Not sure who this was directed at but I just googled it and there seems to be some debate on who actually said it. I'm sure many people have but the first one that popped up was Lincoln. There are some links that said Twain and some that say Hemingway. Pretty fair to say no one knows for sure as the quote is credited to a few different people. I think Goggles P was right when he said maybe that debate deserves a thread of it's own haha.
I guess I can't say for sure but maybe you can help us out...?
That would be one of the fair things to rip ND on. I mean, I don't think Kelly sent Declan Sullivan up there with the intent of him dying but it was without a doubt an extremely bad decision that is deserving of any criticism.
That's a fair rip. This tweet was just ignorant on many levels. Kind of like that Abe Lincoln quote, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
So Michigan's recruiting director imitates a tweet by ND football's twitter account and then accuses the Irish of imitating Michigan. He accuses ND of imitating UM by sending kids abroad when ND has been doing it longer and PLENTY of schools do it besides these two. He basically played himself in every sense with that tweet.
Could have just left it alone but now he looks like a classless fool to anyone who follows these two programs closely.
There are plenty of things people can rip on ND about but this one made no sense.
This is the first time they've had a game changer at QB under Saban. If anything, they are more dangerous now than ever. They won all those titles with QB's who weren't more than game managers except for McCarron (he deserves more credit, he was pretty good) and now they have a star in the making at QB to go along with the studs that litter the rest of their roster.
Going out on a huuuuge limb here but they're winning it all again this year.
It's a bad look for ND and I believe Del Alexander (WR coach at ND) messed up and was caught off guard by the commitment. None of the ND insiders saw this one coming and I believe some had him pegged to commit to Purdue. ND's WR class will be very small this year (1, maybe 2) after taking 4 last year and just got a WR commit from Cam Hart on July 4th for this class. In a recent interview Sheffield said he hadn't had any communication with ND "for months" and then calls Del telling him he's going to commit and Del congratulated him when he should have had a better handle on ND's WR board and 2019 class as a whole. The one excuse Del has is that he was supposedly on vacation but he should still know better than to just accept the kids commitment, especially when the kid's commitment tweet specifically says that he will be taking other visits in the fall. Del messed up but at least he let TJ know soon after that they couldn't accept his commitment. And Kelly never accepted the commitment and never sent out his normal "#WeareND" tweet when someone commits. And yes, I know Michigan has been in this situation before too. Sucks that you never hear the schools side of things like in the whole Matt Falcon ordeal where Michigan turned out to be right.
And I just wanted to say thanks to the guys who gave me some thoughtful and respectful replies...I know it's not always like that when someone from an opposing fanbase visits another teams forums haha.
Yea, I didnt say UM wanted a permanent end to the series but they did say they wouldnt be renewing the contract. The article I read was from The Ann Arbor News, I think...I'll try to find it.
But my main issue is with the "chickening out" stance UM and a lot of UM fans have taken (which I get, it's funny and it's a jab at a rival...just isn't true IMO). If we could have avoided the series being put on hiatus I bet almost anything we would have. Our future matchups with Purdue and MSU are also up in the air. The whole deal with the Big East fading away pretty much created this whole hiatus. If we could have remained in the Big East and remained completely independent in football the series would still be on, IMO. But since the Big East went bye bye we had to look at other options for our other sports and it seems like the ACC was our best, most flexible option to remain (mostly) independent in football but be total members in all other sports. If the ACC would have let us get away with total independence like the Big East did then I doubt we're having this discussion...buuut we have the 5 games per year deal to fulfill with the ACC.
Oh and I believe the following link is the article I read.
I agree the series will resume before too long. I say within a couple years of 2020. Both schools know how big this game is...I don't care what Kelly or Swarbrick have said previously and how they've downplayed it. But I don't think it's a mistake by ND either. We were fine the last few times you guys decided to put the series on hold and we'll be fine this time when we decided to put it on hold. I also don't think we'll ever see ND in the Big Ten after getting spurned when we tried to join way back when. We proved after that that we didn't need to be in a conference to be a power and we still dont need a conference seeing as our schedule is consistantly one of the toughest in the country, year in year out. Everybody likes playing ND, it's good exposure and...lately...not an incredibly tough game.
As I've said previously tho, I hate that the series is coming to an end for a bit. I live in Michigan and am an ND fan, with all my closest friends being UM fans...it's easily the game I look forward to most all year.
I also believe the reason for joining the ACC was more for other sports since we're a permanent member in those sports and only a partial member in football. Just part of the deal. I bet if the ACC would have been ok with us just staying completely independent in football (like the Big East was) we wouldnt even be having this discussion about the ND-UM series taking a hiatus...but sadly (for me), that's not the case. The ACC was probably the most flexible about our independence of the conferences we could choose from.
I like that we'll both be playing other teams but wish it was done some other way. But if we were to play UM, Texas or Georgia (both future meetings we have scheduled), FSU, USC, Stanford, Clemson, VaTech etc...in one year, we'd be asking for a few losses no matter how good we might be. That's a brutal schedule and would be completely stupid on our part. I'm all for a tough schedule but there's a limit if you want to win titles.
I don't believe either team is or would be "chickening out". But our season hasnt been ruined so to speak. I'd argue that even after the losses (which were fair and square) we've went on to have a better overall season with the exception of 2011. I have nothing against the UM football team or university but I do disagree with the "chicken" thought process. Just look at our schedule and future schedules...that's not a schedule made by chickens lol. I actually kind of respect UM for being a pretty clean program. I'm not here to hate on you guys.
I'll go on record as sad to see the series go. As an ND fan in Michigan it's the game I look forward to the most every year. But if I'm remembering right, you guys said you wouldn't be renewing the ND contract after it was up to seek "other out of conference options" or something like that. And that was years before we exercised the 3 year opt out.
But like I said, I wish the series would continue. Kinda bummed ND decided to expedite the process but I'm sure the rivalry will continue at some point in the not too distant future. We've taken many breaks before in this series only for it to resume. It wont be nonexistant for too long. Too much history and tradition.
And I, personally, think that if we were going to chicken out against anyone we'd opt not to play Stanford haha...they've been beating our ass lately unlike you guys who usually win a tight game the last 5 or so years. But they're in Cali where we want to maintain our recruiting footprint...which makes sense to me. But at the same time I get why you guys say we're "chickening out"...we'd prolly be saying the same thing if the sides were reversed.
My understanding is that they reported it to the NCAA prior to the press conference...the day before if memory serves me right. I believe the reason for the press conference was because someone from the NCAA was going to leak, or had leaked, the info... so ND got ahead of it publicly with the press conference.
I appreciate your info as well. That sounds about like what I've heard. MOST faculty are aware that football is a big deal and want the team to succeed and see the benefits that a successful football team can bring to the university both athletically and academically but there are SOME who couldn't care less about the football team and would rather have it done away with. I have no source for my info like you do tho...just things I've heard from people who supposedly do have sources inside ND or who work there themselves.
That makes sense to me. Thanks for the explanation. I personally don't think ND will put athletics ahead of academics (Golson last year) but they had to report it somewhere and the NCAA is the most logical place to report it to, right? If they didnt everyone would be saying ND was trying to cover this up or something.
I've heard things about a lot of people in ND's honor committee and positions of discipline who could care less about the football team or any athletics and basically want ND to be more like the Ivy League schools where athletics are of no impotance. That sucks cuz I'm an ND football fan first and foremost but I also want us to win the right way and with people like that in those positions it seems like we will do things the right way. The STUDENT-athlete way. I don't expect ND to lose sight of the student aspect anytime soon. They've proven this by suspending their (aguably) most valuable athletes in 2 sports in the same year (Golson in football and Jerian Grant in Bball).
I agree that that is most likely why ND brought it to light in the press conference. But they had already reported the investigation to the NCAA prior to the press conference. That's all they could really do...what more should they have done? The NCAA is the governing body if I'm not mistaken and has the power to do any sort of investigation they want after ND is finished if they so choose. I could be wrong on that...I'm no lawyer. But that's my understanding.
I also agree that the NCAA has proven to be inept when dealing with this sort of thing. UNC basically had a program set up by high ups in the university to take the "student" out of student-athlete. It wasn't a case of a few players cheating (which I can almost guarantee happens everywhere) like at ND, it was a whole different thing UNC had set up and they got off VERY lightly on the punishment side of things from the NCAA in my opinion. They (the NCAA) lost A LOT of credibility overall in their handling of that situation in my eyes.
I respect those of you saying ND is rigorous and unlikely to let a contributing player off the hook just because he is a "contributer". Every guy in this investigation was a contributor. Moore is the only one who wasn't a starter but even he could be used meaningfully against power run teams on our schedule like UM, Stanford, etc. I forgot about Hardy as well who was the late addition and is a back up safety.
I doubt ND would have brought this to the NCAA's attention if they didnt plan on doing a proper and thorough investigation. You don't see many schools holding out KEY players (Golson all of last year) for academic issues. Maybe a slap on the wrist punishment or a game or two suspension. To me this speaks volumes about ND's willingness to be a respected academic institution over a powerhouse athletic/football program. It doesn't help us win more games, that's for sure.
The investigation was held completely seperate from anything dealing with athletics. Only academics were taken into account and even coach Kelly had no idea of the investigation until the day before it was announced. It has since concluded last week and the meetings to determine the athletes eligibility are SUPPOSEDLY going to happen this week sometime.
Everything is pretty much speculation at this point tho and no one knows for sure who (if anyone) will be cleared, suspended, expelled, etc.
Oh and to answer any questions about the players availability while suspended during the investigation...I think (could be wrong) they were just suspended from team activities like practice. They had access to the facilities and training table and that sort of thing so they should have been able to stay in shape if they wanted to. I'm most unsure of what they were and werent allowed to do tho...something I'll have to look in to more.
Hopefully if you guys have any other questions I can help as much as I possible. But I'm no "insider" or anything like that. Just follow all things ND so maybe I can answer some questions. Feel free to ask away or critique me. I'm pretty easy going so I wont get worked up if you wanna make fun of Manti or something haha.
First time poster here. I'll get it out of the way now...I'm an ND fan living in Michigan with tons of friends who are Michigan fans so I know a fair amount about your team. Not great knowledge but good enough to keep some decent discussion I hope.
I'm thinking this will be another close game in the series (go figure) and will be pretty high scoring. Our offense is a whole different animal with a QB like Golson at the helm. It's a typical Brian Kelly offense that he just couldn't run with Rees. Our defense will be going through some growing pains since we are doing a 180 in terms of scheme going from a bend but dont break, conservative 3-4 base to an attacking, aggressive, blitzing 4-3 base. We will get burned with the big plays early in the season until all the guys can adjust to the new system. And you guys have the talent and playmakers to burn us for our mistakes in adjusting to the new scheme.
I think Nuss is just what you guys needed on offense to get things turned around there. And Funchess is a beast who we will have to find some sort of answer for. If we had a full strength Russell (one of the suspended players) I'd say he could at least limit Funchess somewhat but since he hasnt been practicing for over 2 weeks I'm not sure of the difference he'll make.
I'm looking forward to a good game this Saturday though. Should be fun to watch.
Recent Comments
Not sure who this was directed at but I just googled it and there seems to be some debate on who actually said it. I'm sure many people have but the first one that popped up was Lincoln. There are some links that said Twain and some that say Hemingway. Pretty fair to say no one knows for sure as the quote is credited to a few different people. I think Goggles P was right when he said maybe that debate deserves a thread of it's own haha.
I guess I can't say for sure but maybe you can help us out...?
That would be one of the fair things to rip ND on. I mean, I don't think Kelly sent Declan Sullivan up there with the intent of him dying but it was without a doubt an extremely bad decision that is deserving of any criticism.
That's a fair rip. This tweet was just ignorant on many levels. Kind of like that Abe Lincoln quote, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
Dudek removed all doubt.
So Michigan's recruiting director imitates a tweet by ND football's twitter account and then accuses the Irish of imitating Michigan. He accuses ND of imitating UM by sending kids abroad when ND has been doing it longer and PLENTY of schools do it besides these two. He basically played himself in every sense with that tweet.
Could have just left it alone but now he looks like a classless fool to anyone who follows these two programs closely.
There are plenty of things people can rip on ND about but this one made no sense.
Except that ND did schedule OSU.
This is the first time they've had a game changer at QB under Saban. If anything, they are more dangerous now than ever. They won all those titles with QB's who weren't more than game managers except for McCarron (he deserves more credit, he was pretty good) and now they have a star in the making at QB to go along with the studs that litter the rest of their roster.
Going out on a huuuuge limb here but they're winning it all again this year.
It's a bad look for ND and I believe Del Alexander (WR coach at ND) messed up and was caught off guard by the commitment. None of the ND insiders saw this one coming and I believe some had him pegged to commit to Purdue. ND's WR class will be very small this year (1, maybe 2) after taking 4 last year and just got a WR commit from Cam Hart on July 4th for this class. In a recent interview Sheffield said he hadn't had any communication with ND "for months" and then calls Del telling him he's going to commit and Del congratulated him when he should have had a better handle on ND's WR board and 2019 class as a whole. The one excuse Del has is that he was supposedly on vacation but he should still know better than to just accept the kids commitment, especially when the kid's commitment tweet specifically says that he will be taking other visits in the fall. Del messed up but at least he let TJ know soon after that they couldn't accept his commitment. And Kelly never accepted the commitment and never sent out his normal "#WeareND" tweet when someone commits. And yes, I know Michigan has been in this situation before too. Sucks that you never hear the schools side of things like in the whole Matt Falcon ordeal where Michigan turned out to be right.
And I just wanted to say thanks to the guys who gave me some thoughtful and respectful replies...I know it's not always like that when someone from an opposing fanbase visits another teams forums haha.
Yea, I didnt say UM wanted a permanent end to the series but they did say they wouldnt be renewing the contract. The article I read was from The Ann Arbor News, I think...I'll try to find it.
But my main issue is with the "chickening out" stance UM and a lot of UM fans have taken (which I get, it's funny and it's a jab at a rival...just isn't true IMO). If we could have avoided the series being put on hiatus I bet almost anything we would have. Our future matchups with Purdue and MSU are also up in the air. The whole deal with the Big East fading away pretty much created this whole hiatus. If we could have remained in the Big East and remained completely independent in football the series would still be on, IMO. But since the Big East went bye bye we had to look at other options for our other sports and it seems like the ACC was our best, most flexible option to remain (mostly) independent in football but be total members in all other sports. If the ACC would have let us get away with total independence like the Big East did then I doubt we're having this discussion...buuut we have the 5 games per year deal to fulfill with the ACC.
Oh and I believe the following link is the article I read.
http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-football/michigan-football-announces-…
I agree the series will resume before too long. I say within a couple years of 2020. Both schools know how big this game is...I don't care what Kelly or Swarbrick have said previously and how they've downplayed it. But I don't think it's a mistake by ND either. We were fine the last few times you guys decided to put the series on hold and we'll be fine this time when we decided to put it on hold. I also don't think we'll ever see ND in the Big Ten after getting spurned when we tried to join way back when. We proved after that that we didn't need to be in a conference to be a power and we still dont need a conference seeing as our schedule is consistantly one of the toughest in the country, year in year out. Everybody likes playing ND, it's good exposure and...lately...not an incredibly tough game.
As I've said previously tho, I hate that the series is coming to an end for a bit. I live in Michigan and am an ND fan, with all my closest friends being UM fans...it's easily the game I look forward to most all year.
I also believe the reason for joining the ACC was more for other sports since we're a permanent member in those sports and only a partial member in football. Just part of the deal. I bet if the ACC would have been ok with us just staying completely independent in football (like the Big East was) we wouldnt even be having this discussion about the ND-UM series taking a hiatus...but sadly (for me), that's not the case. The ACC was probably the most flexible about our independence of the conferences we could choose from.
I like that we'll both be playing other teams but wish it was done some other way. But if we were to play UM, Texas or Georgia (both future meetings we have scheduled), FSU, USC, Stanford, Clemson, VaTech etc...in one year, we'd be asking for a few losses no matter how good we might be. That's a brutal schedule and would be completely stupid on our part. I'm all for a tough schedule but there's a limit if you want to win titles.
I don't believe either team is or would be "chickening out". But our season hasnt been ruined so to speak. I'd argue that even after the losses (which were fair and square) we've went on to have a better overall season with the exception of 2011. I have nothing against the UM football team or university but I do disagree with the "chicken" thought process. Just look at our schedule and future schedules...that's not a schedule made by chickens lol. I actually kind of respect UM for being a pretty clean program. I'm not here to hate on you guys.
I'll go on record as sad to see the series go. As an ND fan in Michigan it's the game I look forward to the most every year. But if I'm remembering right, you guys said you wouldn't be renewing the ND contract after it was up to seek "other out of conference options" or something like that. And that was years before we exercised the 3 year opt out.
But like I said, I wish the series would continue. Kinda bummed ND decided to expedite the process but I'm sure the rivalry will continue at some point in the not too distant future. We've taken many breaks before in this series only for it to resume. It wont be nonexistant for too long. Too much history and tradition.
And I, personally, think that if we were going to chicken out against anyone we'd opt not to play Stanford haha...they've been beating our ass lately unlike you guys who usually win a tight game the last 5 or so years. But they're in Cali where we want to maintain our recruiting footprint...which makes sense to me. But at the same time I get why you guys say we're "chickening out"...we'd prolly be saying the same thing if the sides were reversed.
My understanding is that they reported it to the NCAA prior to the press conference...the day before if memory serves me right. I believe the reason for the press conference was because someone from the NCAA was going to leak, or had leaked, the info... so ND got ahead of it publicly with the press conference.
I appreciate your info as well. That sounds about like what I've heard. MOST faculty are aware that football is a big deal and want the team to succeed and see the benefits that a successful football team can bring to the university both athletically and academically but there are SOME who couldn't care less about the football team and would rather have it done away with. I have no source for my info like you do tho...just things I've heard from people who supposedly do have sources inside ND or who work there themselves.
That makes sense to me. Thanks for the explanation. I personally don't think ND will put athletics ahead of academics (Golson last year) but they had to report it somewhere and the NCAA is the most logical place to report it to, right? If they didnt everyone would be saying ND was trying to cover this up or something.
I've heard things about a lot of people in ND's honor committee and positions of discipline who could care less about the football team or any athletics and basically want ND to be more like the Ivy League schools where athletics are of no impotance. That sucks cuz I'm an ND football fan first and foremost but I also want us to win the right way and with people like that in those positions it seems like we will do things the right way. The STUDENT-athlete way. I don't expect ND to lose sight of the student aspect anytime soon. They've proven this by suspending their (aguably) most valuable athletes in 2 sports in the same year (Golson in football and Jerian Grant in Bball).
I agree that that is most likely why ND brought it to light in the press conference. But they had already reported the investigation to the NCAA prior to the press conference. That's all they could really do...what more should they have done? The NCAA is the governing body if I'm not mistaken and has the power to do any sort of investigation they want after ND is finished if they so choose. I could be wrong on that...I'm no lawyer. But that's my understanding.
I also agree that the NCAA has proven to be inept when dealing with this sort of thing. UNC basically had a program set up by high ups in the university to take the "student" out of student-athlete. It wasn't a case of a few players cheating (which I can almost guarantee happens everywhere) like at ND, it was a whole different thing UNC had set up and they got off VERY lightly on the punishment side of things from the NCAA in my opinion. They (the NCAA) lost A LOT of credibility overall in their handling of that situation in my eyes.
I respect those of you saying ND is rigorous and unlikely to let a contributing player off the hook just because he is a "contributer". Every guy in this investigation was a contributor. Moore is the only one who wasn't a starter but even he could be used meaningfully against power run teams on our schedule like UM, Stanford, etc. I forgot about Hardy as well who was the late addition and is a back up safety.
I doubt ND would have brought this to the NCAA's attention if they didnt plan on doing a proper and thorough investigation. You don't see many schools holding out KEY players (Golson all of last year) for academic issues. Maybe a slap on the wrist punishment or a game or two suspension. To me this speaks volumes about ND's willingness to be a respected academic institution over a powerhouse athletic/football program. It doesn't help us win more games, that's for sure.
The investigation was held completely seperate from anything dealing with athletics. Only academics were taken into account and even coach Kelly had no idea of the investigation until the day before it was announced. It has since concluded last week and the meetings to determine the athletes eligibility are SUPPOSEDLY going to happen this week sometime.
Everything is pretty much speculation at this point tho and no one knows for sure who (if anyone) will be cleared, suspended, expelled, etc.
Oh and to answer any questions about the players availability while suspended during the investigation...I think (could be wrong) they were just suspended from team activities like practice. They had access to the facilities and training table and that sort of thing so they should have been able to stay in shape if they wanted to. I'm most unsure of what they were and werent allowed to do tho...something I'll have to look in to more.
Hopefully if you guys have any other questions I can help as much as I possible. But I'm no "insider" or anything like that. Just follow all things ND so maybe I can answer some questions. Feel free to ask away or critique me. I'm pretty easy going so I wont get worked up if you wanna make fun of Manti or something haha.
First time poster here. I'll get it out of the way now...I'm an ND fan living in Michigan with tons of friends who are Michigan fans so I know a fair amount about your team. Not great knowledge but good enough to keep some decent discussion I hope.
I'm thinking this will be another close game in the series (go figure) and will be pretty high scoring. Our offense is a whole different animal with a QB like Golson at the helm. It's a typical Brian Kelly offense that he just couldn't run with Rees. Our defense will be going through some growing pains since we are doing a 180 in terms of scheme going from a bend but dont break, conservative 3-4 base to an attacking, aggressive, blitzing 4-3 base. We will get burned with the big plays early in the season until all the guys can adjust to the new system. And you guys have the talent and playmakers to burn us for our mistakes in adjusting to the new scheme.
I think Nuss is just what you guys needed on offense to get things turned around there. And Funchess is a beast who we will have to find some sort of answer for. If we had a full strength Russell (one of the suspended players) I'd say he could at least limit Funchess somewhat but since he hasnt been practicing for over 2 weeks I'm not sure of the difference he'll make.
I'm looking forward to a good game this Saturday though. Should be fun to watch.