Can we definitively say Les Miles is oversigning again? And what can we say about it?

Submitted by mejunglechop on

 

First thing's first, I think I did a pretty thorough job, but if you think any of my numbers need to be corrected, just say so in the comments. This can be a group effort.

One of the most common objections heard from Michigan fans with respect to the potential hiring of Les Miles is that he's demonstrated a penchant for oversigning. ESPN's Outside the Lines produced a segment about a month ago widely linked to on this board highlighting LSU's use of this practice under Miles. If it matters to you my take is that it's abhorrent that a head coach making a multimillion dollar salary and with tremendous institutional backing could go into some poor kid's home and sell the promise of a college degree and then spit the kid out when he becomes expendable. I would hate seeing someone who'd do that become the head coach at my alma mater both for the sake of the kids he'd recruit and for the fact that he'd be the most public face of my school. Game theory be damned.

I got into an argument with psychomatt earlier about whether LSU was set to oversign again this year. I cited http://www.oversigning.com which says LSU currently has 8 more commits than it will have a place for. Psychomatt disputed these numbers. So, fair enough. Let's take a closer look.

As chronicled by the OTL report LSU trimmed down right before fall camp to get down to 85 scholarship players to start the year. Since, one player was dismissed from the team and none have transferred. The player dismissed was fullback Dominique Allen. He had a scholarship, was dismissed for an undisclosed violation of team rules, and Miles noted interestingly at the press conference that walk on James Stampley was clearly the number 1 fullback anyway.

That gets us down to 84.

Now, to the roster analysis:

Outgoing seniors

There are 9 outgoing scholarship seniors. They are: Terrence Tolliver, Lezerius Levingston, Josh Jasper, Derek Helton, Richard Murphy, Jai Eugene, Joseph Barksdale, Kelvin Sheppard and Drake Nevis.

All other seniors on LSUs website are either expressly denoted as walk ons or have completely blank bio pages and no varsity letters. Exception: Dan Graff, listed as a player-coach (?!) who joined the team as a sophomore walk on. I'm confident in counting on him still being a walk on.

Potential 5th year candidates 

  • Josh Dworaczyk- has started every game for them at left guard this year. Will almost certainly return.
  • Will Blackwell- was the starter at the beginning of the year at right guard before injuring his ankle. He recovered to play in the final 3 games. Probably back.
  • T-Bob Hebert-  took over Blackwell's starting job when he went down and spent the previous year starting at center. As a multi year starter he'll be welcomed back. 
  • Stevan Ridley- LSU's top back this year getting 249 carries and 1,147 yards. If he wants to come back he can. And he probably will come back at least according to where he's currently projected to go in the draft and to general message board scuttlebutt.
  • Stefoin Francois- Started every game at linebacker, will be welcomed back. Not thought to be a draft risk.
  • Ron Brooks- backup cornerback/strong safety and contributor on special teams. Played all 12 games, but started none. Put up decent numbers, though, 28 tackles 5 tfls and 3 PBUs. With Peterson leaving on the one hand and the number crunch on the other let's give him a 50-50 chance of being back.
  • Jarrett Lee- 2nd string qb. It might be conceivable they'd let him go, but because Miles in his infinite wisdom, put Russell Shepard at wide receiver (seriously if he comes RIP Dilithium), their current 3rd string option is a freshman walk on. Zac Mettenberger (highly touted Georgia castoff) is about to come aboard though. But still, who likes having a redshirt freshman walk on as your 3rd string? Lee's getting invited back.
  • Jordan Jefferson- Starting qb. He's welcome back.
  • Patrick Peterson- Thorpe winner. All world cb. NFL. Gone.
  • Alex Russian- Cone like tight end turned backup snapper. It's a wonder he isn't gone already.
  • Mitch Joseph- in LSU's 3 man tight end rotation. Started 4 games this year. Let's say it's 50-50.

Only case with any ambiguity is Dennis Johnson, but after going through message board stuff I'm 90% sure he's a walk on.

So giving Les more wiggle room than he probably deserves let's count the maybes as both out. So in total we'll say that's 4 RS juniors not coming back. Obviously that +9 seniors +1 free schollie = 14.

Potential 3rd year draft entrants

I couldn't find any 3rd year guys LSU fans seem worried about losing early to the draft. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Medical Hardships

As Brian explained here , outside Alabama, medical hardships aren't very common. In fact, between 2008 and 2010 SEC schools that don't love houndstooth on average gave out slightly more than one each.

Recruits who fail to enroll

LSU currently has 21 commitments and is still in on some prospects. Let's hypothesize they don't gain or lose any commits between now and signing day, although it's probably more likely they gain. From 2005-2010 (Les' tenure) LSU has signed 144 players of whom 135 qualified academically and enrolled.* That makes for a 93.75% matriculation rate. Obviously using this rate to project into the future has its limitations, Miles might have changed his recruiting philosophy and taken on more high risk kids this year, but given how much he oversigned by last year and that 28 of the 29 in that class enrolled, I doubt a huge variation is likely this year. Anyway, using that figure we can project that 1 player not qualifying is the most likely outcome, having 2 not qualify is the second most likely outcome and having none fail to qualify the 3rd most likely outcome. Let's go with taking one out since it's the most likely statistically and they might end up with more commitments anyway. 

Conclusion

You don't really need me for this, it's simple math. But giving Les more wiggle room than he probably deserves this is what we get 84 - 9 - 4 + 20 = 91. Miles is looking at being 6 above the limit right now.

Is this really a big deal?

I can hear people say it now: But, but, that's not accounting for players who choose to transfer voluntarily or make boneheaded decisions in the offseason and get kicked out justifiably!

To reply: Yes

Any oversigning analysis shouldn't account for that. For a coach to take a kid's signature, or even a commitment, when he doesn't have a spot for him is fundamentally wrong. Even if he thinks it's more likely than not that the spot he needs will free up in time, he promised a player much younger than him, usually much poorer and less powerful the opportunity to get a degree and play the sport he loves and by accepting that signature or commitment he doesn't have a spot for he's putting that at risk. It's grossly reckless and highly irresponsible. No institution of higher learning should be associated with it. And really, if a football program ends up a few scholarship players short is it the worst thing in the world? Those scholarships would instead go to deserving walk ons. And what's wrong with that?

Comments

jlvanals

January 10th, 2011 at 11:32 AM ^

There isn't one.  Lloyd Carr and his staff bent over backwards to keep the kids they recruited in school and the only guys that left while my brother was at school left for more PT elsewhere and/or discipline issues.   I have no personal knowledge of Rich Rodriguez's practices, but from what I've read on this site and others, the only kids that left were for egregious rule violations (drug dealing, etc.) or transfers that  seemed legit. 

RR might not have won enough games at Michigan, but the guy never mistreated or ran off any players, as far as I know.  And, to be honest, with so many sites out there covering Michigan football, it seems unlikely that something like this would pass unnoticed.

jlvanals

January 10th, 2011 at 11:06 AM ^

We deserve to lose if this many people in our fan base would put winning above treating college athletes with a shred of dignity.   My brother played football at UM and was injured every year he was at Michigan.  At LSU, he probably gets run off the team and left to twist in the wind.  At UM, he got to finish his education and play useful minutes on the 2006 squad.  That, to me, is why I became a UM fan.  The coaches, players and administration exemplified class from the moment they started recruiting him until the day he left as an academic all big ten player, after 5 surgeries in 5 years.   Players are not some commodity for you all (or the coaches) to dispose of when the player ceases to be useful to the program.  Being the leaders and best is about more than winning a stupid kid's game on 12 fall saturdays, it's about doing the right thing, even if it costs you in the short term.   

While I don't disagree with his firing (the on-field performance was not up to par), Rodriguez is more of a Michigan man than Les Miles (or apparently a number of posters on this site) will ever be. 

M-Wolverine

January 13th, 2011 at 12:07 AM ^

The Michigan Difference. It really is a family. They are the one's who only watch on Saturday, and talk smack to their co-workers on Monday. But those that have been around realize Michigan is a special place. Our new coach will continue that.
<br>
<br>Thank you for this post.

mark5750

January 10th, 2011 at 11:07 AM ^

This is more of a question than a comment and if it makes no sense at all please forgive me.  Currently Michigan is under NCAA probation for practive gate.  After LM is hired as the next Michigan coach and he over-signs here as he has at LSU, do we stand any chance at being a repeat while under probation offender?

SanFrancisco_W…

January 10th, 2011 at 11:49 AM ^

Boy, I hope we can run another coach out of town as quickly as we did the last one! I mean seriously guys, what is this a damn smear campaign?

Mudslinging isn't cool unless you say exactly what you mean anyway, for instance, "If you vote for Nixon, you ought to go to hell."-Harry Truman 1960

markusr2007

January 10th, 2011 at 12:05 PM ^

and fields a competitive football team every Saturday afternoon.

He achieved 11 wins this year (2010) over 13 games with his own recruits (no more "did it with Saban's players").

Not much really, but it's more than what Michigan has been able to achieve the last 3 years under Rodriguez

Sometimes I wonder what has all of this playing by the rules gotten Michigan anyway? Integrity? Character? The world has changed.  Look at Jim Tressel and Ohio State and their list of violations? Cameron Newton? Pete Carroll at USC? Lane Kiffin?  Even Michigan got slapped with minor violations and probations and is part of the club.

Hell, you can sign a mortgage debt obligation on one day and then squat in the house and not pay it back the next day. No consequences.

I don't like it. I don't agree with it. But if there's any doubt in your mind after what Ohio State pulled with the NCAA for the Sugar Bowl game eligibilities and that it's all about wins and money, it's time to ask the question about playing by the rules.  

mejunglechop

January 10th, 2011 at 12:22 PM ^

Sometimes I wonder what has all of this playing by the rules gotten Michigan anyway? Integrity? Character?

It's been a shaping influence on the lives of hundreds (thousands?) of young men who were treated better than cattle. How much value you assign to this speaks fundamentally to why you care about sports in the first place. If you care a lot about wins and losses and not so much about the players, well, there's the NFL for people like you.

jamiemac

January 10th, 2011 at 12:09 PM ^

Nice Diary

It's interesting hearing people who seem to think Miles ethics would suddenly turn clean in Ann Arbor. Either Brandon will law down the law and tell him what is what or that Michigan has a higher ground as an institution that will keep a guy like Les in line with some of his questionable ethics. As if a mere location change will change who is he.

All well and good

Except, man, you sure do sound a lot like the Indiana Univeristy fanbase in the summer of 2006 trying to convince themselves that Kelvin Sampson, surrounded by the squeaky clean IU program, would get over his own questionable ethics. How did that work out again?

If Miles is hired, I will support the team. But, I am not a fan of this man. I think he is, who he is. The conference he is playing in, isnt driving who he is. His actions speak.

Also, Les has maybe the fourth most talented state in his back yard, with no legit in state competition. Dont you have to wonder how successful a coach he would be if wasnt able to his open his door to that state and oversign players from a talent rich area. I kinda do. And, I'm not sure I want to find out the answer to that question in Ann Arbor.

jlvanals

January 10th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^

I just said this exact same thing to three of the guys I went to IU with (who happen to be from Columbus and huge bucks fans, should be obvious why we have a very active email string dating back to 2002).   Not surprisingly, I think that comparison is dead on.  If I had to choose between a good coach with a spotless record (say, Hoke) and a very good coach with a questionable record (Miles), I would take Hoke in a heartbeat. 

The scary thing is that if Tom Crean doesn't accept that job and go through the last 2.5 seasons of hell, IU might not have been salvageable as a major basketball program.  Crean is proof that if you do things the right way, the recruits will eventually come and (hopefully) so will the wins. 

jamiemac

January 10th, 2011 at 12:54 PM ^

Yep. Sadly, I know this is dead on because I too am an IU Alum (Class of '94) and, well, yeah, I was one of the many who said it. After struggling with Coach Mike Davis, I gladly accepted Sampson's baggage and thought our prisiine, ethical repuation would wrap KS up, hug him and show him the way.

Instead, we leared that the only way he knew how to do things was to constantly take the ethical low road. Maybe Michigan can do better, but I still wonder if Miles can win without shady ethics. It would suck if Rodriguez to Miles was the Michigan football version of Davis to Sampson. Maybe then we could get Harbaugh to dig us out. Although, I am sure his brother-in-law might warn him about how long it might take. I'd say LOL, but its not.

God Bless Tom Crean. The road to recovery is long. Very Long. I hope we stay patient with him and the team down there. Big game Saturday night! My loyalties will be divided, for sure

M-Wolverine

January 13th, 2011 at 12:12 AM ^

And the University backed us up. Especially how it played out. And everyone knows where they stood when the going got tough.