OT: Detroit Tigers roster move ideas thread
Okay, so the Tigers sit in first place right now. However, they appear to be one of the weakest first place teams and have the problems of last place teams. So here's the question. What do we need to add to this roster to help make it a more serious contender? First things first. I think the most pressing need is for at least one more starting pitcher. Zach Miner, IMO, should be moved to the rotation. One more starter is needed after him. Ideas? We could probably also use a lefty stick in the lineup. I'd love Adrian Gonzalez, but that feels like a pipe-dream...where would we get the prospects to get him? Finally, bullpen help. This might actually be the area of least need. I know they're frustrating as a group, but Rodney, Zoom, Perry, Seay and even Lyon are decent options. One more decent arm would help. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on what the Tigers should do before the deadline.
but we are broke. We won't be buyers when we have no money and we can't shake it up if we are in first. This is a precarious position indeed. We should have sold high on Maggs two years ago. Buying bullpen help is silly because it is like trying to catch lightening in a bottle to use a cliche.
we will be buyers, actually. We can't really be "broke" when there is no salary cap.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090616/COL08/906160312/1050/rss15
If Maggs reaches his incentives this year and gets his payday (which he will unless we bench him which would really piss him off) we will be broke. We aren't the Yankees or the Sox. Don't forget the insane contract D-Train has and I believe we are still paying Sheff. We have an inflated payroll and we will not be able to sustain it. I just hope we don't sell Cabrera to pay the silly and foolish contracts we have been handing out lately.
So, when Ilitch said this in today's paper:
"We're going to do whatever we've got to do," Ilitch said. "We're three games in first. What are we going to do? There are a lot of things that we can do. We're going to try to improve one way or the other."
...you think he was lying?
Jesus Christ, you have to be able to get ruid of guys as well. WHo is going to take on our shitty contracts? You think someone is going to take on the D-Train or Thames or hell even the Maggs contract? It isn't happening. We are strapped by the contracts and it sucks.
So in other words, you think Ilitch was lying when he gave that answer?
It's DonSmell, not D-Train.
Thank you.
/nosarcasm!
We need to get rid of Robertson. Put Willis on the DL, and put Miner in the rotation. Send Armando Galarraga to Toledo and bring up Lucas French. Get rid of Ordonez, and get a bat.
adam dunn or corey hart. And Fatboy Penny from the bosox but i doubt any of this will happen. Changes will be made but i dont know what we will be able to pull off with our limited farm system and slumping big-money players
Wonder if there'll be a team at the trade deadline that would take Marcus Thames for a #4 starter? We never seem to be able to find room for him in the lineup and there's plenty of bats bouncing back and forth from Toledo. Not much Thames does that Clete Thomas can't.
Farm system is pretty thin on big named prospects and all of the big club's trade chips are declining veterans. I could see a Joyce-Jackson type deal where maybe we give up Larish or Clete for a veteran reliever. I can't see anyone taking on Thames, or our pupu platter of washed up pitchers.
For starters, I'd take a look at Arizona's (Doug?) Davis--he's a lefty with pretty dependable numbers and would be a relatively cheap upgrade over Robertson/Willis. LAD is running away with things and I can see Arizona having a sale.
Does anyone remember that deal for Magglio a year or two ago with LA? I think the Tigers were gonna get Matt Kemp as the major piece coming back...fuck that would be awesome right now.
The talk is about halladay, for porcello, perry, and ramirez...any feelings on that?
I'm not so sure how I feel about that trade. Porcello appears to have a bright future ahead of him. I guess I just don't like selling the future to gamble for right now. I know Porello may never reach Halladay's level but how many years do you think we could get out of Halladay if we did trade for him?
I guess maybe we could use him to make a run this year, then trade him at the deadline next year for prospects (he won't sign w/ Det as FA)--would we get anything like Porcello/Perry (our future #2 and closer) in return?
There is 0 chance Dombrowski trades Porcello. It's completely asinine.
I don't see what's asinine about it, he traded 2 prospects equivalent to porcello for miggy, maybin and miller where both top 15 guys. You are trading him for someone who, in all likelihood, is better than he will ever be. Perry is expendable because the tigers have relief pitching in spades in the minors. The objective is to win a title, and halladay gives you the best chance to do that. You can replenish ur farm easily, especially with an owner willing to pay overslot for the big name picks, and a scout with a record like dave chadd...you can find arms for the future, you can't find many roy halladays.
Porcello is like 7-3 this year, is cost controlled for 3(4?) years, and is only 20. Halladay is much older, throws 130 pitches a game, and costs a fuckton more. No, fucking, way they trade Porcello for Halladay.
If Halladay was 2-3 years younger, I would probably do it. But he's 32. That's the only thing stopping me from supporting that idea. I'd call it a no.
But halladay is the best pitcher in the game, show zero sign of slowdown or breakdown, and won't fade near the end of the season like I GUARUNTEE porcello will. Porcello might some day be as good as halladay, or he could just as easily burn out do to workload or injury. Ill pay more for the sure thing, and deal with the chance the pieces I trade do live up to expectations.
Let me jump in here. While it may not be asinine I wouldn't do it because Halladay is 32, Perry is 22 and Porcello is 21, Porcello's future is bright and so is his present.
turned in December.
Yeah I caught that, so I will just have to say I always round up! 6 months more worth of reasons not to trade him
What if Porcello were the centerpiece of a package of players that would bring us Roy Halladay in a trade? I'd do it in a second.
Never say never.....
I would do it. Take the proven over the possible. Think Pavano, Burnett, A. Miller... the list goes on. Porcello probably will be a good major league pitcher, but he will fade this year, have a second year slump after getting so many more innings this year, and maybe be ready in '11. I think Perry is replacable with what they have on the farm.
In general, I say take known over potential, especially in baseball. Everyone gets upset about the Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz deal, but in the end, they won the pennant in '87 and that was the point. They don't get that done without Alexander. Would they really have been any better in the '90s with John Smoltz? Maybe a few third and fourth place finishes instead of fourth and fifths. Big deal.
Revisionist history, The Tigers won the Division in 87 not the Pennant
and I didn't even catch that.
Yeah, that was when the 85-win Twins got homefield advantage over the 98-win Tigers, because of the "tradition" of rotating between the East and West divisions. That rule was idiotic.
Juan Berenguer
Honest mistake, not revisionist. Main point still sticks, they came back and beat out Toronto and they wouldn't have without Alexander. I still believe winning playoff series in MLB is half better team, half luck. Damn Twins...
I wouldn't make this particular trade for the simple fact that it doesn't actually resolve the issue of the Tigers not having enough quality starters. You make this trade and okay, you've got a better top 3 than before, but the issue of the #4 and #5 starters is still up in the air.
If possible, the Tigers should try to exchange a bat (or bats) for a SP. Maybe you can't get a Halladay, but there might be that #4 or #5 guy out there.
Theres also 0 chance Perry is the future closer, he doesn't look like he has the mentality or composure.
He is a rook, give him a chance will ya. He does have the arm to be a closer. Rodney and Lyon have been closers so don't close the book yet.
Based on the first 2 1/2 months of his rookie season? After he pitched only 13 2/3 innings in the minors before this? You're seriously ready to say that about a 2 year old with that little of experience? Even though he throws upper 90's and has a slider...wow. Thanks, scout.
I think it's impossible to say that Perry doesn't have the mentality of composure to close games in the future. The guy is 22 and so far has played in more major league games (24) than minor league games (14) in his career.
Give him some time to learn to locate his pitches and, you know, grow up.
I'll take back the zero chance, but I still don't think he's a closer-to-be. I think part of the reason I said that is because I still have hope for Zumaya being the closer. When Zumaya was dealing back in '06, you could just tell he has what it takes to be a closer. And wasn't Zoom Zoom 20 or 21 back then? I don't get that same feeling when I watch Perry pitch.
The bats are definitely slumping right now but I think they'll come around. I think they really need to focus on solidifying their 4 and 5 starter spots. Willis is a train-wreck, and Galarraga's string of luck is over. Pedro Martinez is still available...
would be too much of an upgrade at this point. He seems pretty washed up.
He was decent in the WBC, but I still have my doubts as well. It wouldn't be a bad experiment since he would probably be a cheap addition and we wouldn't have trade any youngsters. I'm sure he would sell some extra tickets at Comerica and probably wouldn't walk 8 batters in 3.2 IP.
Pedro means you have to have bullpen guys to pitch the last 3 to 4 innings of any of his starts even if they're leading when Pedro comes out. And the Tigers bullpen still blows.
Every team in the division has severe flaws. Half of the Sox lineup is utter crap and Quentin is never going to be healthy this year even if he manages to play. The Twins have a whole bunch of #3 (charitably) to #5 starters and basically two relievers worth a damn, and several big holes in the lineup most days. The Royals are the Royals. Cleveland has one starter and the rest of their staff is dreck, and Sizemore is injured.
Doesn't really matter who wins the division, they're going to get the crap kicked out of them by the AL East champ in the first round.
The Tigers, pitching Verlander in Games 1 and 5 and Jackson in Game 2 could be a dangerous first round team to mess with. Cardinals 06 were supposed to get knocked out quick too. In a short series, anybody can win. Even a last place team.
I think they have to go for it this year with the way Verlander and Jackson are pitching. They'll never have a better first 2 guys than that. Even against the Yankees and Red Sox those two give the Tigers a great chance in a playoff series. I'd give up anyone but Porcello if I was Dombrowski, probably for a bat.
The Tigers should look hard at Matt Holiday over in Oakland. I'm sure Billy Beane will want some decent prospects, but he also knows that Holiday will be gone at the end of the year, and might want to move him toward the deadline. Other than that, I'm not sure what teams in the AL (I am not sure about the NL) will have anything to really offer Detroit. As for pitching, I would like to see them turn Robertson and/or Willis into something for the bullpen, even if it requires them splitting salary and taking on someone else's mess. This roster, as presently constructed, should win the division, but I am not sure if any team outside of the AL East will be playing for the title in October/November.
What is wrong with this offense? Leadoff triple and cannot score. Then two on with no one out and can't score. This is horrible.
And Robertson doesn't even try. 4 freakin runs.
He was due for a bad one. Dude has been sick. I'm angry that the offense can't freaking pick him up though. He's been carrying that pathetic offensive show on his back for the past month.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/detroit-tigers_21.html
That's the financial situation. A couple things to take away from this:
Mag's Option Clause
Unless he gets hurt, we will be forced to offer a $18M contract for next season. Needless to say, that is killer.
The Tigers are loaded with bad contracts, but short contracts
The following contracts end after 2010:
Bonderman at 12.5M
Willis at 12.0M
Robertson at 10.0M
Inge at 6.6M
Those top three are huge and make up for the potential of Mag's option. It'll be an expensive year in '10, but after that, there's some breathing room. Illitch has pretty much said money isn't an worry, so, yeah, let's not worry about money.
The question is what does this team need now? IMO, the answer is a bat. Also, IMO, if you can get someone like Halladay, you get him. Period. he's the best pitcher in the game! Even if he's only at the level, or near that level, for 5 years, in five years you have a completely new team, new big time prospects, etc etc.
Joe Dumars once said something like "I never look past 5 years down the road" You can't project past 5 years. Now, yeah, in some cases with superstars you get your 5-8 year contracts, but still I agree with the philosophy. Nobody can predict where Porcello is in five years. Halladay, for five years, could be dominant.
you all realize mike illitch is worth like 1.6 billion dollars, right? and he's 80? and his family is pretty much set for life?
he's not going to spend like a drunken sailor, but these contracts are not going to stop him from paying someone if he decides that's what he wants to do.