Section 21 cheerleaders and stadium etiquette

Submitted by blueheron on

At the State game I was mostly surrounded by Spartans.  A few of them were very annoying, but the fans that bugged me the most in the immediate area were a couple with Maize 'n Blue gear.  Why?  As far as I could see, they had a poor grasp of stadium etiquette, at least as I understand it.  I'm accustomed to standing up often for big plays as the "standing" wave cascades upward from the field.  No big deal ... I usually enjoy the process and it seems healthier than sitting for the whole game.  But, outside the student section I rarely see people standing continuously.  That's what these two fans, who were apparently boyfriend and girlfriend, were doing.

When it became clear that this was going to be their baseline posture, I decided to engage them in conversation.  (They turned my seat into an obstructed-view location.  It was that simple.)  I had to reach over a row to do so and the woman was closest, so I started with her.  When I asked whether she wouldn't mind sitting for "less important plays" she gave me a really nonlinear answer along the lines of "GO BLUE DEFENSE AHHHHHHH!!!"  Ever accidentally step on a cat's tail?  Remember the sound the cat made?  Multiply that by six or seven and you'll have some idea of how the chick sounded.  It hurt my ears.

It was my brother-in-law's turn, so he tried poking the guy, who went ape$hit.  In spectacularly nonlinear fashion, he started screaming to everyone in the area about how Michigan hadn't beaten State in many hundreds of days and how we needed to STAND UP and support the team.  The doofus was the self-appointed spirit bunny of Section 21.  Even the meathead Spartans behind me were stunned at the outburst.

Anyway, I'll spare the readers the rest of the details.  They settled down a bit and, shortly after the dude screamed himself hoarse in the third quarter, they left (!).  So much for the cheerleader role ...

Were they justified in standing up in a sea of sitting people?  Spirit aside, I just wanted to see the game.  I honestly didn't understand why they couldn't sit like everyone else (since their own view would not have been obstructed).  What do MgoBloggers think of this?

Nickel

October 14th, 2010 at 11:03 AM ^

Biggest game of the season so far.  Against our in-state rival Michigan State.  Biggest game said rivalry has had in years and people wanted to sit?

Hell, I'm paralyzed completely from the knees down and only have the use of part of my quads in my upper legs and if I were at the game I'd still be standing by leaning on my crutches.

Geaux_Blue

October 14th, 2010 at 11:05 AM ^

that should be governed by the Section en masse. If everyone wants to stand, don't be the guy demanding they sit. If 99% of the section is sitting, don't be the guy blocking 10 people's view. It's a free world but civility should dominate. 

wile_e8

October 14th, 2010 at 11:26 AM ^

This.  If it was up to me, everyone would stand all the time.  But when I got tickets for the UConn game, I found that I can still watch the game and make noise while seated.

 

But I was still one of the first people on my feet when I saw the rows in front of me starting to rise for an upcoming big down.

Geaux_Blue

October 14th, 2010 at 11:50 AM ^

when the wave of people preparing to stand is coming, that's fine. i get up. but i also crouch if possible and try to give sight lines for the people behind me. 

i don't think anybody is in disagreement, save the few who would prefer to sit all game every game no matter what, that standing would be the preference. however, it's the lofty idealistic wish and not the reality. the reality is we cannot all stand or we alienate a segment unwilling or unable. i'm not self-focused enough to put my interest of standing before the ability of people, who paid the same (or more) for their seats, to see.

StephenRKass

October 14th, 2010 at 11:40 AM ^

Sometimes you stand, sometimes you sit.

Actually, I remember sitting a lot in the student section. Course, at that time, we were winning most of our games, so that might have changed things a bit.

Seriously, I don't mind standing for most of the game, but for TV timeouts and halftime and when the game is lame or a slaughter, it makes sense to sit. Nothing anyone should get too torn up about.

lilpenny1316

October 14th, 2010 at 11:06 AM ^

If you graduate from that school, meaning you paid your dues, then you earned the right to sit if you want. 

And for all the people who talk about it being quiet in there and blaming it on old people, you need to go check out some of the old people sections at OSU and Wisky.  They sit there as well. 

The design and acoustics of the stadium play a large part of how distracting it is for the players.  Those fans aren't better, but the overhang for the second deck takes all that sound and pushes it back towards the playing field.

mejunglechop

October 14th, 2010 at 11:07 AM ^

Unorthodox question: what does standing have to do with homefield advantage? I can yell just as loud sitting down.

03 Blue 07

October 14th, 2010 at 2:34 PM ^

I don't actually think you can yell as loud sitting down, due to the compressed lower portion of your gullet when sitting. You also get more air when standing, as your airway is more open. I wish we could figure this out, though- maybe me and you in a padded room, with a decibelmeter (if that's what it's called). If nothing else, the experiment would beat the hell out of working.

1201SouthMain

October 14th, 2010 at 11:13 AM ^

If you don't want to stand then fine .... but don't bitch about somebody that wants to stand and cheer their team.  The whinny fan that complains is the person with the poor stadium etiquette imho.

Reminds me of a concert I went to years ago.  Plant Page so there were fans of all ages.  I was mid 30's at the time.  Two couples behind me were probably early 50's.  The two women bitched and moaned non stop because I wanted to stand.  Half the stadium was standing.  And when I explained that they could not have cared less.  They insisted I sit down.  It was to the point I couldn't enjoy the concert cause these women would not shut up or leave me alone.  Their husbands are even pleading with me just so the women will shut up.  I felt guilty for a bit and sat but then Led busted out some awesome tune and I said eff this and stood the rest of the concert.  It was a great concert except for the poor stadium etiquette of those two hags.  If you don't want to stand and cheer then watch at home or rent the concert dvd.  You don't have to stand but don't complain when other do choose to stand. 

Geaux_Blue

October 14th, 2010 at 11:35 AM ^

and think it comes down to "does your use of freedoms restrict the freedom of others." i could understand standing if the person in front of you was and you were unable to see. but affecting dozens of people due to your own personal choice seems rude. if you don't mind being rude, fine. but i'm not going to stand because "dammit i want to" and subject 4 people, who could see fine before i stood up, to my butt and shoulders simply out of my own desires. the OP was right IMO - and i think some other people in here are right when "everyone else is standing but this guy expects me to sit."

should people be allowed to hold signs in front of your view bc they want to have a message seen? or bullhorns right behind you?

FGB

October 14th, 2010 at 1:03 PM ^

It was a great concert except for the poor stadium etiquette of those two hags.

But don't you see they could probably say the same thing about you?  I have no idea whether they were rude in which case maybe they deserved a little spite, but that's not really the point. 

You're saying you were having trouble enjoying the concert because they were asking you to sit.  I'm guessing they were having trouble enjoying the concert because you were standing in front of them.  You won out because you ultimately controlled the situation and chose to opt for your increased enjoyment over their decreased enjoyment.

I can't say "you're wrong", because it's not really a "who's right/who's wrong" equation.  But I can say that you were inconsiderate to their enjoyment and I'm not sure it's worth making it that much harder for them, when the increased gratification for you is so small. 

You had the control (whether to sit or stand) and they could do nothing about it because you're within your rights to stand.  But there are a million other social situations where someone else has control over you and your enjoyment (waiting in line, grabbing the last beer, etc).   Personally, I would rather be considerate when I have the control (even if I'd prefer to stand), and hope/expect the same consideration when I don't.

strafe

October 14th, 2010 at 3:05 PM ^

Your assumption that the satisfaction he gained by standing is small is incorrect. you might not get much out of standing, but you can't apply the same trade off to other people. Some people just don't enjoy things when they're sitting down. Can't blame them for being that way.

Personally, the day that I can't stand for the entire game is probably the day I'll hang myself. But it's also unlikely I'd go to a game if I couldn't get student section tickets, cuz ya'll makin' it sound like non student seating is just awful.

Section 1

October 15th, 2010 at 9:57 AM ^

Personally, the day that I can't stand for the entire game is probably the day I'll hang myself. But it's also unlikely I'd go to a game if I couldn't get student section tickets, cuz ya'll makin' it sound like non student seating is just awful.

"Things they do look awful c-c-cold; Hope I die, before I get old..."

Alton

October 14th, 2010 at 11:14 AM ^

It's amazing how many people think that standing up can affect the result on the field, isn't it?  If you do think that by standing you can influence the outcome of the game, I guess you pretty much have a duty to stand.  The fact that there is no statistical evidence that standing or yelling or wearing the same hat every week actually does affect the result doesn't really deter people from these beliefs. 

At some point, people will realize that the advantage for the home team is about the same in FBS, FCS, Division II, Division III or NAIA, and that it's the same for Texas A&M as it is for Rice, and will realize that whether or not I wear my lucky hat or whether or not I stand does not affect the game.

In the meantime, the old rule always applys:  don't be an asshole.  Don't be the only one standing in your section and think that justice is on your side.  Don't be the only one sitting in your section and think that you have a right to dictate to everybody else.  The wisdom of the crowd is almost always right in this case--if a majority of the people in front of you are standing, you should stand.  If a majority of the people in front of you are sitting when the offense lines up for the play, you should sit .  You can't go wrong if you follow that basic "no asshole" rule.

The Harbaughnger

October 14th, 2010 at 11:44 AM ^

No one is condoning being an asshole. I don't care what a majority of the people are doing around me if I'm able to help my team. If most people around me are sitting down, and I'm standing screaming for my team, that doesn't make me an asshole. It makes you a zero, and a non-factor. $1000 says no one in the video below was sitting on their ass. It should be common sense- loud crowds are a huge help. And loud crowds are NOT sitting crowds: If you try to tell me that a standing, screaming crowd had nothing to do with that, you're out of your mind.

Alton

October 14th, 2010 at 12:00 PM ^

Good reply, thanks.

Oh, absolutely, the crowd did have something to do with that.  I assume they were standing, too, although I guess I can't prove it.  I suppose that the result of that play affected the result of the game, too.

Also, the plural of anecdote is data...

And a higher percentage of Division III conference games are won by the home team than in Division I FBS conference games.  CUSA games are won by the home team more frequently than SEC games.  This means that either Division III crowds are louder than FBS crowds, and CUSA crowds are louder than SEC crowds, or something else is going on here to help the home teams win.

Hey, I'm not telling anybody not to yell.  I'm just saying that in the end yelling affects the result of the  game the same way that me wearing my lucky hat affects the result of the game.

The Harbaughnger

October 14th, 2010 at 12:16 PM ^

Ok- data.  I get it- but sometimes (rarely, but it does happen) data can make us ignore common sense that, I would say, is staring us right in the face.

(My apologies for saying you're out of your mind.  It's a heated topic and I shouldn't have typed it.  +1 to you.)

Section 1

October 14th, 2010 at 6:52 PM ^

I recall it being generally in the 1978 to about 1994 time period.  Don't quote me.

But I witnessed a number of games where Bo used the rule like a genius.  We milked it in that game at ND.  In one game at Madison, I think we used it to burn up every one of the Badgers' timeouts and then got a penalty to boot.

That Michigan QB in that video clip is Michael Taylor.  Not a "pussy."  A great, gutsy, Michigan quarterback:

http://aceofsports.blogspot.com/2008/08/where-you-at-michael-taylor-edition.html

I'll save some space for you to apologize on these pages to Michael Taylor after you read that page from Ace's blog.

lilpenny1316

October 14th, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^

First, they were in the student section of the field.  It's going to be louder.  I'm not sure how the student section is situated at the Big House but it would probably be best if the student section took up at least the first 40 rows around the endzone, from the 20 to the 20.

Second, road teams will employ the "We can't hear ourselves think" as a ploy.  I was at the 1990 OSU game in Columbus and they used that same trick and OSU either had one of their timeouts taken away or a penalty assessed.  I believe the crowd gets two or three warnings before timeouts would be taken away.  They had silent counts back then, so they could have run their plays.

Third, when the clip started, Michigan had 3rd and 7, so they must have converted unless the last part of that clip is from later in the game. 

Also, wasn't this ND's national title team?  Means they're pretty good right?  That might have had something to do with them getting stuffed on that last play.

And please, can we not bring up the '88 ND game?  For those of us who sat there around 11PM that night saying "Who is Reggie Ho?" this does not bring up good memories.  The 1988 and 1990 ND games should be barred from memory.

gbdub

October 14th, 2010 at 11:15 AM ^

I was at the UConn game - first game outside the student section. I think we were in section 23. Anyway we probably stood half the game and sat half the game, because that's what everyone else was doing. Funny thing is, my legs hurt more the next day from the constant getting up and sitting down than from standing on the benches the whole game as a student. And I saw less of the game, because if a big play happened, the oncoming "wave" of standing would obscure my vision till I could jump to my feet. So basically, I'd really prefer to stand, but if sitting, would prefer to remain sitting except for really huge moments. I'd like there to be more of a culture of "stand up and cheer", but being the only guy standing in the section does nothing to help that goal.

Thing was, there was a little girl behind us who couldn't see at all if people were standing - she's going to be a big fan someday and you'd be a real jerk to intentionally ruin her experience. There was also an old lady who clearly didn't have the legs to stand the whole time. But they both cheered and yelled when you're supposed to, and sang along to The Victors, etc. Were they as wild as the students? No, but they also weren't 20 and blitzed half out of their minds, so I wouldn't expect them to be.

Yeah, the quiet blue-haired alumni can be annoying, but without them the team doesn't exist (who do you think funds scholarships and the shiny new stadium? Not the student section...). So don't be a jerk and ruin someone else's experience because it doesn't conform to what you think a "real fan experience" should be. And guess what - if people are getting annoyed at you because you won't sit down, you're drawing attention to yourself instead of the game, and actively taking support away from the team. First and foremost, encourage people to be loud - that's the most important thing. If you can manage that, encourage them to stand as much as possible, but if it doesn't work, don't stand in front of people just to be stubborn. Sit down and scream your lungs out. That's going to be more helpful than getting everyone ticked at you instead of watching the game.

The Harbaughnger

October 14th, 2010 at 11:23 AM ^

Dear blueheron,

In all seriousness, please define what a "less important play" is.

The experience you're looking for can be gained by going to Blockbuster, renting "Field of Dreams", and eating a nice fluffy bucket of popcorn on your couch.

The Harbaughnger

October 14th, 2010 at 12:08 PM ^

With all due respect, I totally disagree.  Try telling a coach that some downs aren't important.

..."less important play"...  Keyword being play

How is 1st or 2nd down any less important than any other down?  I just don't get it.

If we make a huge play on X down because of crowd influence, why should it have mattered what down it was in the series?

Games are made and broken on random downs every week.

Games are made and broken when teams are on O or D every week.

Games are made and broken with Special Teams plays every week.

Unless you can see the future, you don't know which downs are big downs and which downs aren't.

How about this, what if you could make an "unimportant" down a very important down by tipping the advantage to your own team?