September 12th, 2017 at 1:47 AM ^
NFL had two games tonight and I still enjoyed watching the Tenn-GT game more. I'm convinced that the reason NFL viewership is down has nothing to do with National Anthem protests and everything to do with the NFL being a crappy product. I would turn on any NFL game in the 4th quarter and not feel like I missed a thing.
September 12th, 2017 at 8:45 AM ^
September 12th, 2017 at 6:20 AM ^
September 12th, 2017 at 9:29 AM ^
But something about a female calling an NFL game just doesn't sound right.
I could tolerate her doing college when Spielman was doing color but this isn't working for me.
September 12th, 2017 at 10:52 AM ^
But something about a female calling an NFL game just doesn't sound right.
While I certainly don't go out of my way to watch games that Mowins is announcing, what, specifically, is wrong with a woman calling an NFL game?
If it sounds unfamiliar, is it, but that's because no woman has ever called an NFL game. If we're going to talk about qualifications, sure she's never played pro sports. Neither has Joe Buck. Granted, he's terrible, but we all acknowledge that his terribleness has nothing to do with his XY chromosomes, but his flatulent grandstanding. So, fine - Chick Hearn. He's one of the top 5 play-by-play broadcasters of all time and he had every bit as much pro sports playing experience as Mowins. Why is it ok for him to call pro sports games but not Mowins?
(Also, regarding the issue of former athletes as broadcasters - Reggie Miller and Terry Bradshaw get paid money to say things on TV. I'm just sayin')
Bottom line is that if it "doesn't sound right" for a female to be calling an NFL game, it's not a female problem, it's an NFL culture problem.
September 12th, 2017 at 11:02 AM ^
Are we really at a place in our society where a guy can't complain about a female announcing an NFL football game? Football is played by men. We don't need to be so ridiculously over the top pc, that guys can't openly express that they prefer to have dudes announcing a game that is only played by dudes.
Come the fuck on. I'm all for equal pay, rights, what have you, but this is absurd.
September 12th, 2017 at 11:37 AM ^
If it's PC to say that anyone who's objectively qualified to announce a pro game should be able to do so, then I guess I'm PC. I completely get that it might feel unfamiliar and at first offputting to hear a woman announce an NFL game because that's literally never happened before. You're not a retrograde chauvinist and a horrible person if that's your gut reaction.
What I am trying to point out is that there's objectively nothing about being a woman that should disqualify someone from that job. If she's able to describe things in the game using complete sentences - again, those are literally the requisite qualities for a PbP job - she's not any less qualified than Joey Galloway or whoever. To me, that's what it means to be for equal opportunity.
She can't help being a woman who probably lacks the muscle mass or 40 time to play football at any competitive level. Jay Harbaugh can't help being the son of Jim Harbaugh and the associated charges of nepotism. In Jay's case he compensated by doing his homework and learning everything he could about coaching and it's pretty obviously paid off. In Mowins' case, while I don't particularly mark out for her, I'm sure she's done her homework and paid her dues every bit as much as her colleagues. There are ten zillion other not-great PbP guys working games so what's wrong with her being one of them?
If you wanna downvote me for going to bat for Beth Mowins, I understand. I almost downvoted myself for that. But her drabness as a play-by-play gal puts her on equal footing with the ten zillion other play-by-play mooks who I could take or leave.
September 12th, 2017 at 12:05 PM ^
I didn't say she (or any female) isn't qualified, at any point above. I don't understand why people can't argue the points made, and not create their own faux argument against things that were never said. It is incredibly frustrating, and has created this environment that we have today, where everything is just reactionary noise. I hate it.
If you want to re-read my post, and reply to what I actually said, then I'll respond. If not, okay.
September 12th, 2017 at 1:21 PM ^
Actually.... I did read and re-read your post and I responded accordingly - I'm sorry if you feel like I was talking past you but maybe that's at the heart of the disagreement. And I wasn't trying to disparage you as a person.
So, again we must ask - are we arguing qualifications or acceptance? If you find it off-putting that a woman's announcing a game played by all men, that preference is in fact an issue of acceptance. And in a semi-public job as a sports announcer, there IS a non-zero amount of overlap between one's objective qualifications and how much he or she is accepted by the listening public. As I acknowledged earlier, it is admittedly prima facie weird and something of a novelty but someone is always going to be first at something. I do get that. And I'd imagine that it's probably something Becky Hammons had to deal with as an assistant coach for the Spurs. She probably had to travel a longer road than a male assistant coach might've to gain the acceptance of the all-male roster of players she was coaching. And if you ask any woman making in-roads to a male-dominated field, 90% of them would say something similar. That doesn't mean the guys she was working with were uniformly awful or non-supportive but there were invisible barriers she had to navigate *while* also being expected to do the job. And I think it's healthy and constructive to recognize both of these things.
September 12th, 2017 at 2:35 PM ^
It is simply about preference, nothing more. You can call that acceptance, sure, but it doesn't indicate any discrimination, or anything of the sort. It's a man's game, played by men, and I prefer that the announcers are men who have played the game. You just can't understand all of the nuance if you haven't played, no matter the amount of homework done, or "qualifications". That's all, nothing more.
September 12th, 2017 at 3:14 PM ^
Again, I can't agree with that. And there may very well be an absence of a conscious intent to discriminate but it still in actuality manifests itself as a barrier to women in the broadcasting industry.
But just off the top of my head, Jim Nantz has never played a down of pro (or, iirc, college) football. Neither have Dick Stockton or Bob Costas (who I still conflate with Michael J. Fox) Maybe they played high school football but there's a cavernous gulf between the high school and the pro game so that doesn't even count. But by and large most people generally accept that they can competently call a game even without having played it.
That's not to impugn the value of pro experience. Brandstatter and Dierdorf are former players and that's certainly an asset for their sportscasting careers. However there've been more than enough guys who've never played the game but studied up on it enough to announce it.
September 12th, 2017 at 3:21 PM ^
I'd be happy to never hear Bob Costas announce a game again, I've never liked him as an announcer for anything outside Olympic sports. For football, it's mostly because he's just a pithy talker, doesn't truly understand the game. Jim Nantz I like, for the most part, but greatly prefer to listen to guys who played.
Not sure what else to add.
September 12th, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^
Don't disagree with you about Costas, but I cited him as an example of a more-or-less accepted announcer-type thing.
But, sure - experience and insight as a former player is definitely a plus and it's valid and fair to have that be one's personal preference as long as it's not an ironclad dealbreaker for a theoretical woman's career prospects. Especially since several people who are considered all-time greats in the profession were not former players - again, Chick Hearn and Al Michaels.
(Fun fact: Al Michaels was a PR guy for the Lakers for about seven minutes before getting axed because Hearn didn't like him)
September 12th, 2017 at 4:24 PM ^
I haven't fact checked this, but you could probably put Ufer on your list too. I don't think he played football. Not sure why I'm adding to your argument, but there you go.
September 12th, 2017 at 4:53 PM ^
Ufer was born Cleveland, Ohio and grew up in the Pittsburgh suburb of Mt. Lebanon, Pennsylvania.[5] His father was a lumber broker.[6] An outstanding track and field athlete at the University of Michigan,[7][8] Ufer set eight freshman records. At the Big Ten Conference track meet in 1942, he set a new world indoor record of 48.1 seconds in the 440-yard dash, breaking the old record of 48.2.[9] He was a three-time Big Ten Conference champion in the indoor 440-yard dash.[10]
Pity - given his straight line speed, perhaps we could've used him as a QB in a read option offense? It'd depend on how much practice he had in the relay handing off batons.
One thing I'll readily admit, though - the insights of a former player *now* are probably more useful than *then* because the game has gotten so much more intricate at all levels. I mean, we're probably running (if not executing) an offense under Harbaugh with more wrinkles than pro players during the 50's. In some ways that's good because the game is more tactical but we may very well never see a phenom like Tom Harmon(?) or Bo Jackson again dominating in multiple sports by sheer will and athleticism because of the specialization involved at the highest levels.
September 12th, 2017 at 4:56 PM ^
I agree with all of that. Good talk. You did at least make me reconsider my stance, but ultimately I still feel the same.
September 12th, 2017 at 5:15 PM ^
Likewise - but I feed that a reasonable civil disagreement is bad form for this blog. Next time let's try harder to make the mod's lives miserable.
September 12th, 2017 at 5:25 PM ^
I can only regret that no mud was thrown. We'll do better next time.
September 12th, 2017 at 11:41 AM ^
Also, women's basketball is played by women. But we don't blink an eye that at least half of the teams are coached by men and sometimes announced by men. If they can do the job - as is the case with Geno Auriemma, at least, they can do the job.