Cade v JJ CSU using Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria
On the Jansen podcast where Harbaugh announced the QB plan for the first two games, Coach was asked how he would evaluate the QBs. He said how he always does:
1. As a passer - accuracy, timing, etc.
2. Playmaker - make play from nothing, runner, etc.
3. Field general - move the team. Points per drive
He also gave 4 metrics
A. Points per drive. (Most important)
B. 3rd down efficiency
C. Red zone efficiency
D. 2 minute efficiency
Obviously, with JJ still to get his start, it’s not a completely fair comparison, and we don’t get to see practice or practice numbers. But let’s look at Harbaugh’s eval criteria for Saturday’s game.
I would give all 3 of the qualities of a QB to JJ in this game. In practice, Harbaugh gave the passer edge to Cade, the playmaker to JJ and the field general with slight edge to Cade.
The metrics: Cade JJ
Points/drive 23/7 = 3.3 14/2 = 7
3rd down eff 1/7 = 14% 1/1 = 100%
Red zone eff 1/4 = 25% 2/2 = 100%
2 min eff 3. N/A
Red zone eff I used simple TD per opportunity
2 min eff is points per opportunity
Sample size disparities are apparent and there will be more clarity after Hawaii. It will be interesting to revisit Harbaugh’s evaluation criteria and metrics after game two.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:07 PM ^
The WHOLE team keeps winning… I think even the most objective fan can see why JJ is likely to be the starter. It’s disingenuous to act like Cade is the reason for all the wins. Strong Defense and running game has been the catalyst. You could almost make the case that they won in spite of him in some games. What game did they win in the last 15 games that you could say he won it?Washington? 300 yds rushing and he threw about 10 passes. PSU? A pass to All that he (All) took to the house? OSU? Threw a pick in the end zone that would’ve put us up 14-3… Thankfully AH had 3 sacks and we had a beast mode performance from HH… Iowa? Edward’s had the TD pass that broke it open after Corum scored on a long run with JJ out there. I get we want to romanticize his play but if we are being honest JJ at the least can give us what Cade gives us and the ceiling is much higher.
September 4th, 2022 at 11:54 PM ^
The team wins. He does enough to not screw it up. When he was called upon (against Georgia when the run game wasn't working) he was putrid. That was while operating behind the best offensive line in football, with a good group of receivers. That's what we call a ceiling. There will always be a Georgia or Alabama level defense waiting for you in the CFP. You can't ask for better protection than having the best OL unit in the country. So what changes for Cade? You can't teach him to be fast. You can't teach him how to be a dual threat QB. You can't "not turn the ball over" your way past a Georgia or Alabama. Meanwhile, JJ has the natural abilities that Cade doesn't. You can coach JJ on how to take care of the ball. You can coach JJ to take check downs when the deep shots aren't there. Considering our coach's specialty is QB coaching, why not put faith in Harbaugh that he can help JJ reach his potential?
September 4th, 2022 at 6:19 PM ^
In another thread I mentioned that we're jumping all over this (I include myself) based on a small sample size. We have two good QB choices, and it's also true that JJ came in after the team was up 30, and the opposing defense was already whipped.
However, it's clear that JJ has a terrific upside and we don't want to lose him.
Yet the team wouldn't have voted Cade a captain if they weren't squarely behind him.
I know the conventional wisdom is to have one guy. I do, however, remember that at the end of the '90s, people were pulling for Drew Henson, and calling the GOAT a 'game manager' with less talent. Henson had the arm strength and the flash, and that's why the GOAT was a 6th rounder.
I wish them both success. I don't know either guy, but the coaches do. I'm willing to bet they share our concerns and know they have a real dilemma on their hands. I'm also willing to bet that with their extensive experience in college and the NFL, they know how to handle the situation.
That's all I've got. I won't tell other people what they ought to think about this. In fact, I'm not yet sure what I think, except that it's great to have both of these players on the roster. What talent we have.
I watched the OSU/Notre Dame game last night and couldn't help thinking that neither of these teams was all that impressive. I think on a good day, we can beat either one.
I suppose I've dodged the issue somewhat, but...Go Blue!
September 4th, 2022 at 7:56 PM ^
Personally, I wouldn't put any stock into the captain thing.
There was an entire month discussion about how Connor Cook wasn't named a team captain and how horrible it was. Dude led them to the playoff.
I think it's a huge stretch to compare the Henson situation to Cade/JJ. Brady has an IMMACULATE deep ball, Cade doesn't.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:24 PM ^
Exactly. Brady also 6'4" while Cade maybe 6'0"
Cade loses downs by getting balls batted at the line of scrimmage. That's not happening to JJ as much at 6'3"
What I will give Cade is he has a better pocket awareness than JJ and seems to know when to step forward in the pocket. I could see JJ getting more fumbles back there. But outside of that, all advantages to JJ now in my opinion.
September 4th, 2022 at 9:22 PM ^
The GOAT had several come-from-behind wins when he went in.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:25 PM ^
Cade had a 39.7 QBR through 2.5 quarters against Colorado effing State...yeah, Jim should have his finger on the eject button.
September 4th, 2022 at 6:56 PM ^
So we going to ignore last season or we trigger finger happy after one poor outing?
September 4th, 2022 at 6:58 PM ^
I think this one "poor outing" is from McNamara feeling his coach doesn't believe in him.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:21 PM ^
If that’s all it takes, he’s in trouble.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:52 PM ^
I believe you mean “we” are in trouble, FIFY
September 4th, 2022 at 8:36 PM ^
No, I don’t. I mean “he’s”. Nice try though NFN…
September 4th, 2022 at 10:17 PM ^
Spicy take, but my point is that we need both QBs and if one of them has the “yips” for whatever reason then “we” as a team and as a fan base are in trouble because, obviously…
September 4th, 2022 at 11:22 PM ^
I got you my man. I agree. I do feel like he is hurting himself more by acting out… That is not how a captain acts. I wonder how the vote would be now if guys see him putting self over the overall good of the team.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:26 PM ^
Last season is irrelevant now. Yes, we ignore last season. Saban was willing to change to a freshman at the half of a championship game. If you want to play with the big boys, you have to make big boy decisions.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:40 AM ^
My finger is on the button for either QB, and all Cade had to do was not suck saturday, but he couldnt do that...if JJ is named the starter after next week, then say goes into Iowa and has a bad half against a real defense, then Cade should get a chance to go in and see if he can get it done and win the job back. None of this is personal, it's not about last year, it's about the here and now; and in this limited sample size, JJ clearly has the leg up on Cade so far.
September 5th, 2022 at 11:23 PM ^
We ignore last season after acknowledging that Cade was an integral part of our best season in 25 years. Chapeau, Cade, thanks and you did well.
BUT
We have another QB here who has improved and needs to be given the chance to win the job. So, competition. In that sense, we ignore last season and go by performances happening now. As far as being trigger-happy, Jim hasn't given the QB1 job to JJ. Cade will get more chances, I would think.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:14 PM ^
September 4th, 2022 at 7:12 PM ^
Cade would actually be fine committing himself to his Michigan degree and everything else the place represents. Could never imagine him leaving for sake of just having the chance to play more football. Don't think this is the only thing that defines him as shown through how he handles himself and his connection to the program and the student body.
September 5th, 2022 at 12:51 AM ^
You can’t imagine McNamara “leaving for sake of just having the chance to play more football?” I can’t imagine him not leaving for that reason.
September 4th, 2022 at 7:53 PM ^
I think we are making this WAY too complicated (which is fine for you stat dorks lol).
JJ was sharp, fast, and energetic. His passes have some serious zip and they were all on the mark. He gives an added dimension.
Cade is solid. No more, no less. I know we put a lot of points into the whole "leader" concept, but there is some narrative that seems to illustrate he's a superior leader to JJ. I'm very appreciative of Cade, and always will be. But let's not get it twisted- my man benefited from one of the greatest defenses in school history and a nearly unstoppable running game. In the Georgia game, we all saw what he could do against a superior defense, which wasn't much. At the VERY LEAST, JJ made some things happen against Georgia.
Someone said it best- every season is a totally different animal. I just get the feeling this group of guys is better suited to JJ.
September 5th, 2022 at 1:08 PM ^
Your last sentence says it all. Our running game will take a (small? small-ish?) step back this year, so the passing game has to be better. And with our WRs / TEs / Edwards to catch passes, it absolutely can be A LOT better. But it will take JJ to get it there.
Now if JJ turns out to be mistake-prone, that puts us in a spot. But we need to roll with JJ to find that out, especially after Cade's performance in the first game.
September 4th, 2022 at 8:42 PM ^
If they're going to be a run first team why would you not ride with JJ? He opens the run by having to account for his legs. Short passes they'll get there faster and give wr's more time to make a move.
September 4th, 2022 at 10:00 PM ^
My hot take is that we need JJ's enthusiasm to replace Hutch's exuberance. I love Cade, but the offence needs the spark that JJ provides.
September 4th, 2022 at 11:38 PM ^
JJ for the win
September 4th, 2022 at 11:43 PM ^
We know what Cade brings to the table. If there was no JJ breathing down his neck I would not be all that excited with Cade as the starter. JJ brings excitement and the potential for greatness because he’s a dual threat guy with a better arm, and can make something out of nothing. When has Cade done that? Cade is a strong leader but only slightly above serviceable at the most important position on the team.
September 5th, 2022 at 6:12 AM ^
Cade’s comments after the game, in my humble opinion, lacked leadership. Actually, his performance and words match up well.
To me it’s simple…JJ opens the entire playbook and Cade doesn’t.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:59 AM ^
Completely agree with this. I was a Cade guy, thought his decision-making and accuracy were underrated. But his postgame comments were really selfish and a big turnoff.
September 5th, 2022 at 8:56 AM ^
Red zone efficiency should be points per opportunity.
September 5th, 2022 at 1:19 PM ^
Play better than the back up or you become the backup. I think that’s how it is for every starter at this level of football. Cade still has time to do that, but so does JJ.
September 5th, 2022 at 7:49 PM ^
I don't think a there was a single straight handoff called with JJ in the game, he was 4/4 on passing and every one of his reads was correct.
It's clear this offense is designed to operate with a solid run game backed up by constant reads and probably play action and flea-flickers.
JJ probably wont read every time, can't break him, but there's a whole dimension to this offense that just doesnt exist with Cade. If JJ can continue to keep his accuracy up and show that he can make mature decisions with the ball then it's going to be his seat to lose.
September 6th, 2022 at 6:49 AM ^
One out of seven 3rd down conversions is not good.