Coaching Candidate: Mark Stoops ~ Bloodlines Strong, HC Experience Lacking; Could a Strong 6 Weeks Cause Surge?

Submitted by alum96 on

Preface

Last week we took a look at a handful of candidates, among them Doeren, Jones, Graham (compared him to Sumlin), and Mullen (whose star has risen dramatically in 2 weeks).  We also looked at how Franklin and Strong would look as candidates if this was 9 months ago.  Earlier this week we took a close look at the "Beilein like" Gary Patterson.  Let's now look at darkhorse candidate Mark Stoops.

Normal caveats apply:

  • I am not an AD nor do I have a full time staff to focus on one of of the most important decisions over the next decade.   These are superficial reports based on raw data.  If  I were an AD I'd be doing a lot of on the ground work on each of these people's backgrounds starting from their playing days on forward  to every coaching stop. 
  • Past results do not guarantee a damn thing.  But that is all we can go on.
  • These are not necessarily my top candidates (read: Jim Harbaugh) but people we could get and are interesting and not "Sumlin, Shaw, Gundy redux"
  • I believe an elite level coach gets results within 2-3 years, by results I don't mean 11-2 but improving a bad program or maintaining a good program
  • W/L record is not the be all and end all - what Gary Barnett did for Northwestern is more impressive than what a lot of coaches have done at USC or Bama or Texas over the years.  Spurrier went and won at Duke for example early in his career.  Or just see John Beilein.
  • Adjust everything for conference, level of competition, and ability to get recruits
  • I don't care about systems - a good coach will coach up players.  It's about the Jimmy and Joes not the X's and O's.

 

Next candidate.... Mark Stoops, age: 47

Summary:  Mark Stoops is currently the head coach at the University of Kentucky, which like Michigan is a basketball school.

/s

/not s (damnit)

Much like his 2 older brothers in CFB, Mark rose up the defensive ranks before landing his first HC gig.  Mark is the 4th and youngest brother in a line of Stoops hailing from Youngstown, OH.  Most famous in the family is the 2nd oldest brother, Bob Stoops who runs the excellent program at Oklahoma.  While not quite as revered as Saban and Meyer, Bob is widely considered a top 10 coach in the nation who maybe doesn't win the big one as often as his fan base would like.... but 99% other fan bases would kill for.

Bloodlines are a positive thing to have but not a guarantee of any success.  Arizona found this out with the hiring of Mark's older brother (and Bob's younger) Mike.  An 8 year stint in the desert left Mike Stoops with a 41-50 record and a lot of mediocrity.  (Mark was his DC for a long portion of this reign in the desert)  So you can't just throw a Stoops against a wall and expect them all to stick. 

But back to Mark.  He has focused on the DBs his whole career even when a DC which I like because in the modern game the DEs and DBs usually make or break your defenses.  His first major stint was DB coach for 3 years at Miami, followed by his move to Arizona for brother Mike, and then over to FSU for Jimbo Fisher before landing the Kentucky job.

Big 10 footprint?  A major asterisk here.  Much like Dan Mullen, until the Kentucky job, much of Stoops Midwest exposure was due to nothing more than being born in the area.  Which doesn't help you one bit in terms of relationships with HS coaches.  However, I am going to raise a large caveat with Stoops v Mullen.  Stoops is from Youngstown, OH which is not only a key football area of the state but not too far from neighbor PA.  (2 birds, 1 stone)  Further, Mark's oldest brother (and deceased dad) coached in the Youngstown area for decades so the Stoops name means something in this region unlike Mullen.  So that - combined with his last 2 years at Kentucky does give him some of that footprint. 

Recruiting? Kentucky's classes had ranked 60ish in the few years prior to Mark's arrivals in 2013.  But in his 2 years there Stoops has pulled down the 29th and 17th ranked classes.  That's at Kentucky fergodsakes.  Yes, he does have the conference to sell but let's repeat - this is Kentucky fergodsakes; these are better rankings than Dan Mullen has been recruiting at Miss State in year 4-5.  And keep in mind he only had 3 MONTHS to put together the 29th ranked class after Joker Phillips forgettable reign.  Now... do we ask HOW Stoops put together such classes? (I see you Hugh Freeze)  Well this is your own Pandora Box to open; I have no idea of course.  If he is doing it clean - it would be impressive.

Now to the main question - can this guy have great success as a head coach?  It's an open question and much like Doeren you wish he had 1 more full year in a Big 5 conference before making an assessment.  But frankly we don't have that time here since we have an opening in 2 months (allegedly).  We need to make a determinaton by December 2014.  2013 was a horrid year for UK football - but it was horrid in 2012 before Stoops came as well.  Early returns on 2014 are promising but certainly inconclusive.  And maybe they will remain inconclusive at the end of the year.  But as we go through the Tier chart of potential coaches: (i) Hail Mary Harbaughs (ii) Miles (iii) Patterson - Mullen - Graham types ... you might find yourself facing the fourth tier.  And of that tier - pending what happens in the next 2 months, the Wolverine nation may cast our eyes at the youngest Stoops.

Here is what Stoops faces in the weeks ahead after a beating of a baby seal this weekend:

  • @LSU (a very young team, especially offense which is not up to par with traditional LSU teams)
  • Miss State (I see you Dan Mullen - Miss State could overlook this game after a ton of SEC West clashes)
  • @Missouri (Indiana already beat them this year)
  • Georgia (Tennessee played them very evenly...and they may have lost Gurley)
  • @Tenn (see Georgia comment, and they played a pedestrian Florida team equal)
  • @Louisville (Petrino has them right where Charlie Strong left off)

Is this an easy schedule?  Hell no.  But is this as bad as it would have looked 2 years ago or 7 years ago?  No.  These are not vintage versions of Georgia, LSU or Tennessee.  Miss State is still a TBD team who will be emotionally spent by the time they visit Kentucky.  Missouri was beaten by Kentucky's half-brother Indiana.  So what does Stoops need to accomplish in the coming 2 months?  I don't have a number in stone but 3-3 in that group of games without getting blown out by more than ~14ish in any losses would be a good start.  It would mean hiring a guy who had a very sad record as a HC but whose trendlines were all going in the correct direction.  2-4, or 1-5 with a few blowouts?  Then it's much more difficult to make the case.

 

Recent (10 years) coaching background

  • 2004-2009: DC/DB at Arizona
  • 2010-2012:  DC/DB at FSU
  • 2013-2014::  HC at Kentucky

Analysis:  Not a job hopper but definitely a man who got some breaks due to his name.  Was a coach for DBs at Miami (YTM) very young, and graduated to DC at Arizona under his brother by his late 30s.  Success was gradual there but eventually a solid defense was built, leading to a switch over to FSU where he took over a bad defense left over from Bowden's last "mail it in" year and turned it around in 2 years.  That led to a promotion to one of the bottom 3 jobs in the SEC.

 

Results

Caveat for results ----> (a) nothing exists in a vacuum (b) as a coordinator you can benefit or be penalized if your HC is good or bad or average (c) injuries or graduation can change your results dramatically in any 1 year.  This is the type of stuff you'd research as an AD staff on every potential candidate.

I will break down his results at 3 time frames - DC/DB at Zona, DC/DB at FSU, HC at Kentucky.

(1) DC/DB at Arizona

After Mike Stoops spun out of Oklahoma and into his own gig at Arizona he brought younger brother Mark over to run his defense.  The defense was bad when the Stoops arrived and Mark was able to incrementally improve it step by step over time.  Nothing came overnight  however.  Here is how the defenses of Mark Stoops compared to the prior year (2003).

  W/L Tot Off Tot Def
2003     109
2004     61
2005     86
2006     49
2007     53
2008     24
2009     25

As always, I penalize Big 10/ACC defenses for playing a lot of sluggish, less than talented offenses while I give a bonus to Big 12/Pac 12 defenses for playing more sophisticated air attacks (with a lot more NFL type QBs at the helm).   So what we find with Stoops is gradual improvement over time and by year 5-6 he had a mid 20s Pac 12 defense which translates (IMO) to a mid teens Big 10 defense.  Considering the type of recruits Arizona gets that isn't bad.

 

(2) DC/DB at FSU

As Jimbo Fisher took over for Bobby Bowden, Mark Stoops was hired as DC.  Much like Lloyd Carr, Bowden probably wasn't going at 100% in his last year.  The once excellent Mickey Andrews defenses - chock full of NFL talent - disappeared in 2009.  It is a wonder to imagine that FSU could post a 100+ defense but that is what happened.   Here is how Stoops did in his 3 years versus the prior year in 2009.

  W/L Tot Off Tot Def
2009     108
2010     42
2011     4
2012     2

Frankly, this is the most encouraging part of the Mark Stoops resume.  Yes he was given a lot of prime time talent but he didn't waste it.  In 2 years the total defense ranking went from 108 to 4.  And 2012 was just as good.  With a HC you'd like to see excellence on one side of the ball and unlike the Arizona stint you can clearly see an elite defense here - again with the caveat FSU recruits top 5 almost every year.


 

(3) HC at Kentucky

I prefer to have much more data in terms of offensive / defensive statistics and major win/losses for a head coach candidate but there is not much to go on with Mark Stoops.  There is little we can analyze at Kentucky as 2013 was a horror show at 2-10 with the only wins versus 2 baby seals.  That was the same record as Joker Phillips had in his last year in 2012. Losses were constant, although a few were at least not blowouts.  That's about all the praise one can give.  Offensive and defensive rankings in 2013 were likewise horrid.

We do know what system he wants to run offensively and thats "Air Raid" with OC Neal Brown.  Brown is a baby at 34 years old who was OC at Texas Tech under Tommy Tuberville before returning to his home state to coach with Stoops.  If Stoops leaves they might just offer the HC job to Brown so who knows who the OC would be at Michigan - an important point for a defensive oriented HC.

2014 has started off better with a 4-1 record, however 2 of those wins are baby seals.  Kentucky lost a heartbreaker to a mediocre Florida in OT, beat Vanderbilt 17-7, and beat 3-3 South Carolina 45-38.  Four of the five games have been at home.  The meat of the schedule awaits, although as written above for a SEC schedule it's not impossible.

It's going to be difficult to evaluate Stoops even on these last 7 games and in a perfect world we'd have 1 more year (year 3) to analyze Stoops...but we don't have that opportunity.

 

Overall

Mark Stoops is a darkhorse candidate that may emerge if Kentucky can put in an impressive end of year ... and a lot of more prominent candidates are not interested in the Michigan job.  Of course, impressive by Kentucky standards is not the same as for most schools.  No matter how he finishes this year he'd have a losing record as a HC and very little HC experience but he has been around the block in 3 solid programs prior to Kentucky so is not a newbie on how to coach.  All the intangibles line up well - of course the main intangible (can you win big as a head coach?) is going to be mostly a mystery.  But outside of that "minor" issue the intangibles of age, recruiting prowess (if "clean"), pedigree, ability to do well on 1 side of the ball, and OH connection are all positives.  Yet you can see with his brother Mike that those things don't guarantee you anything.  But at least Mark would be recruiting a region his name has more recognition than where Mike was recruiting.

You'd be buying a trajectory as a HC more than a great history with Mark Stoops.  This of course assumes UK doesnt blow up in the coming 2 months (i.e. 1-5 or 0-6).  Stoops wouldn't be option A or B (barring a 7-0 run to end the year) but of the C class candidates - if and when it got to that - he'd be someone I'd be more interested in than many names thrown around.

Comments

A2MIKE

October 10th, 2014 at 8:33 AM ^

I like Stoops as a decent fall back guy if we strike out on either Harbaugh or Dan Mullen.  I have no interest in hiring Les Miles, feel like he is past his prime and his track record recently is very Lloyd Carrish towards the end of his career.  Don't get me wrong, I would jump at that considering what we have now, but I feel like we can do better for the long term health of the program.  On a sidenote, what does it say about Lloyd that he has essentially no coaching tree?  Stoops track record is that everywhere he has been his defenses improve, but you would need a COO type offensive coordinator. 

McConkey

October 10th, 2014 at 9:00 AM ^

This is OT, but in searching Lloyd's coaching tree, I couldn't believe what I was reading: "Recently in the NFL, all 32 head coaches could be traced back to three prominent head coaches: Bill Walsh, Bill Parcells and Marty Schottenheimer."  These guys.

McConkey

October 10th, 2014 at 8:52 AM ^

I feel like the last route we need to go is someone who is unproven as a HC. We're seeing that play out right now. If money were a concern, I would say Stoops may be the best we can get, but there are a lot of more qualified coaches that we can throw a lot of money at. That being said, if we were to hire him, I also wouldn't be surprised to see him have a lot of success.  I just don't think its the right time for him.

MI Expat NY

October 10th, 2014 at 10:37 AM ^

It is almost certain that we're going to get a guy who is "unproven" at the Michigan level. There just isn't a proven commodity outside of Jim Harbaugh (John is a question mark for the college level, in my opinion), Miles, and maybe Mullen.  I guess you could throw Todd Graham into the mix, but that's just about it, outside of an out of leftfield candidate like Gundy or Patterson.  Not landing any of those guys is a reasonable possibility.  In fact, it's often the norm for big coaching hires.  It's rare for a proven commodity to fall into a school's lap (Urban at OSU, RichRod here (sigh)) or be ready at the right time (Strong at UT).  Almost every other coaching hire is an unproven commodity (Hoke here (sigh again)) or someone there are question marks about (RichRod at Zona, Muschamp at Florida).  

Aside from those few proven commodities which we may not get, everyone else we could hire is "unproven."  They're either guys with some success at a non-P5 school or a coordinator.  Stoops is more like a coordinator but we have a hint (if he goess 3-3 or better) that he can translate that to a head coaching job.  He's probably a better option than any of the coordinators we have mentioned and probably as good of an option as Jim McElwain.  If Stoops manages to go 3-3 down the stretch, with his DC coordinator success and recruiting success at UK, which by the way has reached unomfortably into Ohio, I think he'd be the guy I want.  

McConkey

October 10th, 2014 at 10:54 AM ^

You're point is well taken and I compeletely agree that I don't think we have a shot at either Harbaughs or Miles. I think Dan Mullen may even be a hard get at this point. I guess what I meant to say was that I rather get an unproven coordinator from the NFL rather than an unproven coordinator from the college ranks. And in the end, I think what makes Stoops attractive enough is his last name. I'm not sure if he wans't a Stoops, we would be giving him as serious of consideration.

MI Expat NY

October 10th, 2014 at 11:20 AM ^

Out of curiosity, why?  I would much prefer the opposite.  At least with a college coordinator you get a guy who is used to recruiting and a guy who you know understands how to coach in college.  Bill O'Brien worked out at PSU, but Charlie Weis was a disaster at ND once he was forced to actually develop underclassmen talent.  I don't even think you can say that NFL coordinators are better x's and o's coaches as almost all innovation trickles up to the NFL, not down through college.  At least on the offensive side, not as true on the defensive side.  

That may be somewhat true on the Stoops name thing, and I thought the OP addressed that.  But he has success to back it up and there is some worth in a name.  He knows what is brother has done, he knows how he's done it, and being a Stoops should help in recruiting where a name does matter.  And, if a guy goes 8-4 at UK in his second season with a record of great success as a coordinator, he's going to be a hot name no matter his last name.  

McConkey

October 10th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^

I don't man, I guess it obviously depends where in college you're pulling the coordinator from. What you say is true though about NFL coordinators and college success.  Again, I wasn't clear enough above, but ideally it would be an NFL coordinator that has also been a college coordinator.  NFLers always appeal to me from a Xs and Os standpoint becuase the NFL is so much more competitive (unless you're talking SEC lately). There are less jobs, more demand for success, so someone that has been a coordinator at the NFL level for a while should, conceivably, be really good at the Xs and Os things. Do those guys exist? Like I said, I wouldn't be suprised if Stoops turned into an awesome coach, either at Michigan or elsewhere, it just woudn't give me warm fuzzies if we were to hire him. But Michigan football hasn't given me those for a while.  I'll stop before I get too sadz.

alum96

October 10th, 2014 at 1:46 PM ^

If you have an apples to apples comparison between an NFL and college coordinator I'd always go with the college guy.  You are getting the same unknowns with either and the NFL guy would always be a candidate to leave for the NFL if he has any success.  See O'Brian at PSU.  If Weiss had ever done great he would have been seen as a NFL HC candidate. etc.

Guys like Stoops have zero NFL exposure so if he does well you assume he is going to stick around the NCAA scene unless he is one of those high octane type As like Chip Kelly, Harbaugh, Saban who want to get to the league. 

But to your larger point judging any coordinator is a major unknown - you never know how much of his success is due to the HC until you split them apart.  And the HC position comes with a lot of extra responsibility that even a good "coach" has to deal with - sometimes great coaches are best left as coordinators as those responsibilities don't fit their persona.

Other than his older brother I cannot think of too many guys who got their first stint as a HC at a major college that they were not already working at i.e. guys like Shaw and Gundy were promoted from coordinator positions at teams they already were working at.  Maybe I am forgetting some but is quite rare to go from coordinator at school A to HC at top tier school B (say a top 15 type team).

 

MI Expat NY

October 10th, 2014 at 2:10 PM ^

Muschamp at Florida.  Richt at Georgia.  Does Jimbo Fisher count?  He was brought in as OC/Coach-in-waiting.  Dana Holgorsen at WVU (not top-15 historically, but recent success).  Bo Pelini at Nebraska.  Not a ton, but top-15 jobs don't open all that often either.  

I've said this before, absent a guy that is a proven commodity at a big time school, your Urban Meyer, Steve Spurrier, Nick Saban, every hire is a risk.  There's no right answer.  All you can ask for is that the school hire a guy with a great resume, unlike what we did with Hoke, and give that guy full support, unlike what we did with RichRod.  It's obviously no guarantee, but a place like Michigan should be able to win with the next guy if we do both of those things.  Hopefully we've learned our lesson.  

I do appreciate your point about the coordinator/HC responsibilities.  That's why, if I'm judging a coordinator, I want to see something that shows the success is theirs.  With Stoops, you have the fact that his defenses have done well in both Arizona and Florida St., the latter under an offensive head coach.  With Tom Herman it's a little more of a gamble because he's under Meyer, but he had success before and was brought in without any previuos ties to Meyer.  Other guys, such as Narduzzi, Kirby Smart, Mark Helfrich/Scott Frost, etc. have only seen success under a single coach focused on the same side of the ball.  Those guys are big risks.  

alum96

October 10th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^

Yes Muschamp, Bo P, and Richt are good examples (Richt has been there so long I forgot where he came from).  Fisher was there for 3 years under Bowden so I'd consider him more like Shaw than the other guys.

And yes I agree that if you are going to go the guy with a lot of coordinator experience go with the guy who is the OPPOSITE of the head coach.  So of Mullen, Herman or Strong I'd focus on Strong because he focuses on what Meyer does not.  Everyone says Mullen developed Alex Smith or Tebow / Leak but that could have been/most likely was Meyer - see what he did with Barrett already.  Of course now people say that is Herman.  It reminds me of the 20 coaches who claimed they were the reason for Bret Favre. 

If Dantonio had a great OC I'd be interested in him.  If Sumlin had a great DC I'd be interested in him etc.

One guy who interests me  but in the "too soon" category is Penn State's DC.  Franklin is an offensive guy and Vanderbilt won with defense - so that guy sticks out as "the opposite of the HC speciality".  PSU's defense seems pretty solid and if that continues for another few years he seems like a guy someone takes a chance on.  Also a Yale graduate.

BostonBlue41

October 10th, 2014 at 9:48 AM ^

I know he's unproven but I'm very impressed with what he's been able to do at a school like Kentucky. That program was not only a weak program traditionally but also a complete tire fire under Joker Phillips, so to get elite players to buy into his system-including Damien Harris- is pretty damn impressive. I think certainly we'll have to see how the rest of the year pans out but if Hoke stays another year (which shouldn't happen but who knows) he may be a viable candidate in 2016.

Soulfire21

October 10th, 2014 at 10:29 AM ^

He's certainly unproven, but I think if we strike out on Harbaugh(s), Miles and Mullen then he's a solid choice.  He's a blown call from potentially being 5-0 at Kentucky and even so he's right in the thick of the SEC East.

Perkis-Size Me

October 10th, 2014 at 12:54 PM ^

Thanks for putting these together.

In the ideal world, we'd have another year to evaluate this guy, but we don't have that chance, obviously. As you pointed out, the meat of the schedule is coming up, and Kentucky could conceivably crash and burn within the coming weeks. There's not one game left on their schedule I can definitively say they'd win.

If he can get Kentucky to 8-9 wins, he may very well be a viable candidate. Getting to 8-9 wins in Kentucky football is like their basketball team going to the Final Four.

alum96

October 10th, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^

Yes after baby seal this week he will be 5-1 with an OT loss as the 1, so could very easily been 6-0.  If you go 3-3 to close out the year with non blowout losses that is 8-4 which very easily could have been 9-3 in the friggin SEC in his 2nd year with a 2-10 team the prior 2 years.  That would be impressive no matter what.

bluehail47

October 10th, 2014 at 7:13 PM ^

And Stoops has 2 SEC wins and took Florida to overtime, even if it isn't the urban gators.   Are you kidding me?!   Very impressive already!

Harbaughs would be a favorite but its a gamble that either of them would come and when would they be available if they go to the playoffs?  Miles - no, program in decline.  Mullen - wished they would have gone after him after he spanked us in richrod's big bowl game. 

  The Kentucky fanbase is in a panic about the Michigan rumours,  they want UK to show Stoops some $$$.  Stoops should be a serious B candidate.

Its me Dave

October 11th, 2014 at 8:57 AM ^

I have friends in Lexington who are a little uneasy with Stoops' success at UK so far.  Even at this early point in the turnaround, they think Stoops is just padding his resume, and will bolt at a moment's notice for a job at a real football school.