901 P

March 15th, 2017 at 10:46 PM ^

I'm frustrated--but not surprised--that this thread veered off into the overtly political. Obviously the topic has political implications, but so too do many issues surrounding sports--race, gender, class, etc. are and always have been tied into athletics. (In other words, athletics can never be "pure" entertainment.)

In this instance it was disheartening that someone would point out that Michigan was an early advocate for recognizing the rights and needs of gay students and would get downvoted for such a statement. I mean, that strikes me as so uncontroversial to be basically apolitical--saying that gay students deserve respect, compassion, and to be treated with dignity. The fact that someone would downvote such a statment is depressing.

I guess I'm feeling a little fired up like MGoBrewMom. Apologies if I am dragging us further into the political rabbithole. 

Lakeyale13

March 15th, 2017 at 11:07 PM ^

Do you think an opposing viewpoint would be any different?  If I posted something of the sort of "So Proud that Michigan was the first University to have a Baptist Student Union!  Its great to be a Michigan Wolverine" in response to an outspoken Christian swimmer's achievments, you don't think it would get neg bombed into oblivion?  Of course it would and it rightfully should due to the guidelines of this board.  Once you make a statement of clear politics removing all gray areas and clearly stating a political viewpoint, you have broken the rules of the board.  

901 P

March 15th, 2017 at 11:36 PM ^

Possibly! Though I'd be happy if we were the first school to create a Baptist student union to provide for our Baptist students. That's a good thIng, and it's part of respecting the different qualities and backgrounds that make up our student body. But I agree with your larger point--people will neg a pro-Trump comment because "no politics," but then post a pro-Obama comment themselves.

Lakeyale13

March 15th, 2017 at 11:48 PM ^

Correct.  I would be just as outraged as you if the "negs" to that post were indeed to make a statement that they weren't for the fair treatment, rights, and protection of gay students on campus.  I know I certainly support their rights as such.  I am assuming the "negs" are pointed towards the political tone than the content itself.  At least i am giving them the benefit of the doubt and hoping there isnt anyone who truly would want unequitable treatement of gay students on campus.  That would truly be deplorable.  

Lionsfan

March 16th, 2017 at 2:08 AM ^

1, Comparing what-ifs is always somewhat odd, since you're just making assumptions 2, Being gay is not a choice like being Baptist, or a Democrat, or Republican is. Being proud that Michigan was one of the first schools to move beyond ignorant politics and accept that being gay is a reality is not political It's as political as being glad we accept people of color into university now

Lakeyale13

March 16th, 2017 at 8:49 AM ^

Not true, we know 100% fact that being gay is not genetic, or at least not entirely genetic.  If that were so, 100% of identicall twins (two people with the EXACT same DNA) where one brother was gay would mean the other brother would be gay too.  This isn't the case (I believe the basketball Jason Collins is an example.  If I remember he is an identical twin and his brother is straighta and he is gay). 

 

What Im not saying is that being gay has no genetic component, there certainly may be, but it we know with Scientific certainty that it isn't 100% genetic.  That is just an unarguable fact.

MGoBrewMom

March 15th, 2017 at 10:34 PM ^

His small pussy grabbing hands? His bromance/break up with Putin? The fact that all he does is market himself, but really knows nothing, or doesn't care about consequences of shutting every government office? The fact that his VP doesn't believe in science so strongly that he voted against "Pi Day"? There...maybe that's political enough to shut down the comments.

MGoBrewMom

March 16th, 2017 at 12:11 AM ^

I did fly off the handle..not gonna get into why-but I'm off base... Sensitive issue, and I do see that the LakeYale comments didn't warrant my reaction. I do think there are a lot of ignorant comments as well--but I did not help my cause. Super sensitive, and I did not use a filter. Carry on, and please accept my apologies.

901 P

March 16th, 2017 at 6:27 AM ^

You don't always see a lot of self-reflection in threads like this. It's a sensitive topic, for some people more than others. I personally get very angry when I think of the discrimination and abuse that is often hurled at people who are gay, transgender, etc. Clearly this is something that matters to you, and I appreciate that.

You may not be thrilled with your comments now, but don't sweat it--we all have bad days on the board. It's just rare for most of us to admit it!

Lakeyale13

March 16th, 2017 at 8:54 AM ^

Apology accepted MGoBrewMom!  I am assuming by your inference that personally this issue has touched you / your family in some way, and that you have been on the recieving end of some mistreatment.  If that is the case, I am truly sorry for that.  That is a horribly painful thing to have to experience or watch someone else you love experience.

 

Even though we disagree, I hope you know that I respect and love you as a person.  Odd thing to say on a message board LOL, but its important to say in this climate of today.  To disagree is not to hate, and I hope we all (myself most included) can remembert that.  I wish you nothing but the best!

MGoBrewMom

March 16th, 2017 at 4:08 PM ^

Have been bugging the hell out of me all night. Would have loved to turtle all those responses. I read too quickly, made assumptions--mis-read and went bat shit. I am good at self reflection--but I should be better at pausing before responding. Yeah, I have close friends, and other friends who actually have kids with gender identity issues. Kids I've known since they were very young. One was 7 when I met him (she was a her then), the other was 2. Real life shit. Real life families, and I hear so many insensitive things, and read a few things here, and very wrongly, jumped to conclusions without reading well and undertstanding more. The kid that I've known since she was 2, was born a boy and now lives as a 14 year old girl-- goes to school, plays club soccer on a girls team--which is how she identifies. Nobody knows except those who are close to the family, and a few of us outsiders with kids the same age and knew her as "him" when he was 2, and wearing dresses, etc (more than that--not that simple). The sports/competition part of it is a different subject, but I can tell you that kids can, and do, get hormones that stop puberty (pause it), so these kids can actually 'go back' should they choose (they never do choose to go back, from what I've heard). So, this (now 13 year old) trans girl does not have the testosterone that a boy has. Anyhow..I certainly do not have answers for fairness in competition. I just don't like this group of people being judged and marginalized by people who don't understand or try to understand. Regardless of their small percentage of the population, they are still human, and I am pretty defensive of them. Thank you for accepting my apology. I still may change my MGoName--may need a new identity soon if I keep freaking out.

901 P

March 15th, 2017 at 11:16 PM ^

I try to be fair-minded, but I'll admit that I don't always succeed. So I am much more forgiving of a post that is impassioned if I happen to agree with the person. As a result I'm not too bothered by MGoBrewMom's tone, but I don't have a lot of patience for the guy below me complaining about the social justice warrior privilege on this blog.

Anyway, that's my full disclosure and admission of bias, one-sidedness, etc. I agree with you that this thread (which must be living on borrowed time, right?) does in fact have some thoughtful and informative posts. I'd be curious to know more about people who don't fit the xx/xy binary and how they complicate any policies about athletics. 

In any event, I was primarily surprised at how many negative reactions the initial story generated. 

BayWolves

March 15th, 2017 at 11:00 PM ^

What are you rallying, the fact that you don't know what chromosomes are or how gender is a biological fact and not a choice or preference or psychological disorder that manifests itself into the reality of DNA? Your obsession with bathrooms and feelings over science? Your love of an invasion of privacy to satisfy people with a mental disorder? If your comment didn't do it, and it probably won't because it is prevailing emotional political ideology infecting the education system, then my comment, based on science, will surely lock down the thread due to the social justice warrior privilege that dominates our politically correct and Orwellian education system, popular culture, and blog. Holy shit.



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160 IQ

March 15th, 2017 at 11:45 PM ^

A lot of people are useful idiots that are brainwashed by the globalists to destroy a country.  Once that is done they are killed.  Don't be one of those people.  Trump is the first non-globalist puppet since Kennedy.  Still many people are mind controlled by the globalists through their educational and media indoctrination.  Thankfully that number is shrinking everyday.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4kHiUAjTvQ

Lee Everett

March 15th, 2017 at 11:15 PM ^

You guys are unbelievable.

There's intelligent discussion to be had, but this isn't it; it's not fruitful to vouch for the T and the Q from LBGTQ as mental disorders.  It could be compelling to discuss certain instances where genotypic sex becomes fuzzy, like in Caster Semenya's case (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya)...but as far as we should be concerned we have a young person who is genetically female, doesn't identify as male or female, and we shouldn't be making that a difficult issue for them and be welcoming of a student-athlete who is just being themselves.

901 P

March 15th, 2017 at 11:19 PM ^

"but as far as we should be concerned we have a young person who is genetically female, doesn't identify as male or female, and we shouldn't be making that a difficult issue for them and be welcoming of a student-athlete who is just being themselves."

Couldn't agree more, and you managed to express your point with clarity and efficiency (unlike my many wordy posts above). Thanks Lee!

1 percent

March 15th, 2017 at 11:47 PM ^

I thought it was a pretty intelligent conversation and I think the mental health portion is a decent chunk of it, right or wrong. Speaking to people with differing viewpoints and perspectives is pretty awesome as long as people aren't being douchebags about it. I really couldn't care less what she is as long as she's happy with herself. Hopefully that feeling is recripricated. I always find it interesting trying to understand something I'm relatively ignorant to though.

Lee Everett

March 16th, 2017 at 12:18 AM ^

Pulling out our DSM-5's and diagnosing a Michigan player is something you think is above board?  I doubt that'd go over well if we were to label a football player with Narcissistic Personality Disorder for going pro when we didn't think they were ready, or say that the next person who ends gets in legal trouble has a Conduct Disorder, or that the next player who gets in hot water over a girl is a sexual deviant somehow.

In the case that the swimmer DID have a different mental disorder, can you imagine how the article would be received?  "Swimmer conquers BPD" would have resulted in much different commentary.  If the school were supportive to a player that had extreme Anxiety or Depression or what have you, we'd be saying that ~it's great to be~.

Binary thinking in terms of "gender"/phenotypic sex/genotypic sex as it relates to competitive sports is the correct topic, NOT amateurs discussing whether a kid has a psychological disorder.  It wouldn't be white knighting to shut that shit down otherwise.

BursleyBaitsBus

March 15th, 2017 at 11:50 PM ^

Welp. This thread is pointless now thanks to MGoBrewMom and Baywolves. Might as well lock it up. 

It veered off from an interesting debate on sport policy into anti-Trumpism with a hefty dose of right-wing tinfoilism. 

 

Sigh... 

Michwolverinefreak

March 16th, 2017 at 12:17 AM ^

but I've met so many girls in martial arts that can straightup beat the shit out of anyone.

Ugh. This could have been a good debate. All you have to do now is say "SJW" to discredit someone on the left or "sexist" to discredit someone on the right. You can still meet in the middle on this issue with science.