Man your lil bro looks *pissed* [David Nasternak]

2021 Recruiting: Rayshaun Benny Comment Count

Seth August 16th, 2021 at 9:31 AM

Previously: Last year’s profiles. P Tommy Doman Jr. S Rod Moore. CB Ja’Den McBurrows. LB Jaydon Hood. LB Junior Colson. LB Tyler McLaurin. DE Kechaun Bennett. DE TJ Guy. DE/DT Dominick Giudice. DT George Rooks.

 
Oak Park, MI – 6’5", 275
 

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[David Nasternak]

24/7:
           4.11*
4*, 91, #213 overall
#30 DL, #7 MI
Rivals:
           4.50*
4*, 5.9, #97 overall
#9 DT, #5 MI
ESPN:
           4.03*
4*, 80, #30 MW, NR overall
#19 DT, #8 MI
Composite:
           4.21*
4*, .9211, #198 overall
#29 DL, #6 MI
Other Suitors MSU (NSD decommit), PSU, Iowa, OSU (as OL)
YMRMFSPA Alan Branch but Morelli marked safe.
Previously On MGoBlog Hello post by me.
Notes Twitter.

Film:

Career highlights:

When Michigan was desperate for play-immediately DTs in 2020, people couldn’t help but notice there was a five-star—or near enough to it—nose tackle at Oak Park named Justin Rogers committed to Kentucky. I would poke Sam Webb sometimes about the Rogers thing; the response was always “Don’t ask.”

So I wasn’t asking when Oak Park produced another DT in 2021. It was Sam who told me, “You can go watch film on this guy now.” Not that there was much of it. Most of the highlights were Benny pancaking guys at offensive tackle with a smattering of DE but only on important downs. Then he was out for most of 2020 after a car accident. Without him (until the last quarter of the last game), Oak Park lost every game. Then due to the COVID year the MHSAA declared everybody made the playoffs, Benny returned, and Oak Park rattled off four straight, dying one victory short of being the only state champs to go winless in the regular season.

When Ohio State was trying to recruit Benny on the OL (the position he was listed until the final rankings), Sam was the one saying Michigan and Iowa have a shot because they want him on defense. When Benny suddenly committed to the Spartans after the Ricky White fiasco, it was Webb who told us it was because MSU was talking about NIL opportunities. When he didn’t sign with them in December only Sam wasn’t surprised. And when Benny flipped Blue on Signing Day, Webb didn’t take a bow. He should now.

So should Shaun Nua, since this flip (and Rooks) went went right after Nua was retained. Also because he picked up a monster of a recruit here who’s absolutely, definitely ticketed for a tackle spot unless he’s moved even further inside. The question though is which side of the ball.

[After THE JUMP: Stop calling him an offensive lineman (unless he is).]

Why isn’t he an offensive lineman? This is the first thing anyone who watches the highlights (which are mostly at OL) will ask, and the recruiting people do the same thing. I don’t just mean the paid services; I mean Ohio State was recruiting him the hardest as late as April 2020, prompting me to make this meme that referred to Tywone Malone mostly but also Benny:

Penn State—which was rolling in Michigan before they lost Tim Banks to Tennessee—was also after Benny as an OL. Both sites had Benny ranked as an OT until very late in the process.

I don’t think they’re all just going off the highlight reel with more pancakes than that stretch of Woodward with OPH and an IHOP. Benny is an excellent OT prospect, with his weight distributed low, long reach, incredible feet, the size to stay outside, and by (Sam’s) account a head on his shoulders which made this a very different recruitment from Rogers. His technique on offensive line is also noticeably better.

It is clear the potential on OL was driving Benny’s high rankings.

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24/7 slowly brought his rating up over the course of his recruitment: 88 initially, 89 during his junior season, 91 (four-star) after the February pop. They clicked him back *up* again a tidge after his senior film—when that happens it’s a conscious uptick because there are a lot of new guys moving up. It was also a tidge—I think both sites were ready to move him up if he wanted to play OL.

Usually I don’t bother with the “Coach watches highlights” Youtubes, but if we’re going to watch huge dude wrecks my neighbors’ kids snuff film we might as well watch it with a coach making these faces and stopping the film to say “Coach Tucker you stole one here!”

Upshots from his summary (paraphrasing): Plays with great leverage. Great feet: wouldn’t be surprised if he played basketball. Offensively good hands. Defensively [Benny] does a great job coming off the line with low hips, and rolling those hips to generate power. Aggressiveness is good but the way [he] finishes a play is second to none. Cons: have to find a way to generate speed, get some explosion and burst when running down people in short spaces. Then he made a pitch for Benny to become an offensive tackle.

There’s a major reason for this. Benny played both ways for Oak Park, but was mostly a DE until he started moving into 3-tech more as a junior. He lost all but the last 4.5 games of his senior year to injury.

Allen Trieu’s scouting summary still pegs Benny at one of the DE/DT spots of the 3-4:

Has filled in to 275 pounds with solid length and enough room to be able to add more pounds. As a sophomore, he was standing up and playing on the edge. He will likely be more of a strong-side end or a full-time three-tech defensive tackle in college.

That means tackle, not nose for us. They’re so bought into the idea of an offensive tackle that Trieu also left up a summary on offense, and gave a comp to Colts’ OT Le’Raven Clark:

Build wise, he looks like an inside-outside swing guy on the hoof. Has played both sides of the ball in high school and plays with tenacity and has good functional strength already. Runs his feet on contact and plays with good balance. Has good feet and athleticism in pass protection but has to get stronger in his punch and improve hand technique. Can play guard or right tackle in college. Natural athleticism and intangibles are that of a multi-year Power 5 starter and will have an opportunity to play on Sunday.

The defensive comp is Quinton Jefferson—there’s no way you remember Michigan playing Jefferson. If you remember anything from the 2015 Maryland game it’s the Willie Henry photo.

Rivals was doing the same thing. Midwest analyst Josh Helmholdt did it while comping Benny to a Michigan State DT you know well:

We rate Benny as an offensive line prospect because that is the side of the football where we see his greatest potential, but many of the things that make him a great offensive lineman also translate to defensive line. Michigan State is talking with Benny about manning both their 5-technique defensive end role and 3-technique defensive tackle role at times. He can project to both positions because of his unique blend of size and athleticism. In fact, it is that well-roundedness of his game that makes Benny such a highly-sought prospect. He does so many things well and has so few weaknesses that he provides unique versatility and should be able to impact early in his career. For a defensive line comparison, Michigan State fans should see many similarities to Raequan Williams.

I see it but man, Williams was one of my favorite all-time scouts because he translated his feet with technique. He is still my go-to when I see a long DT who’s just awesome at zone because you can never get enough control of him to combo.

Touch the Banner gave a grade of 81 and joined the OL chorus.

Like James Hudson in the 2017 class, I like Benny best as an offensive lineman. He’s nasty and aggressive and finishes plays. He has a good punch, drives his feet after contact, and punishes defenders. He could wear some people out by the third or fourth quarter.

The most helpful bit here is from Oak Park head coach Greg Carter, who explained Benny’s usage to 24/7’s top guy Steve Wiltfong.

Benny has been one of the best two-way linemen in the Midwest over the last couple years. He’s taken most of his snaps at offensive tackle where he's been a people mover with terrific feet and length. “Our philosophy has been we need to protect the quarterback, protect against turnovers,” Carter said. With that, they still find ways to get Benny in on defense on crucial downs. That's what he wants to play in college.

That tracks with what I saw watching Oak Park’s playoff games. Frustratingly, Benny wasn’t on the defense over half the time the defense was.

Freak athlete for a DL: 24/7’s old lead scout Barton Simmons went on our local CBS affiliate when Benny committed to Michigan State, and was asked “Just how good is Rayshaun Benny?

He’s one of the best defensive linemen in the country. Really one of the best just jumbo athletes in the country, because this is a guy who could play offensive line at the next level—in fact we ranked him as an offensive tackle through some of this process. … I think that that versatility, that ability to play both sides, is pretty representative of the talent that he brings to the table. Not many guys that kind of upside to impact a game on both sides.

Simmons also talked about how Benny would instantly make the Freaks List.

This is a guy because of his frame, because of his athletic skills, he’s just a rare type of kid—there are just so many big athletes who can move like that out there. This is a guy who can move, who plays hard. He’s one of the best players in the country.

Trieu, reluctantly:

He gets off the ball with good quickness and is able to maintain good pad level. Has gotten stronger in the lower body and that shows up in his bull-rush. As he concentrates more on defensive line solely, he will develop with his hands and technique there more. But he is a high major prospect and could have been that on either side of the ball. Figures to be an early contributor in his career and a potential draft pick.

Trieu, resignedly when Benny committed to MSU:

At his size, Benny gets off the ball very well and is a coordinated athlete who shows balance and agility. He has gotten stronger in his lower body and now shows power to go along with finesse. That has been evident still on offense, where he is driving fellow high-major recruits off the ball in his senior year. … I imagine he will end up playing at around 300 pounds in time. I also think there are some options with him as he can play a five-tech or three-tech.

Trieu, after the flip, still not quite over it:

Build wise and skill set wise, I think he shares some similarities with Chris Hinton if Wolverine fans want an idea of how he can be used.

He is an active defender who will chase down plays. He can penetrate with his first step and was also an outstanding offensive lineman in high school to the point that we thought he was a four-star on either side of the football.

I love Trieu, so that’s why I’m making him an example of this, because there was a fair bit of “If it wasn’t for COVID he would wake up and go be an OT at Ohio State or LSU” coming from the industry, especially when Benny committed to Michigan State. Rivals’ Josh Helmholdt is another guy I respect who was still doing it after the flip:

“The defensive tackle position is very difficult to recruit as a Midwest school, because there just isn’t a lot of elite talent at the spot in this area. That’s why Rayshaun got so much attention, especially later in the process. His ceiling is probably higher on the defensive line as a four-star caliber player, and the value of a defensive tackle is a lot higher than that of an offensive guard.

"It’s not surprising schools wanted him as a defensive tackle, though I think he would’ve played offensive guard if he would’ve gone down south. Rayshaun has the size, strength, quickness and athleticism that you don’t find in a defensive tackle in this region very often.”

Aaron Donald and Cameron Heyward are from Pittsburgh. Chris Jones was born in Columbus and grew up in Indiana. That’s the top three DTs in the League today according to PFF. There’s only one guy in the top ten from the Southeast. Also, the other hot DT in Michigan was a 5-star who went to Bama. Maybe y’all’s problem is y’all.

One guy who works for Helmholdt’s Michigan affiliate thinks Michigan’s Michigan DT is just as good as Bama’s Michigan DT. EJ Holland:

I love Benny as a player. As you recall, I once said Benny was the best prospect in the state of Michigan this cycle. Of course, that was before Donovan Edwards went bananas this season. Still, I would rank Benny right up there with Alabama signee Damon Payne and definitely ahead of guys like Rocco Spindler and Garrett Dellinger. Benny was terrific in-game as a junior. I love his length, strength and athleticism in the trenches. He also still has a high ceiling. His best days are ahead of him. Remember, Benny was originally an offensive line recruit and played both ways throughout high school.

Closer to home, TTB thinks it will take at least a year to train Benny to use his offensive skills on the dark side. He also places him the most likely of the DL recruits (Giudice, Rooks, Iwunnah) to contribute this year.

Benny's combination of size and athleticism seem to make him the most likely to play, but his strength and conditioning will probably place him in a backup role this season.

Steven Ostenoski of Maize n Brew put together the film that’s mostly reciting things I would rather read but did manage to squeeze in a little bit of his own take:

“His lower body looks ready … And he looked really light on his feet. Watching him play it’s like ‘Man this guy is 275? He changes direction extremely well.”

Steve O comped Benny to Chris Hinton, but noted Hinton was ranked for his advanced technique while Benny is just raw athleticism.

Mental makeup part of his upside: People who know Benny describe him as a Teddy Bear off the field and a mad grizzly on it. Head coach:

“I think he’s just tenacious,” Carter said. “He plays with an edge. He’s one of the nicest kids but after school he has that switch on practice and game days. He’s a tough guy and he wants everyone to know it.”

That was echoed by Oak Park’s OL coach who had Rogers and Benny at the same time:

“I think he could be the best out of all of them,” McMichael said of Benny. “It’s because of his work ethic. Off the field he’s mild mannered. On the field he’s a monster. He just clicks on when he’s on the field. He wants to bury you.” …

“Rayshaun is a different kid,” McMichael said. “His academics speak for themselves.  He stays on top of them. He’s all about going to make a better life for his mother and his brother.  That’s his focus.  He’s quite a kid.”

Rivals’ Austin Fox saw Oak Park take on my alma mater of Groves, and noted Benny, injured at that point, wasn’t where the injured guys usually stand.

He was spotted talking strategy with one of the assistant coaches at one point, and was later the first guy over to an injured teammate, asking him what was wrong and offering him water.

Trieu, admittedly:

Where he will have to improve is the technique of playing defensive line. He only started playing with his hand down more as a junior and then missed a good portion of his senior year. Combine that with a previous concentration on offense, and he still has room to grow and learn as an interior defensive lineman. Those techniques should come as he is a smart, conscientious player who takes the game seriously.

James Light, the guy everyone on Coach twitter must follow, called Benny “The best defensive lineman I coached against last year. Legit baller.” I checked because Light moved jobs last year during the playoffs, but he did not coach against Payne. It’s still not often you get a compliment from James Light.

Benny, a potential MGoBlog reader:

“[Nua] wanted to show me the ins and outs of football, not just defensive line. He wants to show me the actual all-around aspect of football to where I could coach any position, not just d-line. He wants to show me to where I know what the corner has got to do on this play, and I know where the safety has got to be at on this play.

“I like that because I want to actually know the ins and outs so I can do my job better and probably help other people with their jobs too.”

Could I interest you in my Michigan preview book sir? It has a chapter called “Technical Dossier.”

Why Alan Branch but Morelli marked safe? This is a really close comp actually. Branch came out of high school ranked as an offensive tackle because recruiters back then also saw 6’6” guys with quick feet, good brains, length, and more weight in the tush than the shoulders and thought in terms of “NFL teams would pay a fortune for that.” Branch came to Michigan to play DT because we needed those, and made the rotation mid-way through his true freshman year as 3-4 DE. He was never a nose despite getting up over 300. He played with great leverage, was impossible to latch onto, and when he got into the backfield there was a giant OH SHIT moment when you realize you don’t actually have the agility to get away from a bear.

Let’s reactivate the greatest of all site tags now.

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But Morelli marked safe because if you were Anthony Morelli’s mother, and found out Michigan found itself another Alan Branch, you would worry for two seconds as well.

Guru Reliability: Very Low as a DL. This isn’t their fault; I don’t think it was made clear enough above that Benny played mostly OL in high school, and was only trotted out on D when they needed a big play. Benny is still pretty raw as a defensive player for good reason, and that makes him harder to project.

Variance: Moderate. Rivals left him an OL the longest and doesn’t think there are 100 players better than him in the country. 24/7 left him an OT the second-longest and thought there weren’t 200 better guys. ESPN changed him to a DT when he said he was, and declared there are at least 300 guys they like better. This is all kind of saying the same thing, in different rankings.

Ceiling: Very high. Alan Branch was a force for two/three seasons at Michigan, and along with LaMarr Woodley was one of the main reasons Carr switched to a 3-4 look in that era until running a base nickel in 2006. Extremely athletic humongous people are a major part of those 5-2 Ravens fronts that Macdonald is supposedly installing.

In the (very) off chance he’s not needed on defense, Benny was a potential five-star at offensive tackle.

General Excitement Level: Very high. The Morellis must die. Bonus points for breaking Spartan hearts on the way.

Projection: The tackle depth chart isn’t so loaded right now that both freshmen can rest and wait, and while Rooks my be the more developed guy, Benny has the natural ability that can make his presence matter in ways Rooks has to develop. Despite the technique deficiencies and big jump in level of play, I think Benny can find some snaps this year behind the tackles, maybe just off the two-deep to begin, but pressing them as the season goes on. Next year we should start to see it pay off with a serious charge up the depth chart, and then by 2023 he’s a starter at the 3-tech, and playing some “nose” in passing situations when the true nose is lifted. I also expect Michigan State fans to follow his career very closely.

Comments

Magnus

August 16th, 2021 at 12:41 PM ^

Let me start off by saying that I'm not claiming to be an expert, but as someone whose opinions appeared in the piece above, I'll offer my thoughts.

I could go through on a clip-by-clip basis of Benny's senior film and show why he's a) doing well on offense or b) awkward on defense. Now I'm not saying Benny will be a failure on defense, but I just think he projects better on the offensive line. For the record, I said James Hudson would be a better OL than DL (hooray for me!)...but I said Mike Onwenu would be a better DT than OL (I guess that didn't work out).

Anyway, Benny is much more refined on the OL with his footwork, hand placement, etc., and he shows a good understanding of body positioning. Whether that's taking a hard inside step to root out a defender, whether it's turning a guy's upper body while also working the hips around, etc.

Defensively, he plays like an offensive lineman. He plays a little high at times, he doesn't have a good first step (especially when Oak Park put him in a two-point stance at DE), he tends to reach, etc. He's not particularly fast or explosive out of his stance.

I want technicians on the offensive line and athletes on the defensive line. Ideally, you can get both if you recruit really well. But Benny just isn't all that instinctive, and he's off balance when playing defense. I think Michigan will make him better once he's an interior guy rather than a stand-up 5-tech, but he just doesn't have that low, quick burst that I would like to see from a defensive tackle.

Gulogulo37

August 17th, 2021 at 1:01 AM ^

I don't wanna reread to parse through the article, and I'm just a guy (not a dude), but yeah I think you're on the right track. I think athleticism can be a bit broad and can be used in different ways. There's athleticism in that he moves his body and feet well but not terribly athletic with burst and explosion. Not sure it's a lack of athleticism so much as the kind of athleticism that he has.

Magnus

August 17th, 2021 at 1:03 PM ^

I think he's a good athlete, but not a great one.

You also have to remember that good athletes don't always translate from sport to sport, from position to position, etc. An extremely athletic WR might look terrible doing a backpedal from the CB spot. A dominant running back might look like an idiot when throwing the ball.

Just because Benny can block the crap out of a 250-pound high school defensive end doesn't mean he looks good trying to corral 180-pound running backs.

Gulogulo37

August 17th, 2021 at 1:03 AM ^

Do you think the defensive coaching switch at Michigan benefits him then? From what I've gathered, the coaches aren't looking as much for burst and shooting gaps as they were under Brown. Seems now it's more about size and plugging gaps. Obviously you'd still take an athletic freak who can do it all though.

bronxblue

August 16th, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^

Benny feels like a guy who looks a little lost his first year and then makes a big leap after that initial transition and looks like a multi-year starter after that.  I really like this pick-up on the line.