had momentum after that (Score:-1 Trolling)
January 11th, 2013 at 3:30 PM | You have to give guys a (Score:1)
B1G_Fan
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You have to give guys a chance to make a play and you have to give guys a chance to rest.

Not one of our RB's where even close to being effective. Not fitz, vince, rawls, hayes none of them. Denard ran like a beast but he can't run every down. Who would you have run? Fitz was out, I think rawls is done and Hayes is a RS freshman and about the same size as Smith.

 That was nothing to do with play calling it was 100% execution and a missed assignment by the O line

January 11th, 2013 at 3:38 PM | I think a running play there is important. (Score:0 Trolling)
January 11th, 2013 at 3:49 PM | Missed assignment/ communication (Score:4 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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Lewan stated that this was a miscommunication and resulting missed assignment on that play. I think you can blame Borges partly because his player was unprepared ( although he is a freshman and very few other options) however the play call may have been ok otherwise (although 1 yard carries fr that formation were the norm in that game)

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 11th, 2013 at 5:33 PM | That is where the play call failed, IMO (Score:2 Normal)
oldcityblue
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I'm not sure what his numbers were for the game, but Smiths average was probably less than 1 ypc. That first down playcall was vital to keep SC off balance, so why call a play that had mostly gone for no gain the whole game? The fact that it ended up being part of a highlight reel makes it sting a bit more. If Borges really had to call a run, then give it to Denard on a jet sweep, away from Clowney.

"He stood there like the house by the side of the road, and watched that one go by"

January 12th, 2013 at 12:58 PM |  You can run the same play (Score:1)
B1G_Fan
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 You can run the same play 100 times and get 100 different results. There where a few games in 2011 where Denard would have 15 carries or so for 20 yards and then boom he breaks an 80 yard run. you have to give them a chance to break one

January 11th, 2013 at 2:29 PM | I've been pushing for a (Score:5 Normal)
WolvinLA2
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I've been pushing for a different scenario - with Kalis and Lewan on the left side, I like the idea of a more fleet-footed RG who can pull and kick out, and I think Erik Magnuson would be a good option there.  He's big enough, played guard well at the AAA game a couple years ago and is one of our more athletic linemen who should be able to pull and get out in front of the RBs well.  That would make the starting OL Lewan - Kalis - Miller - Magnuson - Schofield.  

The other reason I like this move is because I think Magnuson might be the best option to replace Lewan in a year, and this gives him a year of on-field experience under his belt, so our starting LT isn't so green in 2014.  

EDIT:  Also, the way I would address depth in this scenario would be to have Bryant (or whichever OG is best) as the back-up at both guard spots, and have Braden come in at RT if either OT goes down (Schofield moving to LT if it's Lewan).  

Also, also - if Chris Bryant comes into fall as a beast, I'll happily trash this proposal, as that would probably be best-case scenario.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:23 PM | With our OC? (Score:4 Normal)
Bodogblog
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Look I'm not a Borges hater like many on this site, but even I've got to admit that our guy calls what he wants, often regardless of the defense or even effectiveness. 

After having watched him run I-form play action with Denard Robinson and 3rd &1 Iso's with Vincent Smith, I think it's a stretch to imagine play calls will differ based on OL set-up.  If we're stronger on the left side, we'll go there when we need a yard.  Otherwise Borges will run what he wants and assume the OL has been prepared to execute.  I will say I'm excited to see what this offense looks like.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:31 PM | Borges has a little Mike (Score:1 Normal)
Blueinsconsin
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Borges has a little Mike Martz in him.  When he has the players and systems he wants, he's an incredible play caller and offensive guru.  However, he's not that willing to fix his system to his players.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:48 PM | How can you say this with a (Score:5 Normal)
reshp1
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How can you say this with a straight face? The guy had his square peg/round hole face-palm moments sure, but he also ran two years worth of offense custom tailored to Denard Robinson. We haven't really even begun to see what a Al Borges Offense looks like yet.

January 11th, 2013 at 2:58 PM | Agree with statement (Score:4 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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I think the offense will be very different. As Space Coyote has pointed out, Borges was running an offense that not only differed because of denard, but also because of the linemen and tight ends. I think next years offense will look a lot different more because of the line and was wondering what others thought that might look like

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

January 11th, 2013 at 3:12 PM | Denard Robinson ran 221 times (Score:4 Normal)
Magnus
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Denard Robinson ran 221 times in 2011 and 177 times in 2012.  Borges isn't willing to tailor his play calling to his players?  Really?

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January 11th, 2013 at 3:31 PM | Don't get me wrong, I really (Score:1)
Blueinsconsin
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Don't get me wrong, I really like Borges, but I am more excited  to see (and have more faith in) what he will do with our incoming players than what he tried to do with Denard and co.  His play calling became stagnant after awhile.

January 11th, 2013 at 3:50 PM | When?  Against Iowa?  Against (Score:3 Normal)
Magnus
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When?  Against Iowa?  Against South Carolina?  Every team has its own set of plays.  If you watch any team long enough, things will seem redundant.

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January 11th, 2013 at 2:23 PM | I don't care how it gets done (Score:2)
Sten Carlson
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I don't care how it gets done nor by whom, just control the LOS and run the freakin' ball to set up the play action. This year was so painful to watch at times as the OL couldn't move anyone off the ball with any consistency.

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Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!
 

January 11th, 2013 at 2:42 PM | From watching film last year (Score:5 Informative)
Space Coyote
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A lot of teams lined up their LBs and DEs in positions to make it difficult to run to the outside. Most defenses almost dared Michigan to run up the middle (this was probably due to Michigan's weak interior line, but also because opposing coaches really feared Denard in space, and getting him to the edge was more scary then him running up the middle).

And actually, even last year, Michigan's interior either struggled to properly downblock or pull. Eventually, it was often the TEs downblocking and the tackles pulling because the interior guys struggled in space. The issue there is Michigan essentially had three TEs on roster, two that couldn't threaten catch - one of which was inexperienced and struggled to block as well), and another that struggled to block. If a team struggles to seal the inside guys inside and struggles to block in space, it's difficult to get to the edge with a base blocking scheme rather than a zone blocking one.

So that's why you saw Michigan not run the ball off-tackle or outside a ton this year, because defenses often got a lot of penetration and didn't really even give runners a chance to get to the outside or cut it up behind the play. Hopefully next year will improve.

4/23/13 - Denard Robinson's NFL Future, Part II

January 11th, 2013 at 3:17 PM | I'm pretty sure... (Score:1)
Mr. Yost
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I'm pretty sure Denard had something to do with opposing teams lining DEs and LBs up outside to prevent us from going outside.

You never wanted to give up the edge, keep everything inside.

With that said, think about how many 7-9 yard runs Denard had by faking to the back and taking the ball straight up the middle.

“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”

January 11th, 2013 at 2:59 PM | Zone blocking (Score:1)
ThinBLUEline
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will help us with manball and will open up the play action and screens/veers. The oline has the size to play man blocking and pulling your guards, but it seems like zone will open up our run game which is where we were hurt bad this year.

January 11th, 2013 at 3:16 PM | Different personnel? (Score:4 Normal)
Hail-Storm
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I thought zone blocking required a different skill set and type of offensive lineman than man ball type blocking. I know that Michigan made the switch in 2004 or 05 I think. I thought it also requires a back with really good vision, patience, and cutting ability, where as man ball calls for a play for a specific gap.

"Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest." -Mark Twain


 

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