Should We Have Onside Kicked after Koger's TD (The Answer is Yes)

Submitted by Blue_n_Aww on

I hadn't seen this discussed anywhere on the boards, but I was drunk for 48 hours after the PSU game (because of the PSU game) so I may have missed it.

I've been thinking about this for a little while now, and my gut tells me that after Kevin Koger's TD catch (and the subsequent facemask penalty on PSU), we should have gone for the onside kick.

Hypothesis: A normal kickoff will result in the opponent starting, on average, about the 25 yard line. Because we got to kick from the 45 rather than the 30, Penn State's expected starting field position from a normal kickoff (touchback) would be only about 5 yards worse. However, an onside kick from the 45 would probably result in PSU's ball at about the 50. Or we get it back, and the chances of us getting it back are actually greater than the increase Penn State gets from 25 free yards.

In order to test my theory, I'm willing to do some math. I'm going to be using the expected points charts found at Advanced NFL stats. I'll be assuming that we'll always force a touchback if we kick off and that whether we're successful or unsuccessful when we onside kick, the ball will be placed at the PSU 45. My goal is to find how often an onside kick needs to be successful to be better than kicking off.

First thing's first: 1st and 10 from the PSU 20 is worth approximately -.5 points to us. It's obviously worth more to any offense facing our defense and thus the negative number would actually be bigger, but for the sake of the argument I'm going to be as conservative as possible.

1st and 10 from the PSU 45 is worth about -1.7 points when PSU recovers. If M gets the ball it's worth 2.2. So we can represent the equilibrium (i.e. the point where kicking away and onside kicking are equal in value) like so: -.5 =2.2y - 1.7(1-y), where y is the likelihood that the onside kick succeeds.

Solve for y to get: .307 so we'd only have to be successful a little over 30% of the time with these parameters to make kicking an onside kick correct. Given that surprise onside kicks are successful 60% of the time in the NFL, it seems like a pretty large mistake not to onside kick in that situation.

In fact, it's pretty easy to imagine a scenario where a team has a very good offense and a very bad defense (just try to imagine such a thing) where we'd only need to be successful 25% of the time or less. For example, if receiving the ball at their 20 is worth a full point for PSU and recovering an onside kick is worth 2.5 for them and 3.5 for us*, the equation would look like: -1=3.5y-2.5(1-y). Then we'd only need to be successful 25% of the time to make going for the onside kick correct.

Add to all this the fact that in this particular game we were down by multiple scores and would have wanted to increase variance, onside kicking in that spot is an absolute no brainer.

*Numbers pulled from my ass

Comments

Ben Mathis-Lilley

November 4th, 2010 at 11:43 AM ^

But from my memory of the game they never actually changed their alignment. We were in like the nine-hundredth row of the end zone, so this was one of the few things we actually COULD see. At one point when it was already a possibility that we would kick onside they only had two short players to M's four on one side of the field, if I recall. 

MMB 82

November 4th, 2010 at 12:19 PM ^

1) We should always go for it on 4th down, no matter what the situation.

2) We should always onside kick, even at the opening kickoff, no matter what the situation.

 

Just saying.

BlueintheLou

November 4th, 2010 at 12:33 PM ^

Actually, I agree with you, in all seriousness.

How many times did we stop PSU, once? It's been similar in most other games, 1-2 stops. I bet we have just as good of odds as recovering 1-2 onside kicks as we do 1-2 stops, plus the onside kick yields likely better field position than the potential stops.

Your ideas intrigue me, I wish to subscribe to your news letter.

Blue_n_Aww

November 4th, 2010 at 12:53 PM ^

For everyone who says PSU was "ready" for the onside kick: if they were, they didn't show it by alignment. In the NFL, the onside kick success rate when teams are aligned correctly and expecting it is 25%. Normal "surprise" kickoffs are almost always successful because of a superiority of numbers not because the first line of blockers shits the bed. It's the equivalent of having a numbers mismatch on an offensive play; who cares if they "know" you're going to run the zone read if they only have 5 guys in the box?

I think most kickers, even bad ones, are capable of dribbling the ball forward 10 yards. Christ, I can do it and I just played some D-III soccer

hailtothevictors08

November 4th, 2010 at 1:15 PM ^

to onside kick it with the pentalty ... but somehow rich rod either didnt hear me or decided to ignore me .... cant imagine why  (SARCASM)

but seriously, we have to be getting close to saying screw it and kicking it onside everytime

BlueTimesTwo

November 4th, 2010 at 2:00 PM ^

We should go onsides regularly, but at kind of random intervals.  This will force the other teams to keep their hands team in instead of their return team.  When we go onsides we have a chance of getting it, and when we don't they will have a poor return.  Our best bet is to not be predictable in any way at this point.