Reply from the Director of Bands
The following is an email and response between me and the Director of Bands at U of M that I scrounged up this morning:
On Aug 3, 2009
Dear Professors Haithcock and Boerma,
As a fellow musician and student at the University of Michigan, let me first
congratulate you on putting a product out in the U of M marching band year-in and year-out that is entertaining, classy, and above all else, skilled. However, something must be done about a glaring problem at the University of Michigan football games : the student section cannot hear much sound from the marching band as a whole, except for the mobile percussion. As a result, students are unable to appreciate the excellent and fun music that is being performed; they are also hindered from cheering as loudly and intimidating opposing teams on the football field.
Increased fan/band participation should be something that is striven towards as part of an integral "game-day experience", giving a two-fold effect: fans (and especially students) are much more able to appreciate the workmanship of the musicians, and by creating a louder, more intimidating atmosphere for opposing teams, the student athletes will benefit as well.
Please try anything possible to maximize our game-day experience.
Go Blue!!
Josh
Joshua,
Thanks for your note and the polished expression of your concerns. I will leave the details to Prof. Boerma going forward. In short, the situation you describe is due to the Athletic Department's decision regarding where to seat the band and the fact that each band student seat within the student section makes other seats available at a more expensive price. This is a recent move after more than a decade of the MMB sitting across the field from the student section.
You are not alone in your concern but understand that the band has limited options as electronic support of the sound is against NCAA rules. In that large space, acoustics can only do so much.
MH
This is basically what everyone has hinted at, but I just thought I'd like to give some solid proof as to where things stand, right from the horse's mouth.
On Aug 3, 2009
Dear Professors Haithcock and Boerma,
As a fellow musician and student at the University of Michigan, let me first
congratulate you on putting a product out in the U of M marching band year-in and year-out that is entertaining, classy, and above all else, skilled. However, something must be done about a glaring problem at the University of Michigan football games : the student section cannot hear much sound from the marching band as a whole, except for the mobile percussion. As a result, students are unable to appreciate the excellent and fun music that is being performed; they are also hindered from cheering as loudly and intimidating opposing teams on the football field.
Increased fan/band participation should be something that is striven towards as part of an integral "game-day experience", giving a two-fold effect: fans (and especially students) are much more able to appreciate the workmanship of the musicians, and by creating a louder, more intimidating atmosphere for opposing teams, the student athletes will benefit as well.
Please try anything possible to maximize our game-day experience.
Go Blue!!
Josh
Joshua,
Thanks for your note and the polished expression of your concerns. I will leave the details to Prof. Boerma going forward. In short, the situation you describe is due to the Athletic Department's decision regarding where to seat the band and the fact that each band student seat within the student section makes other seats available at a more expensive price. This is a recent move after more than a decade of the MMB sitting across the field from the student section.
You are not alone in your concern but understand that the band has limited options as electronic support of the sound is against NCAA rules. In that large space, acoustics can only do so much.
MH
This is basically what everyone has hinted at, but I just thought I'd like to give some solid proof as to where things stand, right from the horse's mouth.
Damn you give good email!
I wonder if Haithcock's responses will express more irritation as the day wears on.
We need to begin a mass email spamming campaign of both the AD office and the head of bands.
Hence the reason i bought my club seats in 2010 on the goal line east side boxes, so I could hear the band and have great site lines in the front row....as soon as they implemented seat licenses, i figured this would be permanent.
The only option i can see is putting the band up high in the student section corner so that the students can hear them and be in unison for The Victors. But that presents major logistics issues getting down to the field at half time and post game. Looks like they will have to do a lot of turning around if they want the students to really hear them, but that eliminates most of the other 75,000 fans from hearing them...
Thanks for sharing. That was a pretty candid and telling response.
Seems like all parties involved are in agreement that things ought to be better. I just hope that some type resolution can be made that will be of benefit to all.
the band should be located at field level in one of the endzones. Witht the open bowl design it's the only place they could be to have the sound carry through out the entire stadium. The best scenario would be split the band to both endzones and play at the same time.
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:51 PM ^
There is absolutely no way that you can split a band and have it play simultaneously. Conducting issues aside, the bands would have to be playing while hearing music from the other side that's off-beat since it takes time for the sound to travel from one end to the other. In fact, everyone but the people exactly in the middle would be hearing the music from one side off-beat from the music on the other side.
This doesn't explain why you can't hear the band on the field anymore.
Put the band on the field. I've always wanted to see another Cal/Stanford, even if it doesn't involve laterals.
2008 football rules
I could find no mention of this supposed ban on "electronic support of the sound." Could he be thinking of another sport?
Those rules are pretty much exclusive to the game itself, plus a few closely related things like rules for instant replay and lighting.
I have to assume there are many other rules for how a sports program is run. For example, that guide also doesn't say anything about when games can be played, or how the schedule has to be created, or a hundred other issues that the NCAA may or may not have a say in.
Of course there are other rules (take, for example, those governing recruiting and championship formats). They generally don't cover what happens during the game, however. It's possible that it's written somewhere else, but it seems at this point the onus should be on those claiming it exists to produce evidence of it. Note that:
- it doesn't make much sense to allow prerecorded music but prohibit amplification of the band
- the football rule book does make mention of the bands (see, for instance, rule 9-2-1-b-6 via the link in my previous post)
- the rules governing sound are different by sport and laid out in the "playing rules books" of the various sports (see question "Are artificial noisemakers allowed?" on page 2 of this FAQ and note the explanation for football)
August 3rd, 2009 at 10:57 PM ^
If you move the band to the top of the stadium, many band members would quit. They don't join marching band to not see football games.
As a 15 year season ticket holder in section 40, row A --I would have to say--please make the band stay on the field, at turf level, and remove their bleachers!
We have had to endure, for several years, JV tuba players, that couldn't play in the regular 225 member band, stand on top of the bleachers with strict orders from the director not to play!! (They are only allowed to play the Victors!) Needless to say, these people obstruct our view (while we are standing -of course!-Go Blue!) They insist on standing on the top row of the bleachers--I don't pay my seat license fee to be blocked out by a tubby tuba player!
I did enjoy 2009 as they faced us from the student section--I still feel it is better to have them at turf level--play loud, play proud! U of M used to have the best marching band in the Big Ten--what happened???
season was like. The band was good then? Can you tell us how the team did? Eh, I'm not sure if I want you to spoil it tho! Yes. No. YES! WAIT...NO...YES!! TELL US!
If you really want a treat, check out the band in 2023. Simply out of this world.
although im not really sure what he's saying about the band and the point he's trying to make, he could be talking about the spring game, where im pretty sure the band did play
August 4th, 2009 at 10:22 AM ^
Why not have members of the band set out in groups up the isles on either side and the middle of the student section to increase the volume of the band and participation of the students? The band doens't have to be stationary. Platoons already travel around the stadium in the 3rd quarter. Wouldn't that help?
-If you sit where the band used to be, quit your whining. They're gone, and the tuba players didn't sit in the stands anyway.
-If you sit where the band currently is, you're a student. Your license fee is a grand total of $0.00, and nobody sits where they're supposed to over there anyway.
-The Michigan tuba players tend towards pretty fit, actually. Considering your claim that they've been blocking your view for 15 years, your observation skills are astounding. Perhaps you mistook the MMB for the USC Band somehow?
If you just don't want to deal with students or marching bands, I might suggest going to Lions games instead.
Or you just throw marshmallows into the Tubas like a normal student.
An element that makes Michigan Stadium so special, something in addition to the size of the structure, is how close the fans are to the field, which translates into very little room on the sidelines for players, coaches, stadium sideline operations officials, TV cameras (with their large carts) other media, and other credentialed game workers.
A good example of severe congestion on the sidelines is when the visiting band attends the game. They sit in the bleachers located near the southeast corner of the field. As a member of the media, I know firsthand of the problems of maneuvering through that area in an attempt to stay ahead of the play on the field. Another example is how packed the sidelines are immediately after the MMB pregame and halftime performances. There is only so much real estate that encircles the playing field and not all of it is usable by the media and others.
I have been to many Michigan games over the years -- both as a fan in the stands and as a field photographer and I understand the element of bringing more enthusiasm into the gameday experience. Placing the MMB on the field is not one of those.
I'll post mine too:
Wassup Boerma,
Your shit weak. Make da band louder.
BndP
PS FUCK YOU and your already debunked "NCAA rules" excuse. LET US HEAR THE MOTHER FUCKING MMB!!!!!1
August 4th, 2009 at 12:23 PM ^
The AD has more control over what you guys want done than the directors do. And they only care about the costs. Like someone already said, it is cheaper to put the band in the student section than across the field.
August 5th, 2009 at 10:39 AM ^
Until I see a reference to the NCAA bylaw in question that bans electronic acoustical support, I am kinda skeptical that such a rule exists because I cannot think of any reasonable rationale for such a rule. That said, it seems a pretty weird thing to just make up or make a mistake about..
I suggest the OP, who already has a conversation about this issue going with Haithcock, should ask him which rule it is that he's referencing.
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