OT: Are cosmic rays really causing Toyota's woes?
Sorry for the link, it is the print portion and was the only one I can find on the topic, don't click on it if you don't want to as I summarized below.
Anyway, it looks like federal regulators Toyota's sudden acceleration problem is due to cosmic rays based on the idea it has affected airplanes and space craft before. So they may put Toyota's in front of Particle Accelorators and shower them with radiation.
Anyway, point being, this sounds absolutly ridiculous, and even more so that they still can't find the problem.
Anyone elses thoughts on the whole issue, whether about Cosmic Rays or in general?
link: http://www.freep.com/fdcp/?1268752229171
March 16th, 2010 at 11:19 AM ^
I am sure it is the cosmic rays, they also have caused the Freep and Drew in particular to be incredibly horrible.
March 16th, 2010 at 11:25 AM ^
As a laid off GM worker I am loving this.
HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE
March 16th, 2010 at 11:27 AM ^
It's toyota's drive by wire throttle technology having electronic issues.....
It's not cosmic rays.
As an engineer I'm depressed by the lack of knowledge on the subject, and how cars work in general. I've mini-ranted on toyota in another post already, don't have the energy to do it again
March 16th, 2010 at 11:28 AM ^
The metal shell of the car and the fact that the rays would shield the electronics from any electromagnetic interference from cosmic rays. For a ray to be strong enough to affect the electronic controls in a car it would also be strong enough to damage lots of other electronic items. A ray powerful enough to do that it would have knocked out so many other electronic items that a few car accidents would be the least of our worries.
March 16th, 2010 at 11:30 AM ^
If that is the problem, then you would be seeing similar issues with all cars. The only thing the radiation is going to affect would be computer systems in the car. It's probably something really simple that they haven't considered because it is too simple to actually be the problem.
March 16th, 2010 at 11:32 AM ^
I'm pretty sure it's because of the aliens shooting their cosmic ray guns at our Toyotas. I can almost hear them: "All your Toyotas are belong to us!"
March 16th, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
Here is ME
Here is me pulling Toyota's Card and saying
Bullshit
March 16th, 2010 at 11:45 AM ^
It isn't cosmic rays, its actually Gamma rays. I guess Mike Martin visited a computer chip production facility that Toyota gets their chips from, and he just fried them all.
March 16th, 2010 at 11:49 AM ^
couldn't get their drive by wire systems to work. The failure modes would keep the throttle open. I heard they were wondering how Toyota was getting theirs to work. Now we see they really didn't but bet on the fact that it wouldn't happen often enough.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:12 PM ^
In the past two decades, Toyota has pumped a lot of R&D money into making new innovative technologies. But in the face of these lawsuits based on tenuous claims, what's to say they will continue?
This whole thing is really sad, especially since the public is convinced Toyota is in the wrong even as they continue to demonstrate that most of the stories told by supposed victims have no scientific basis. If this was Ford or GM, I'd say the same thing. This is a witch hunt.
Agreed. Not that Toyota can take this route either, but the driving risk as a result of these stuck accelerators is only increased by about two percent. It has really turned into a PR blitz at this point, but what can you do? These things get out of hand fast.
http://www.cmu.edu/news/archive/2010/February/feb25_toyotarisk.shtml
March 16th, 2010 at 12:12 PM ^
The media and American auto companies are eating this shit up. Toyota isn't the most scrupulous company out there. We've known that for a while. But at the end of the day, after Toyota cleans up this mess, they'll still be putting out some of the best made cars out there.
Besides, fewer people would have the accelerator problem if they would just man up and drive stick. Accelerator acting up? Just press down on the clutch and get into neutral--no more acceleration. (/sarcasm in 2nd paragraph, even though it's probably true but it wouldn't excuse Toyota.)
March 16th, 2010 at 12:26 PM ^
Agreed on driving stick.
Still, some of the claims are just laughable. How about the run-away Prius in California which was supposedly accelerating for something like 10 minutes? Apparently the car was being driven by a Corvette enthusiast. Yet he claimed that he was afraid to shift the car into neutral because it might cause the car to lock up and flip.
Really? How could anyone who knows anything about cars even believe this. Of course, the post-mortem on the car showed no excessive brake wear even though he claimed he was braking the whole time. Oh, and the fact that brakes are almost always more effective than acceleration.
I can't say EVERY single incidence of this has ZERO validity, but its turned into a circus. I know a few Toyota master mechanics who in their 20+ years of work have never had a single complaint about this. Since the story broke, their dealership has had a couple dozen. Something smells fishy...
March 16th, 2010 at 12:15 PM ^
or high energy electrons, protons ans neutrons are just a small portion of the electromagnetic energy that continually bathes everything all the time.
The cell phone the driver uses produces far more emag energy per hour than cosmic rays. So does the electric charge built up on the car from just pushing through atmosphere (the cause of gas station fires and the shock when you get out of your car in the winter)
A properly programmed and shielded control system should filter the high frequency spikes these events create. The push of a gas pedal is so low frequency that a high frequency spike should never be seen.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:17 PM ^
The industry term for this is a "soft error". They are caused by radioactive particle strikes that upset the state of latches and flip flops in digital circuits. Companies like IBM have done a lot of research in the topic, since it's been a problem for their large datacenters. Some of the particles come from outer space, but others come from the radioactive decay of lead in the chip packaging.
There are well known techniques to reduce the sensitivity of electronics to soft errors. I was under the impression that using soft error hardened chips was a requirement for automotive applications, but that might not be the case. This could be an example of Toyota cutting corners to save a little money.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:21 PM ^
Plus , if by some chance they never manage to fix the LHC, perhaps Toyota could start using it as one heck of a sweet, underground, test-track with cosmic rays, and possibly disco lighting.
March 16th, 2010 at 12:49 PM ^
It's definitely possible, it doesn't take very high energy particle to cause transient errors in modern electronics. This is one reason why components for safety critical applications, especially aerospace or military, are more expensive than and generally lag behind their commercial counterparts.
That being said, this seems very unlikely to me. If it's a radiation issue, the culprit is more likely the material used to package the chips. A programming or mechanical problem is the safest bet.
Who is offering up this explanation, Toyota or NHTSA?
This physics degree holder finds this entire conversation hilarious and absurd.
Plus, you'd think this would have showed up in testing, if it was cosmic rays, which are around all the time. Or maybe it did and they didn't care so much.
No, kidding. I am more of a bioinorganic chemist these days. I see cosmic rays everytime on a CCD detector when I perform a Raman scattering experiment.
I work with spacecraft for NASA and this is one of the most idiotic excuses I have heard in engineering.
I make particle accelerators for a firm... this is just plain stupid. Amazing what the MSM will print and some people will believe
I worked with aliens in close encounters of the 3rd kind and this is childs play for most aliens.
Ah....Sarcasm, when used properly, is a blessing to all the happy children of the world.
You are joking right ;-)
The problem isn't that Toyota had a recall, it's the they mishandled the whole entire apology and recall and tried to play it off like it was nothing.
This is compounded by the fact that the government basically owns Toyota's biggest competitor. Not a surprise that it turned out this way.
I mean, this guy is the transportation secretary and he doesn't actually understand what speed limits are for. Oops.
March 17th, 2010 at 12:35 AM ^
...but they are creating Super Heroes...
(Gratuitous Jessica Alba shot)
(Gratuitous Jessica Alba shot)