WTKA Roundtable 8/5/2021: Old Jed's a Millionaire Comment Count

Seth August 5th, 2021 at 11:10 AM

Things discussed:

  • Tarris Reed: Expect him to commit tonight. Solid big who will be around for a few years. Not a one-and-done.
  • Emoni Bates: Somehow managed to finish “high school” 2 years early, using colleges as leverage for a pro deal.
  • But Jett Howard might be a two-and-done.
  • NIL: Michigan is slow off the block. Endorsements are pennies, money is coming from boosters.
  • Sam: Amateurism was always a scam. It wasn’t about character; it was about classism. Coaches & administrators started getting paid like pros and it blew the whole model up.
  • Make an NIL fair. What do you think it should be—don’t use NCAA’s standard because they don’t have one.
  • You don’t become the Pac12 commissioner by being a competent individual. These are rich guys who didn’t have the competence to be in charge of something actually important.
  • Expansion: Sam: SEC is smart, setting themselves up for when they have to share TV money with the players.
  • Big Ten plan: Step one is see if you can make your own mega-conference with ACC and Pac schools. Then look at adding the Pac. Kansas? Take their basketball program.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Segment two is available here. You can also watch the video here:

THE USUAL LINKS

You always take a call from a desperate man.

Comments

funkifyfl

August 5th, 2021 at 11:37 AM ^

Oh man, I got excited there for a sec because I had never seen Miz before and I thought it was a trimmed up Brian.

 

Hope Brian gets back ASAP, but Seth and the Roundtable have still been really good all summer.

Wallaby Court

August 5th, 2021 at 12:07 PM ^

I admittedly haven't listened yet, but even the summary looks like confirmation of my fears about Michigan and NIL. I had hoped that Michigan was getting something big lined up and ready to go . Instead, it sounds like Michigan's high-minded arrogance has gotten in the way, once again. A total refusal to engage in any NIL benefits discussions would be the worst case scenario. Athletes would just have to find and negotiate NIL deals themselves.

Fortunately, it sounds like Michigan has provided some help facilitating or coordinating third-party endorsement deals. But that institutional arrogance has stopped Michigan from taking an active role in lining up and offering those deals itself. My lone hope is that Michigan has started taking steps in that direction, but has started slow because it does not have preexisting bag-based infrastructure that easily converts into NIL deals.

jbrandimore

August 5th, 2021 at 12:10 PM ^

I think you are looking at this incorrectly.

Of course schools like Alabama and OSU have been funneling money to players for decades, so they have all the kinks worked out. They know where the funding comes from and where it is going already. 

All they have to do is make it more above board.

Michigan and other schools have to set this all up from scratch. It is going to take some time.

bronxblue

August 5th, 2021 at 1:07 PM ^

They sort of point this out in the podcast but it sounds like schools like UM are just taking a longer eye at maximizing the options with NIL.  Like, Michigan was apparently the first to get players' names on the back of officially-licensed jerseys and put them in the MDen.  They're also working on some larger-scale deals with companies to help really push some players and products out to larger markets.  I think other schools are good enough at that but I UM is REALLY good at making money from their athletics.  I don't think they're dropping the ball as much as figuring out something that is sustainable and on-brand.

By comparison, an MMA gym in Florida is offering about $6k/yr to every Miami (YTM) player to sponsor his gym on their social media feeds.  That works but also feels pretty ad-hoc and not sustainable long-term, and also exposes the players and schools to potential bad press if the organization you align with has some major controversy and you're bound to keep wearing/supporting them publicly.  Obviously that could happen with any sponsor but a lot of these smaller organizations and sponsors aren't as well-vetted.

Michigan has been a step slow, it sounds like, in getting major boosters involved; that's likely due in some part to the staid-ish outlook the school has as it relates to athletics.  Michigan isn't like Alabama, OSU, Clemson, etc. when it comes to athletic department's influence on the university, and I do think that's a systemic problem.  But I also think a lot of schools are sort of blowing their wad early on with these NIL options, trying to grab as much low-hanging money they can as quickly as possible, and I think that approach isn't going to be more fruitful in the long term than what schools like UM, ND, etc. are doing.

Don

August 5th, 2021 at 1:40 PM ^

Michigan has been a step slow, it sounds like, in getting major boosters involved

I assume that the typical major donation to Michigan's athletic department—like the Harris family's purchase of the right to suture their name to the head coaching position—is tax deductible as a charitable contribution.

If I'm right on that, does tax deductibility extend to funds donated with the express purpose of compensating players?

If not, will that reduce the impact of the alleged Michigan money cannon that's armed with numerous UM alumni millionaires and bigwigs who are presumably very canny with their financial investments?

bronxblue

August 5th, 2021 at 1:55 PM ^

I don't know the tax implications for personnel sponsorships vs. positions; my assumption is that we'll see a number of shell corporations and the like set up to make sure payments are as advantageous for everyone involved as possible.  That's part of the reason I think UM is being a step slow here - schools like Tennessee and Alabama have always had a pretty clear funneling system between boosters and players (and likely skirting a bunch of tax implications), but now that it's above-board you probably have to do more work to make sure it's "safer" for the boosters and the players alike, and that takes time.  Like, if I'm the Harris or Ross families I'm going to want to make this as easy as possible for myself, and handing guys McDonalds bags full of cash isn't going to cut it at scale.  

I guess my general sense is that UM has an endowment 13X times larger than Alabama's (12.48B vs. 850M); they are VERY good at making money work for them, and I think Michigan (and schools like it) are looking at NIL like kingpins intending to cement their positions and create lasting instruments while schools like Alabama, LSU, UT, etc. are more street-level dealers who are chasing quick scores.  One has more shorter-term upside but the other is likely to be more profitable down the line.

MarcusBrooks

August 5th, 2021 at 1:30 PM ^

there really is ZERO excuse for the so called "leaders and best" to be behind elite programs on the NIL and helping players get deals. 

this wasn't a surprise, it has been trending this way for a long time and the fact that M didn't have a program on the cutting edge ready to go speaks to the arrogant people running the place. 

they really should change the words in the fight song to USED TO BE THE BEST instead of Leaders and Best 

Rabbit21

August 5th, 2021 at 4:02 PM ^

I believe the exact phrase is "Quit drinking and go to bed."  

I think Bronxblue has the most reasonable take.  This is an athletic department that is good at making money and they will figure out good, sustainable ways to do so that will alleviate concerns around vetting.  Can we please just wait to see what happens before panicking and whipping ourselves in hairshirts?  Seems like it might be a refreshing change.

ak47

August 5th, 2021 at 4:14 PM ^

The NIL conversation is just more smoke blowing from michigan insiders who pretend michigan is clean. The reason Bryce Young has so much money and no Michigan players don't isn't because Michigan was clean while Bama was dirty. Young's biggest sponsorship deal is with cash app. The reason he is getting a six figure deal from cash app isn't because Bama had bag men and Michigan didn't, its because Michigan doesn't win enough for any of our players to be nationally relevant in a way that makes a company like cash app want to sponsor them.

ak47

August 5th, 2021 at 4:19 PM ^

The best thing that could happen for the big ten is for the SEC to grab FSU and Clemson and break the ACC contract. At that point Michigan could go and grab UNC/ND/USC/UCLA/Oregon/Washington whatever combination. If the ACC manages to fend of the raiding the pac 12 top tier is fine, the USC/UCLA/Washington/Oregon foursome would provide about s much value as you can get.

Blue Ninja

August 5th, 2021 at 6:42 PM ^

Won't happen. If a school isn't a member of the AAU its a non-starter for the B1G. I don't agree with the position as AAU alignment doesn't have to correspond with athletics with the school presidents, boards and AD's make these decisions. Meeting that criteria this is who you are looking at for possible membership.

Duke, Georgia Tech, Stanford, Arizona, Cal, UCLA, USC, Colorado, Kansas, UNC, Oregon, Pitt, Toronto, Utah and Washington.

This is expansion is football related so adding schools for any other reason has no point. The only schools that really move the needle for football on this list are UNC, Georgia Tech, USC, Oregon, Washington and Utah with Georgia Tech and Utah being very iffy. I don't think adding ACC schools will be feasible unless the new TV deal coming up is substantial because the ACC will own any TV rights for any current school until 2036. 

All that said I think the direction the B1G is going to have to go is west. Get USC and Oregon to join and I think they're in the ballpark of Texas and OK. If the B1G sits back and does nothing they risk the ACC getting in front. At this point I think its a foot race to be at least one of the top 2 football conferences or you'll be taking the risk of getting picked apart or left out of whatever is coming down the road in football. The SEC will probably move to 20-24 teams before the end of the decade, will the B1G keep up or will the ACC get the head jump?

If the B1G can get USC and either Oregon or Washington to jump on board it'll make it easier later on to add a few more PAC schools. Kansas is a good option too, but not if they can't get some top football schools first as they are only an addition for basketball.

L'Carpetron Do…

August 6th, 2021 at 12:14 PM ^

I think Sam's point is interesting: the risk is that the SEC will eventually become so powerful that they dictate what goes on in the rest of college football, and college sports in general. I hate the idea of adding more teams to the B1G, but if that's what needs to challenge SEC hegemony then so be it. But the PAC-12, Big XII and ACC need to make moves soon before their teams get poached and they go under. 

I think what often gets lost in all this talk is that a conference can only be so big.  And soon it becomes top heavy or bloated and then soon unsustainable. The entire landscape of college football is about to be a total mess and it's all the SEC's fault. Someone needs to take a shot at the SEC before it reaches disaster levels. 

I would like to see either 1) the ACC and Big XII make a play for SEC teams (Vandy/UK/Tenn for the  ACC, Ark/Mizzou/Tex A&M for the Big XII and/or 2) The PAC-12, B1G, Big XII, ACC, non-Power 5 conferences (+ big independents ND and BYU) band together to come up with a plan for combating all this SEC treachery. (And I'll stand by argument that the B1G should go for Kentucky).  Fighting over individual schools will only weaken them in the long run.  I don't know what a  solution would look like but to me it seems like there's strength in numbers and that's the only thing that will work in keeping college football somewhat normal.

Really, this is all so fucked because in a few years Texas will be routinely getting its ass kicked and then they'll start whining about something and will want to leave. Didn't think I could hate the SEC any more than I already do, but here we are. 

Sultans17

August 6th, 2021 at 12:27 PM ^

Feels like Seth and Sam have sources in the program who are saying "we get it, we just don't want to end up on double secret probation for some misinterpretation of NIL in the 1st month." 

They've just thrown out the 1st pitch in the 1st inning of NIL. Plenty of time to make smart, strategic and hopefully very impactful moves. Harbaugh wants great recruits. Warde wants great recruits. I'm willing to be patient.

For a week, maybe two. Then the pitchforks come out.