O Fo Sho

June 10th, 2015 at 11:17 AM ^

Swenson, Onwenu, Davis and Bredeson will be the perfect match to nullify that State DLine class.  Hopfully we can land Davis and Bredeson.

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123blue

June 10th, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^

It couldn't happen any other way.  Hell, MSU's basketball rise was only possible due to the University's willful neglect of the program following the Fab5.  You hire Brian Ellerbe; your rivals will pounce.  Dantonio needed both RR and Hoke to suck most terribly in order to build his program.

On the flip side, we don't need a rival to be weak in order to grow strong again.  Beilein did it with bball and Harbaugh will do it with football.

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1974

June 10th, 2015 at 1:22 PM ^

Dantonio's rise has been somewhat independent of Michigan's stretch of mediocrity. He has twice (at least) turned no-name (Bell, Dennard) recruits into high NFL draft picks. Neither guy had a UMich offer. Of course Michigan's stumbles have helped, but I don't think it's reasonable to argue that Sparty would still be mediocre if, say, Lloyd Carr had never retired. I may as well add that I find the Izzo argument largely unconvincing, too. I'm referring to the one that says all seven of his Final Fours wouldn't have been possible without the Explorer rollover accident. Right -- he's just a lucky scrub.

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123blue

June 10th, 2015 at 5:01 PM ^

You kinda contradict yourself with that Carr stuff, but anyway...

Of course Dantonio benefitted immensely from Michigan's trouble.  MSU is never a program that could recover from losses to Michigan.  Dantonio has done a good job with lesser-known players, and he's had plenty of high star players as well.  He was able to avoid a bunch of games against OSU and won games against Michigan that he would have likely lost if Michigan were typical Michigan.  Zero chance MSU football is where it is without the RR and Hoke years.  Zero.

And no one said Izzo was a lucky scrub (though he is a lucky lil leprechaun).  He's a good coach; one who was able to dominate his main rival because the main rival (in essence) wasn't even trying.  Really think he would have recruited as well as he did but for Michigan being busted (for the same stuff that was happening at State)?  Really think he would have recruited so well if Michigan had a real coach and not Ellerbe?  He was indeed very lucky.  Not a scrub, but he owes so, so much to Ellerbe.

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1974

June 10th, 2015 at 5:23 PM ^

If you're referring to the end of the Carr years, yes, I can see the contradiction. Elsewhere: "... he's had plenty of high star players as well." No, he hasn't. Look at his class rankings relative to Michigan's. I mentioned Dennard and Bell. Look, also, at the two 3-star QBs. One was a 4th-round pick and the other (at least according to the self-appointed draft experts) is projected to go early next year. The list goes on and on ... Calhoun was a 3-star, too. Players like Gholson and Thomas have, until recently, been the exception rather than anything close to a rule. "He was able to avoid a bunch of games against OSU and won games against Michigan that he would have likely lost if Michigan were typical Michigan." Agreed -- he has had good schedule luck. "Zero chance MSU football is where it is without the RR and Hoke years. Zero." Zero? :) You're taking an extreme position there. They've won two straight relatively high-profile bowl games. Am I to understand that's entirely because of Michigan's run of mediocrity? There's no reason that the teams can't be good at the same time. Several of Sparty's important players the last few years didn't even have UMich offers. They've developed underrated talent as well as anyone in the country. "Really think he (Izzo) would have recruited as well as he did but for Michigan being busted (for the same stuff that was happening at State)?" Not as well, but diminished by how much? Which players from his recent Final Fours go to UMich instead of MSU? Dawson? Trice? Valentine? Going back to 2009 and 2010, I'll give you Draymond Green. Keep in mind that MSU once successfully recruited players like Magic Johnson and Steve Smith. It's not like there wasn't a shred of tradition there.

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Mr Miggle

June 10th, 2015 at 6:14 PM ^

at our expense. The point isn't which of his recent players would have gone to Michigan instead. It's the extent that he has been able to bring in high profile recruits that might have gone anywhere else.

Izzo's a good coach and would have found some success. But our implosion helped him establish their program at a higher level.

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Double-D

June 10th, 2015 at 9:48 PM ^

Until we imploded. Mateen built his program and he was coming to Michign until he got into Traylors roll-over. It's safe to say his program never achieves what it has without Michigan's mistakes. Same with Dantonio. He is a good coach that has pulled several key players based on our record and RRs inept in-State recruiting. Dantonio would be above average but not much more without our failuers We provided opportunity. They were good enough to take it.

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alum96

June 10th, 2015 at 12:25 PM ^

Not a football scouting expert like Magnus but damn that Robertson kid looks exciting (and scary) for someone so new to football - he was basically a no offer TE 12 months ago at this time.  King and Robertson (and Kareem) are already all listed at 250-260 lbs which is pretty amazing for HS DEs.  Guys we took last year like Johnson and Jones were 220-230 DEs. 

Eveyone is sleeping on the other DT they got Monday because he was "only" ranked in the 400s (and Jones committed the same day) but apparently he too was a star peformer at the Chicago camp last week.

It feels like a constant complaint but we really need impact players on the DE - Clark was solid and yes a 2nd round draft choice but I never got a Hall or Graham type feel from him in terms of impact.  This must be the most difficult position in football to recruit - or at least at our school.

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ghostofhoke

June 10th, 2015 at 11:24 AM ^

This stuff is such garbage. 7-on-7 drills, no contact line drills and writing about a 17 yr old kid being a disappointment or hurting their rankings by traveling around for summer camps? Such bullshit. Too many publications with absolutely nothing to do with themselves. This stuff has nothing to do with playing actual games and performing on the field. If I had to stop drinking beer and going to the beach in my high school summers I'm pretty sure I'd have struggled too. This has gotten way out of control.



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ghostofhoke

June 10th, 2015 at 11:53 AM ^

That's true but I don't really care how anyone is "trending" evaluation of one camp isn't a "trend". If someone had a string of bad performances over the summer than fine or if they battled another peer and got beat consistently when they used to dominate them than that is noteworthy. I don't mean to make a point that these camps aren't important, they are a great opportunity for coaches to evaluate talent. But it's the coaches that I care to hear from, not hear services who have ulterior motives. If the "trends" mattered, the coaches would base their decisions on them, but they don't. Therefore this stuff is just garbage for us to ingest during slow times (which obviously we agree on)



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ghostofhoke

June 10th, 2015 at 12:41 PM ^

I think the only thing you can evaluate is if they pass the "eye" test. Do they check the boxes? Is the technique there? Can WR run routes, do CBs have good hips, speed, footwork. Those things don't tell the whole story. I'd doesn't tell you if a CB like to tackle, or can tackle--nor does that say anything for anyone on the defensive side of the ball unfortunately. Does a RB break tackles or go down on first impact? Are they fumble prone? Can they catch in pads? No answers. Can a WR make a catch in traffic or afraid to get hit? Can they block? No idea. Those are the the things that make a player great. Taking contact out of the equation changes absolutely everything about the way a kid performs, there's no argument there. Hence, these things are useless. Is the kid a good athlete when it comes to football related skills and drills? That's about all these camps answer.



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