OT - Do I have to disclose this to be admitted to the bar?

Submitted by Blue_Bull_Run on
For any lawyers out there: I was accused of copying on a quiz in high school. As a result, I served a detention. Is that the type of thing that will require disclosure for the bar application, and, more importantly, how serious of an infraction is that? Enough to jeopardize my admission?

jrt336

January 31st, 2010 at 8:52 PM ^

I can't believe that if you didn't put it down, and they somehow found out you cheated on a 10 point quiz in high school, that they would look down on that. But just put it down. At least they'll think you're a real honest guy.

Starko

January 31st, 2010 at 9:07 PM ^

You will be fine either way. If you put it down, they won't care. If you don't put it down, they won't know. If you don't put it down and they find out, they still won't care because they would understand that it's so minor that you would have never thought you had to report it.

Clarence Beeks

January 31st, 2010 at 9:15 PM ^

Really, the most important question in response to your question (that some have addressed here sort of) is what the actual question on the application asks. This is a tough question to answer in the abstract (i.e. without knowing exactly what the question asks). But with that said, just like almost everyone here has said, the best approach is always to err on the side of disclosure.

03 Blue 07

January 31st, 2010 at 9:14 PM ^

Put it down. In Illinois, they will ask about academic dishonesty. Be honest about it. At the worst, you'll probably have to have an interview. I had to have an interview, actually, and it was basically me being open and honest and admitting all past missteps. At the end of it (like 30 minutes) he picked up the phone, called the Illinois Board of Admissions to the Bar, and confirmed that I was "fit." I was sworn in at the ceremony like a week later. Point is, err on side of disclosure, and don't worry. Be honest and contrite, and you'll be fine.

bronxblue

February 1st, 2010 at 12:10 AM ^

In MI it is before (unless it has changed in the past few years), but here in NY you pass C&F after the bar exam. I'm completing that application now, and I basically went over my MI bar app and just disclosed whatever I put there. As a general rule, disclose everything. While from a practical standpoint the bar might not look into your high school record, it never hurts to put the info in. When I was in law school, kids with drunk driving tickets and hospitalization for drugs were still admitted, so they are pretty flexible with past transgressions. But if you are not up-front with them, that shows dishonesty and that, not surprisingly, is the type of character flaw that can keep you from practicing. Good luck!

Cock D

January 31st, 2010 at 9:19 PM ^

As said many times above, people make the bar with much more serious indiscretions than High School plagarism; I doubt any examiners would hold it against you. HOWEVER, if you don't disclose and they pick up on it, you will get the Nth degree asking why you didn't disclose. So - disclose it. (I am sooooo not jealous of you doing that app - it's been 5 years since I did mine....)

CRex

January 31st, 2010 at 9:34 PM ^

Dude, cheating on a 10 point quiz? Seriousily talk about a poor expected utility jduegement there. Go big or go home (just kidding). Might as well disclose it and show remorse. If you have any political aspirations the other side is going to dirt digging someday and will try to blow it up. Speaking as a PoliSci major, if I was trying to smear you I'd go after you for "Failure to disclose academic dishonesty on your bar exam"* and then try to get everyone whipped into a lynch mob before you could clarify it was just a 10 point quiz. So come clean and bury it just to be sure. *It's lame, but if you had no other skeletons in your closest and we needed some kind of attack ad...

Tim Waymen

January 31st, 2010 at 10:04 PM ^

I would say disclose. The whole thing about political aspirations--I don't recall a candidate's HS record being brought to light. Regardless, if you haven't cheated since, then I would imagine it shows that you learned your lesson and that it was just a HS slip-up, especially since you admitted to it. Besides, I'm sure that's bubkis compared to some of the other shit other people up for bar admission have pulled (or will pull!).

Kinda Blue

February 1st, 2010 at 12:09 AM ^

Odds are no question will call for it. Many states only ask about felonies when it comes to disclosing crimes. Some may not ask a question that relates to high school cheating. Whatever the question calls for, disclose completely. But don't feel compelled to disclose that which the state does not ask.

Clarence Beeks

February 1st, 2010 at 2:07 AM ^

"But don't feel compelled to disclose that which the state does not ask." I agree with this quoted statement, but not the prior part of your post, except the part about erring on the side of disclosure. Most every state that I'm aware of requires information about academic dishonesty and they don't typically specify at which level of education it occurred.

BlueTimesTwo

February 1st, 2010 at 11:31 AM ^

Disclosure would probably be your best bet. The odds are pretty good that it would be dismissed as a minor infraction from a long time ago, and it might be seen as a positive that you were up front about it. Worst case someone might call and ask about it, and you can be ready with the "after-school special" answer about how you learned your lesson when you realized that it was about the principle, not the 10 point quiz, blah, blah, blah. If you have nothing major to disclose since that point, you are in good shape. These are the hoops you have to jump through to join the cartel. Welcome to the profession.

NYWolverine

February 1st, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^

From someone who was admitted fairly recently, the opportunity to disclose evidences of prior bad conduct shouldn't be taken lightly, but it also shouldn't strain your good sense of what ought to count towards required disclosure. Those who will admit you need to know you're not going to be an "evil attorney" under suspicion and constant accusation of unethical practice (i.e., commingling funds, stealing from clients, committing perjury, etc.). They read thousands of applications for admission. Redflags are felony indictments, misdemeanor and felony convictions, long records of poor credit decisions that lead to litigation, and/or a history of fraudulent conduct or activity. Academic dishonesty would fall into the tent of the latter, but I suspect only if the charges lead to actual recorded administrative penalties. IMHO, a detention served in HS should stay in HS. Don't lose sleep over it.

Blue_Bull_Run

February 1st, 2010 at 12:33 PM ^

Thanks for your advice and guidance. I informally consulted with an attorney today, who agreed with most of you: Disclosure is probably required, but it's likely to be viewed as a minor incident (especially given that it was high school, with no additional incidents). So yeah, I've submitted the application with a brief note about my detention. Knocking on wood that the bar examiners sees it the same way MGoBlog does!