Did anyone else hear Rick Leach this morning?
Rick Leach was on with Sam Webb this morning, and he was very uncomplimentary toward Lloyd Carr. He went so far as to say that LC has flipped a huge middle finger at the program. I would relate what he said, but I wouldn't be as accurate as I'd like. Did anyone with a better memory hear what he said?
October 15th, 2009 at 10:49 AM ^
Not true. Schilling and Boren were the only two returning O-lineman with any significant experience.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:24 AM ^
flinging out words like "significant experience." There are those who'd suggest that Alex Mitchell had "significant experience." Not capable. Not talented nor gifted. But he DID have experience...
letting rushing DE's through the right side, to the point where Mike Hart had to block that on-rushing lineman on Lord knows how many snaps, or Henne would have been meat.
Oh, and he had experience eating pizza as a training regimen...
October 15th, 2009 at 11:55 AM ^
So, Alex Mitchell wasn't the greatest OL to wear the maize and blue ... but, did you happen to catch our OL play last year? He certainly couldn't have hurt. Moreover, Boren, while a traitorous ass, would have been a great addition to the team. Keeping those two guys would have been big for last year. Also, I swear there another OL that took off. As for Mallet, he may have transferred anyways, but he was enrolled at Michigan and the incoming coach had a shot at keeping him.
All I'm saying is that for all the talk of the cupboard being bare, Lloyd didn't leave it THAT bare. If he wanted to, he could speak up and rebut all of the talk of how poor Michigan was when he left.
October 15th, 2009 at 1:10 PM ^
Yeah, there's that point, and Brian has rebutted the argument a few times, that teaching 5th year seniors (A. Mitchell and Grant D. or B. was the other 5th yr guy) would have just moved the steep learning curve to this year, instead of the morass which was 2008.
I'm still geeked to know that we're an incredibly young team...all those freshmen and sophomores learning and developing and growing (and eeeee Barwisizing).
GO BLUE!
October 15th, 2009 at 11:55 AM ^
Mallett was gone anyway, we didn't return most of our offensive line (not to mention the first pick in the draft), and the defense was not stacked or deep. The defense from 07 was horrid (and that was a year removed from having one of the best defenses in the nation). Yes, it returned a lot of starters, but those starters underperformed for the better part of 2 years. For what it's worth, the shape of the team wasn't all that great.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:52 AM ^
"We have now lost to State twice in a row, another first."
check your history books, state beat us 3 times in a row from '65-'67 (and pretty much owned us most of the 50's and 60's)
October 15th, 2009 at 12:29 PM ^
but it most certainly was the first time since Bo took over. As I mentioned:
The team went 3-9 and did not go to a bowl game for the first time since, what, 1968. We have now lost to State twice in a row, another first.
Maybe it wasn't clear to you, but the point was that Lloyd didn't get up and say well i lost to OSU the last 5 years, but i never led the team to consecutive losses vs. Sparty. . .
October 15th, 2009 at 9:48 AM ^
as long as Lloyd is receiving a paycheck, and hold an office at U-M, he should not be sitting with the enemy.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:57 AM ^
Dude, it's freakin' Iowa.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:38 PM ^
If I catch him with those goddamn Gophers though, it'll be time to pay the piper.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:46 PM ^
There are some lines that cannot be crossed, not matter how revered the man is.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:03 AM ^
If you don't like Lloyd Carr sitting in an Iowa box, fine, but let's not go crazy here.
I am very proud that Lloyd Carr represents the University of Michigan and our football team. He's not a Michigan Man? This is getting nutso.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:32 AM ^
given what's gone on the past 6-12 months, RR could obviously use some support....and since lloyd doesnt open his mouth one way or another, his actions speak much louder....therefore, what would normally be a friendly visit to an opposing stadium now easily invites questions about lloyd/RR and creates more controversy....one person here has the ability to stop the controversy but so far has chosen not to....that says a lot to me.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:36 AM ^
To say that RichRod could use some support is basically saying that he can't handle the job on his own. Especially considering Carr barely liked the media when he himself was head coach, where do you even get the idea that Carr would come out and be a cheerleader for his successor?
I doubt Carr would be the cheerleader you are hoping for even if Ron English had gotten the job. If Carr really wanted to be in the spotlight, he wouldn't have retired in the first place.
The whole "action through inaction" notion is pretty weak.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:46 AM ^
i'd agree with you....however, there has been an obvious and unfair campaign from within launched from day 1 against RR...it reeks of arrogance, elitism, and nepotism - and involves certain members of the AD, alumni, and media. IME, if lloyd truly wanted whats best for the players, and M football as a whole, he would've addressed this by now. its obviously getting out of hand.
October 15th, 2009 at 1:46 PM ^
From within where? From within the athletic department? I guess it isn't as obvious to me as it is to you.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:58 AM ^
Iowa was showing class by inviting Carr to watch the game much like when Barry Alvarez was invited to watch the UW game on our sidelines.
October 15th, 2009 at 2:18 PM ^
Carr has devoted his life to Michigan. He is as much or more of a "Michigan man" than Leach or anyone else here.
Leach spouting off on the radio, regardless of good intentions, just makes everyone involved look like a fool.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:16 AM ^
I love how Rick Leach continues to make his voice heard and keeps standing up for Michigan. Time and time again he keeps going public and defending RR.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:44 AM ^
I'm glad that Leach is sticking up for the program; I just wish the program wasn't under attack to begin with.
This whole "airing of dirty laundry in the press" is bush league. Never in my life could I have guessed -- when comparing the football and basketball programs -- that football would be the drama queen.
October 15th, 2009 at 11:59 AM ^
The first thing you think of (and even YOU have to admit this) when Leach starts yammering is, "Wow, Jagerbombs this early on a Thursday? Why didn't I think of that! Thanks, Rick you're my hero!"
October 15th, 2009 at 12:39 PM ^
This was kind of funny. I chuckled. +1
October 15th, 2009 at 4:26 PM ^
And, though I disagree heartily with Shock most of the time, it's really lame to neg a post as innocuous as this one.
Rick Leach is fun to have around for the most part, because he does love the shit out of the football team. But if you think he is a better representative of the university or a more admirable person than Lloyd, you've got an odd perspective.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:17 AM ^
but I think he's pretty far out on a limb wrt alleging Carr is sabotaging RR. I know one other player who was a teammate of Leach's, and he more or less feels the same way as Rick does. I just don't believe it myself. I also don't think that even if Carr was sitting in an Iowa box that it means he's somehow giving the finger to Michigan, although I do think it's odd that he would do so.
At the time of the coaching search there were some Bo-era players who came out and made some extremely critical comments about Carr in public, so it's no secret that there's somewhat of a split among the player alumni. It's incredibly unfortunate from the perspective of the overall program, A house divided, etc etc. I don't think Leach should air this stuff in public, but from his standpoint he's defending the program he loves against unnamed individuals who are out to undermine RR. However, I do believe that there are people within the AD who are feeding info to the Freep. One poster here a few weeks ago said that all of this was not directed so much at RR but was an underground campaign waged against Bill Martin by an Athletic Dept insider who was upset with the firing of Tommy Amaker, and RR is just collateral damage. Just another internet rumor, I'd bet.
The only way to end this is for RR and Carr to meet privately and hash things out and then issue a joint statement of mutual support. I doubt that will happen because it makes too much sense.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:26 AM ^
"but from his standpoint he's defending the program he loves against unnamed individuals who are out to undermine RR"
Leach came out and named Carr specifically, "connect the dots".
Leach is becoming a cartoon figure to me, he is doing himself and M a disservice IMHO
October 15th, 2009 at 11:39 AM ^
Man, we got some pretty rouge employees in the athletic department!!
October 15th, 2009 at 11:56 AM ^
It's the mascara employees that'll get ya.
October 15th, 2009 at 2:27 PM ^
FWIW, the story goes like this: some guy formerly in the AD by the name of Stapleton, who is black, was bitter over the firing of Amaker. Then this guy was further pissed that Ron English didn't become M's first black HC. So this guy Stapleton, with help from former assistants, has been feeding the Fr--p with damaging information. No idea if this is true, but interesting that this guy is no longer in the AD.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:20 AM ^
Leach was talking about the Freep and the clarification Rodriguez gave about the team last year having the highest GPA. Evidently RR was given "an estimate" of the highest GPA, but that was not clear at the time, leading to RR statements about the highest GPA. RR posted the GPA over the locker room, etc., and set it as a goal for the team to beat, which they did. Leach called out the haters, saying they are trying to turn this positive (beating the "goal" GPA) into a negative (since we don't know if it was actaully the highest GPA). Leach said, for someone to turn this positive into a negative, they must be gunning for RR, have it out for him, and they know who those people are. I think the haters have picked a fight that they are going to regret. I didn't get the impression that he was accusing Lloyd, but shortly after the discussion above he did make the "middle finger" comments about Lloyd being a guest of Iowa.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:22 AM ^
The bottom line on Lloyd is that he needed to go years ago. Yes the guy won a NC but with a team with that much talent who wouldn't have. He was very fortionate to stay as long as he did and ride off into the sunset with a position in the ad. Right now he needs to stay as far from the football program as possible. It's what's best for him as well the program
October 15th, 2009 at 10:23 AM ^
and was behind him 100% while he coached at UM, but I knew it was time for a change. Everyone could see that his heart just wasn't in it anymore and that the game had simply passed him by.
When UM hired RR I was really excited and couldn't wait to see what he would do with the wolverines. I'm still excited and he has given me a lot of hope with the vast improvement over the last year.
If all this about Lloyd is true, I'd be disappointed, but it all sounds like speculation to me.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:34 AM ^
We have a former player (who I like as he was the QB when I became a fan) popping off about something he thinks he heard, vis a vis Llloyd sitting with Iowa......never mind that Bo (and Canham) often sat as a guest with people from another school, which is kind what you do as an AD person......and somehow this makes him a villian full of traitorous and treachery.
What a reach.
There is nothing but conjecture that Lloyd is doing anything behind the scenese to underman Rodriguez. Talk to me when there's proof and not the internet connecting the dots. Fact is, a lot of MGoBloggers dont like Lloyd and have no problem making these connections.
You people have active imaginations, you have that going for ya.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:48 AM ^
Let me guess... your one of those people who buy Rosenburg's hatchet job because he talked to 6 annonymous kids inside and outside of the program. That's believable because he is a "journalist"? Well I have talked to annonymous sources as well. No one will go on the record. Proof in these situations is impossible which only emboldens those who want to sit back and throw stones. If you don't believe that these attacks have come from Lloyd loyalists, then who is behind them? Lloyd hasn't had to leak the info himself, it is those who think they are doing him a favor. If he was truly loyal, he would put a stop to this BS. Simplest explanation... I would like to hear yours.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:04 AM ^
Come down off the ledge, man.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:38 AM ^
Did you really just cite Occam's Razor to SUPPORT your claim? What's more likely:
a) Lifelong employee of Michigan, still intimately involved with the school to the point that he gives welcome speeches to every freshman orientation group is secretly behind a cabal of mysterious alumni donor who yearn for Rodriguez's demise, no matter what the cost.
b) Former Michigan head coach visited a former employee in the box, and, as a member of the AD (someone who, you know, needs to speak to other schools) visited and sat with members of the AD of a fellow conference member.
You seriously think "A" is most likely?
October 15th, 2009 at 10:54 AM ^
You always know how to phrase your responses in a way that I wish I could.
This is exactly what I was thinking.
October 15th, 2009 at 12:15 PM ^
You were thinking, "Ebbmdj88? Bhooly froop! Zxowblarneytits andhg the bylie whiyte wid hord sccoger!?"
October 15th, 2009 at 4:30 PM ^
between two guys.
(You're a guy, right? I mean, you're posting on a football blog and you're in IOE, so I'm just playing the odds here.)
October 15th, 2009 at 11:31 AM ^
I thought this quote from you was ironic: "Proof in these situations is impossible which only emboldens those who want to sit back and throw stones"
Keep throwing stones, dickhead.
As for accusing me of being someone who believes the Freep hatchet job from the summer and the implication that I dont like Rodriguez and his program, I will let my time here on MGoBlog stand and let everyone else decide whether or not I am a true fan or not.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:54 AM ^
I really didn't know how to respond to all of this, but that pretty much sums it up.
What is more likely?
1) Lloyd was asked to help with the coaching search after he retired. He suggested several "friends" of his and former assistants. Can you blame him? These were the people he knew and the people that would run the program similar to him. Would you do anything different? He obviously felt he was running the program the "right" way when he was there.
Bill Martin took his advice, went another way, and hired RR. RR and Lloyd have no history and very little in common when it comes to running a program. RR ended up bringing a lot of his own staff to replace the current assistants. Lloyd probably wasn't happy about this, but what can he do? Because of this Lloyd has kept his distance from RR and the current team and focused on his AD job which, among many other PR-esque tasks, requires schmoozing with other AD officials at UofM sporting events. or....
2) Lloyd is so F-ing pissed that Bill Martin hired a devil from WV that axed all of his best friends, that he would "give the finger" to the program he was a part of and helped maintain for 30+ years. To do this he is gathering his "minions" to sabotage the program and school that pay his salary. Not to mention kicking dirt on the college careers of several current players that he brought to UofM. This goes directly against what Lloyd stood for during his entire career at UofM....developing men, putting the players first, character, etc. etc.
It's an easy argument to say that Lloyd should've retired when he did, but to say that he all of the sudden turned into a spineless, vindictive, traitor is way off base and ignores everything that we thought was "right" and "special" about the man in the first place.
Get a grip people...please
October 15th, 2009 at 10:09 AM ^
I think you're right on. Lloyd was bound to make a lot of friends while he was coaching at Michigan. Let him enjoy his retirement however he chooses. He deserves it. It was time for him to go when he did, and he was able to do it on his terms. Michigan doesn't need a story like this to blow up and turn into more than it is. Nothing against Leach, but the attention needs to be given to the kids that are working hard to turn the program around.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:37 AM ^
just out of curiosity, just how much power does Carr have within the AD? I mean, he doesn't have the power anymore to ruin all the positive things the program has going right now, does he?
October 15th, 2009 at 10:40 AM ^
I still haven't gotten my fucking sandwich, asshole.
October 15th, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
But I like the anger. There's something ineffably, badassedly bitchslappy about it.
October 15th, 2009 at 4:57 PM ^
White Pony Rocks is an employee of Potbelly's who posted a rather long diary about how everyone in Ann Arbor is a rich, entitled, prick because they're on their cell-phone when he tries to get their sandwich order. He used this example to say that everyone at Michigan is unjustifiably arrogant, and will be failures for the rest of their lives.
October 15th, 2009 at 5:10 PM ^
That was a long time ago. The mystery is gone, and this becomes even funnier. Good on ya - +100 cocktails.
And WPR, be a doll: don't put so many damn onions on my Italian Night Club this time.
/Obviously, unabashedly stealing from Chitown.
October 15th, 2009 at 5:30 PM ^
I work at cosi on friday, sunday, and monday mornings. If you're gonna be assholes about it, why don't you pussies come in and let me know who you are. I'll be the one at the register.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:42 AM ^
you do not know what is going on.
It would be fairly difficult, if not impossible to find 'proof' of anything.
What is true, however, is that such a controversy (i.e. lloyd carr et al) will cause damage--deserved or undeserved.
About the only thing you can do is determine who benefits. Once you identify that, the picture tends to become a little clearer.
October 15th, 2009 at 9:54 AM ^
The Freep? Rosenburg? The disgruntled assistants who weren't good enough to get the job and are butt hurt? The African American guy (forget his name) who was pissed off because RE wasn't hired and Tommy Amaker fired?
So many options but the one thing that is definitely easy to see is that Michigan as a program suffers. Which is the most important thing to me.
October 15th, 2009 at 10:12 AM ^
Nobody on the team/staff or in the university benefits.
I don't see how Lloyd Carr benefits.
The only people who benefit from a controversy like this are UM haters.