He struggled in the places we watched him struggle at UM and was terrific in the places we watched him be terrific at. His evals seem pretty accurate.
His most inconsistent throw remains the short-intermediate out. He tends to sail it or put it at the WRs feet. His deep ball still needs work. That said, he's throwing to guys he has never thrown to before so it's a little wonky for most QBs at The Combine. He'll do better at his pro day.
I maintain that he needs to go to a spot where he can sit for a year or two but it's looking more and more like a team may decide to take him as their franchise QB. If so, I hope it's staff and system that can help him early.
I keep having to repeat this to people. Michigan won the last title when it still resembled the game we all grew up loving. They also won the last version of The Game that is truly THE GAME. From here out they'll just meet again in a week every 2-3 years and then maybe again in the playoffs.
No matter what happens going forward with the game itself or NCAA, that remains true and it's awesome.
Oh, that's the point. They can't go that high. The Supreme Court with a right majority (but even if it didn't) cannot wait to kill them. So they have to fight these battles with the weirdos that get appointed to the levels that you just give political favors to. So anyone appointed from the deep South is like the sports loving cousin of a pool installer that donated a bunch of money.
The NCAA can't go up because they 100% lose. They have to wade in this level of court and try to win there when those are also lost causes for much more direct, fandom associated reasons. It's very funny due to who The NCAA is and how much they deserve to die.
Not at all a political post, more of a comedic twist that borders on irony:
Whenever you're dealing with courts at this level you're dealing with politics and the one entity The NCAA would most count on to help them by way of employee/labor stunting is also the entity that has it's base in the Southeast where nothing means more than CFB. The people you're counting on to save you in what amounts to a labor battle are the very people that would kill their entire family to beat their rival and have been punished at some point by The NCAA for doing all they could to help make it so.
"Help us keep the labor from profiting...but also ignore that we want to actively try to keep your favorite team from being as good as they can be, to the point that we'll punish you if you do something we don't like that's often based on our whims"
It's a lose-lose for The NCAA. It would be tough enough to win this battle with judges that care about Stanford, Northwestern, etc. Eventually you'll be dealing with deep South judges that are wearing Bama and LSU shirts under their robes. Good luck, NCAA.
It's why you fight them. Always. Eventually you'll get a judge that spends their Saturday watching CFB. You'll win.
If this email is real it's basically a celebratory admission.
Like I said before, one of the only people I care to get info from and trust implicitly insists that "the calls were coming from inside the house". That's as far as they'd go on to say specifically.
The way I read them - and it's a lot of assumption admittedly - is that the very factioned University, Alumni Groups and AD did battle behind the scenes and an asshole like Stapleton won. Whatever group or faction he belongs to won and many claim his faction desires the dumbest, worst shit for UM Football because he felt slighted by Harbaugh. That part I'll have to trust others on as I don't know him but if that email is real this is basically a "got em" post by Stapleton.
The initial rumor a while back said the teams would wear the colors of UM and OSU. Not sure if it's true but it was leaked before the game was even made official, AFAIK.
Heard a few weeks ago that Detroit will wear UM-based gear (colors only) and Columbus will do the same for OSU. Which is an odd reversal but could be neat.
Yes, solid recruiter and debatable coach. Not that it should remove him from contention but he also heavily talked shit and negatively recruited Michigan after he left. Was beyond Frames tor a while and that's saying something.
Sure but they've had the better program in that period, especially the last 20 years. It's due to how they run their program across the board.
Same amount of titles over 30 years but they've played for, what, 3 others? I also don't see any 3-9 years or weirdo factions constantly kicking their own dicks at the top.
Definitely more talent than he had coming back to UCLA and he wants to be in The NFL again. I think it's a similar rehab project as Wink but it's weird because he was a current head coach at a major program. He was on a very short leash and checked out mentally on the job months ago but he was technically the head coach haha.
I think he was willing to trade the money for a chance to work with a guy he knows, with a ton of talent and if he succeeds he takes the first NFL interest he gets.
They don't fuck around at the top. They tend to all be rowing on unison and willing to play "big boy cfb". They've been seen as SEC North for two decades for a reason.
Michigan and many other blue bloods have so much infighting and factions that it ultimately hurts them eventually. OSU tends to just want to win, with little regard for whether you love Woody or played for him or whatever. It helps but they don't really care.
Not sure his contract details at MSU but he 100% would have taken the UCLA job over MSU if he knew it would open up.
He chose MSU because it was the best available job at a time his stock was high and he was looking to bail on his alma mater to avoid the Pac2 mess. If UCLA was also open he doesn't even think twice about it.
I think he just got sick of being a program leader. A lot of people around the program have wanted him out for a variety of reasons and some guys simply aren't built for this new cfb world. Maybe he's one?
He's never liked recruiting but it's not like OSU will ask him to avoid it. The program had seemed to hit a peak a bit back and maybe he didn't feel like trying to get over that hill? It's baffling.
At best he'd be doing and short-term career renovation job here. If he succeeds he'll be called back to the NFL by someone. If he fails here he'll only be an anchor on the program for 2-3 years, dooming the 1st time HC and football program back to mediocrity. No risk.
Seems like a shitty fit to me but if you're a 1st time HC with no contacts of your own to tap into I guess you have to pick someone that once coached defense with The Ravens. If Cullen denied you, you're down to Wink because John is certainly done handing over his super-secret, defensive boy-genius dudes with Jim gone. He don't like Michigan THAT much lol.
He coordinated 2 legitimately good defenses with The Ravens and was LB coach for a bit before that with The Ravens.
He then had a mediocre year coordinating a Ravens defense.
Did I mention he was a defensive coach at the Ravens at one point? Oh, he also coached defense with the Baltimore Ravens at one point so he has that.
He didn't get along with anyone with the NYG and his defenses were dogshit but before his stint in New York he was a coordinator with The Ravens so there are only so many guys in that lineage to pick from. He may be the worst option of them all and a terrible fit but he used to be at the Baltimore Ravens.
My guess is Josh Henschke jumped the gun based on little more than that Athletic article from the KC reporter.
Wink isn't interviewing with Dallas as of this moment, he seems to be interviewing with Michigan tomorrow and Cullen has informed people that he will be staying in The NFL. From that I'm guessing Webb is just doing the math.
Short of another candidate popping up all the sudden, assume it's Wink.
Dude has been sober for almost 2 decades. If a person isn't allowed to change for the better we're all a lost cause and may as well give up on life now as we bathe in public mockery.
His incidents from forever ago will be the very last thought or concern I have regarding the hire if it's him.
Leipold is a fantastic coach. Fisch seems to be cooking, too. I can name many more with much more proven backgrounds than Moore. It was not Deboer/Lanning or bust. That thinking is very wrong.
You hired Moore mainly for stability and I totally understood that. Who doesn't want to keep the train rolling as near to identically as possible off of a National Championship team? He retains as much of the players and staff as possible, unlike a new hire. The trade off you'd make for getting a more proven coach was high numbered and/or highly damaging turnover. Moore was hired to mitigate that and early returns are not great.
There has already been quite a bit of smoke around 4 guys that Michigan cannot afford to lose and remain competitive at the position. All 4 of those guys would be directly impacted by Elston and Clink leaving, making a potential move much more likely for all of them.
So, if you were going to suffer massive change anyway...why not hire a proven coach? That's the issue. I agreed with Moore so it would be a quick and easy transition. I would not have agreed if I knew he'd have to hire an entirely new staff and possibly lose the a few of the best players on defense. If that was gonna happen, go hire a proven HC.
I've been as supportive of Jim as one could be but it's starting to come off as a vendetta more than building the best staff he can for his new team. If Webb is saying they're being heavily pursued and "gone unless something changes quick", they're gone.
It's The NFL, Jim. Call any DB coach or DL coach in CFB and they'll take the job. Call many NFL position coaches and they'll take the job if you offer just a bit more money.
Frankly, if the point of the Moore hire was continuity and stability of the good thing you have going...and you still got none of that after hiring him...what was the point of avoiding a national HC search? I liked the Moore hire for continuity purposes and never pretended he was the best HC Michigan could hire even that late in the schedule/process. It was a young guy who maybe could be very good but we'd almost certainly have to accept some growing pains alleviated a bit by a team that retained most coaches and key players from a NC winning squad. If everything changes anyway, what was the point?
And Warde being a fucking stooge goes without saying. Absolutely punked by Jim and maybe deservedly so based on word of their relationship.
He is an elite coach and program head that had a good team and staff. He was also largely checked-out and jaded with the job here. Both can be true and based on a lot of word inside the program absolutely is.
You don't actively seek to leave a place multiple times if you're content at that place. He wants a Super Bowl and was very, very ready to be out of the job as HC of Michigan.
But I'd always take checked-out Jim with the recent results ha. I just don't want the dude to live an unhappy existence just to placate what I want.
It's bizarre seeing him be Jim in those colors and even a bit sad but the way I've been trying to get people to move on and understand it is pointing out a couple obvious truths.
First, he absolutely wanted another crack at a Super Bowl and this was true since the day we hired him. He was always on loan and IMHO, had he found the current success he had earlier he would have left earlier. If the 21-23 run had been closer to the norm since he arrived, he wouldn't have made it to 2020.
Second, I don't think it takes an expert in body language or intuition to see a guy that was fairly miserable in the last year here. He loved the players and all that but he just seemed checked-out most of the time after the 2020 season. I really, really think the contract restructure and the NCAA stuff killed his desire to be here. I don't think it was "Michigan" per se but everything that became associated with it in his mind *outside of the players and staff*.
It sometimes makes me think that if Jim was given total control over the program - even above the AD from day one - he may have been a lifer here. Yet, I don't think that even that would have done it when I consider the first point above. Having an AD that basically shit on him unnecessarily hurt those chances in the worst way but even if he was given everything he wanted by Michigsn from day one I think his goal was always to right the ship here and go back to The NFL.
And who can blame him? That's probably point #3. Who can blame him in the current CFB climate? I'd choose The NFL over 2024 CFB if I had the choice. So the question becomes one of how much he really means the nice things he said yesterday. Does he really think Moore is ready? Is he really feeling zero desire to stick it to Warde and UM a bit right now. How and in what way beyond softening the blow are The Chargers and Michigan "one team"? And so on...
Beyond that, it stings and it's odd to see but I wish him well as it seems like he needed this change. He's back to looking and sounding like the guy we hired, IMO. The words are the same but he appears to have a weight off his shoulders that I don't think is very hard to notice.
It's not a fear thing. The other poster that relied to you covered most of it but from a football competition aspect it's exactly what I said. It's a program that's going to hoover-up talent with the exception that they seem to value some things that the OSU & USCs don't. Lanning seems to get that you can be explosive but need to be able to crack skulls, too. Again, he's an SEC guy at heart.
They simply add the most danger to us from a football program while bringing little else to the table beyond that. At least the California schools open up the California footprint and aren't slouches academically. Oregon is just almost literally Nike University sitting in the northwest that only brings issues for us haha. There is no benefit I can think of off hand. Not a fan of it.
I'm actually not a fan of any of it but I at least get wanting to add USC. Of course you add USC if they want in. Same for UCLA and Washington. I hated the Oregon addition. Would have preferred another 4th, probably Stanford or Cal.
Massively positive news. He and the offense have been the engine of that team. Pair it with a functional defense and you can not only get back but win a title with the young talent they've collected.
I absolutely assumed he was gone in the same way I just knew Minter was gone after the NCG. It wasn't even really all that possible to me that either team would retain those guys.
Johnson coming back is really surprising in the best way to me.
I was never a fan of bringing in Oregon at all. You want to add Nike University to your schedule in the dawning age of NIL? A school with a young, SEC-taught coach that's on the West coast with unlimited resources and desire to spend them? Never liked it. I disliked that one more than the other P12 schools by a lot. USC concerns me less than what Oregon is going to become in the next 4 years.
He and his dad REALLY liked Herbert. IIRC, Bair wants to work in that field and they really liked a guy that just left to follow our old HC...and that coach's son who is also likely leaving and a main contact of Bair's to UM.
Also, he had ample opportunity to commit and never did. He watched us win a title and not even that was enough. If Jim and Co stayed, he likely chooses UM but even then I'm not so sure.
It likely has more to do with those things than NIL for a kid that won't even step on a campus for two years.
This. It's so insane. Had he brought the kicker out and those kicks were missed they'd all be saying he turtled and he's a pussy. They'd be saying the exact opposite shit instead of not raging out and using nonsense arguments for how it happened when the actual reasons are staring them in the face. They watched them live. From the drops to the fumble to the CB using his head as a backboard for the WR to do a tomahawk dunk off of.
The offense that was the 2023 Detroit Lions went cold after coming out hot. Got tight after coming out loose. Etc. Dan sucks or blew it despite not sucking or blowing it enough to take a 17pt lead into the half. What changed? Either he suddenly started to suck and go stupid...or...the offense imploded.
I'm going with what I watched live and I watched a veteran WR drop the two biggest passes of his life. I watched an amazing rookie RB both run the wrong play and then fumble on that very same play. I watched another amazing rookie that's a TE drop a ball he caught all year. I watched Williams let a TD sail through his arms. I watched Goff miss throws and reads he hadn't done all year.
It was collective. When your offense breaks down and your defense is made of toothpicks and bubblegum, you lose games even when you looked really good before breaking down.
The result and decision are only added based on what is claimed and desired. We're all about to go Schrodinger over a call that WAS. NOT.BAD
Again, the point is that you cannot assume the FG is made and everyone is. The odds of a FG from that distance vs a 2 yard conversion on 4th are essentially even.
He chose to go for the dagger, the kill shot and it worked...until the ball was dropped. They didn't run some BS that left everyone scratching their heads. It was open, hit the WR in his hands and he dropped it.
So in hindsight everyone wanted the FG that, again, also isn't a guarantee. Had he caught it like he does the vast percentage of the time everyone loves it. It's ballsy, gritty, tough and whatever.
The offense was cooking. The same people bitch when the offense is rolling and their team takes their foot off the pedal. "Ya know, kicking it there instead of getting 2 yards is what lost us that game".
Their team lost so everyone needs to blame something rather than look at it as it was and is. We can talk about a cat in a box if we want but it's easier to say that a coach saw his offense cooking, trusted them to get 2 yards, wanted to slit SF's throat and they had the right play dialed up...only for a WR to drop a pass he grabs in his sleep.
It is what it is. This isn't some egregious coaching blunder of a game. The offense that carried this team all year fell apart, the defense had no hope of stopping SF once they got rolling and here we are. It really is that simple.
No, you have a go call (Reynolds drop), the run before that by ASB and the run with under a minute.
Dan's job is saying go or not. That's it.
In order that they happened:
1. Dan tells Ben he has two plays to get 5 yards rather than kick a FG. Ben calls the ASB inside run for 3 yards.
2. Ben then calls the throw that is about as open as any NFL coach, OC, QB and WR could want and Reynolds drops a ball that is in his hands.
3. Ben calls a run on 3rd down with under a minute. (I agree that the earlier FG attempt may have been a better idea but it's tough either way asking for a 3&out, going the distance with no TOs or a turnover vs the onside odds).
The call to go is on Dan and it worked, short of a bad drop. Read it again: it worked, short of a bad drop. Accept that fact and that the FG is not guaranteed either.
The plays are called by Ben. The beef here, if any is to be had, is with Ben and a WR that dropped the two most important passes of his career.
I'm totally with you on the psychological aspects of the game...and it works against you as much as it works for you here.
If Reynolds catches a ball that he catches the vast majority of the time, it's a dagger. Time keeps bleeding and then it ends in the FG you so coveted or a TD that may have iced the game.
In your argument you keep insisting the insinuation that the hypothetical FG attempt was always going to be made and Reynolds was always going to drop it. Again, you're playing Captain Hindsight.
The right call was made by Campbell. Johnson dialed up the right call. Josh Reynolds dropped a ball that hit him in the hands. If he doesn't drop it, that probably pushes the win probably above 95%. He dropped it. Give him that throw 100 times and I guarantee he catches it 95 times. He dropped this one.
You're trying to argue from a really bad position despite my total agreement that emotion and the mental aspects are incredibly underrated in the sport.
Agree. Nuts feel kicked but it was a wild ride. Gotta grow, try to replace Johnson and get that defense up to par.
Best Lions year of...maybe my life. Yeah, officially in my life. I remember the Washington NFC Championship game in 91 as a kid and it wasn't even competitive.
I don't necessarily think that's true but even if so the actual odds favor going 3 & under more than a 48 yard FG by any kicker.
It's weird how so many people in their rage and pain fall back to points that are totally dismissed, debunked and nonsense.
"He's a dumb meathead"
Until it works and then you love him.
"He shouldn't have gone there"
No, Reynolds should have dropped a pass he catches 95% of the time.
"Well, then they should have had a kicker"
Yeah, that's how it works and every team wants one. Join the club.
The offense shit the bed in the 2nd half after dominating the 1st half. He trusted them as he had all year. The offense is why they were playing today! His style is why they were playing today and if not for mistakes that rarely occurred all year you're singing his praises instead of the BS you and others are spouting. Be sad and upset! I feel like my nuts have been kicked, too. Just don't be an irrational baby about it.
You listed a bunch of stuff that's on Johnson. Nothing listed that would be Campbell's decision was bad or wrong. The play used was either not ideal or was ideal and a player messed up.
I'm not a total Campbell apologist or anything. It's just an annoying when people play Captain Hindsight with decisions that weren't bad. He didn't go for it at his own 25 while up 17pts. He didn't dake a punt from his own 30 on 4th and 15. He didn't...whatever. He has done similar things before and none of that happened tonight.
His team was a touchdown underdog and dominated the first half. He let them cook...and they collectively pissed in the soup in the 2nd half.
The head coach trusts his offense to grab 2-3 yards more than he trusts his journeyman kicker from 48 yarda in an outdoor stadium when almost every XP snap was bad as is.
Why? It worked all year. It worked here, too. Reynolds drops a ball and Goff both misses an open man and later has his pass tipped that's going to an open ASB.
"Mark my words fellas, when the best OC on the history of modern Lions football leaves for a HC job...the offense will be worse. Mark my words."
Your takes every Sunday are wild, man. Yes, I also predict the offense will be worse next year. It's a bandwagon now. Let's go nuts.
The difference will be whether they can become an actual team and get that defense shored up. Need a kicker they trust and a defense that doesn't play like they are fielding 7 dudes each series. That will make or break Campbell more than the obvious drop in offense that will come.
It was just a total implosion in the 2nd half. Reynolds drops that 4th down pass at the 30-ish and it was a free fall from there. They collectively never gained their confidence back as mistake after mistake piled up behind it. That's football sometimes.
The takes in here are psychotic. A heavily offensive-led team had their offense fall apart in the 2nd half. Period. The defense is and always was bad. I'd go so far as to say awful in the secondary. Bad-bad. Not good. Almost every win was a case of the offense carrying the team on it's shoulders and then types of calls made today are why The Lions got here.
The initial failed 4th down conversion is on Reynolds. He's a veteran NFL WR on the biggest stage his team had been on in 30+ years. He drops a catch he makes 95% of the time. He then later drops a crucial 3rd down pass that hits him in the numbers for a 1st down when Detroit desperately needed to claw some momentum back. You can't assume that happens as a coach.
The other 4th down is one I'd call 50/50 but I think he knows what his team is and isn't. He knew they weren't getting another stop. Period. SF was rolling at that point.
You can't account for Gibbs fumbling. You can't account for Laporta dropping one he catches 95% of the time. You can't account for a CB having the ball go through his hands, off his helmet and into the arms of a SF WR. Those later decisions come from those kind of events that you cannot control or assume will happen when it has almost never happened all year.
The biggest thing I question is whether they should have kicked a FG earlier in that last posession when they still had all of their timeouts. Though, that still puts you in a bind even on the rare chance you get a 3 & Out. You're really hoping for a turnover there and what are the odds you force either against the odds of recovering an onside kick? Odds you hold 3&out while scoring a TD with no TOs left, force a turnover vs recovery of an onside? So even that I'm not totally up in arms about.
The offense simply imploded after a first half of being what we saw most of the year. The offense was confident, electric and in total control...until that Reynolds drop. The defense was always assumed to give up yards at will and pray for some FG holds. The offense finally sputtered out against a very good SF team. It's that simple. It wasn't some egregiously called game. It was what got them here and each time it was there and the players didn't make the play. All year they did, in the 2nd half they didn't. It sucks but people wanting to play Captain Hindsight are ridiculous.
You can allow 3 and you need no less than 2min left if you do, obviously.
As for the no FG, I don't hate it but I felt the team needed something...anything...to get back in it mentally. FG was the safe call but they didn't get here by being that kind of team. You cannot count on the things failing that failed (beyond the secondary).
Falling apart across the board after a first half where they looked like they were totally in control. It shows how much of the game is about mentality, mainly the belief. A small hiccup can lead to a total collapse. Great teams use tiny changes in the game to surge ahead. It's wild.
Offense can't stall. The defense is what it is, they're gonna allow points like that. As it has been all year, the offense has to go win it by matching whatever SF just did.
Recent Comments
He struggled in the places we watched him struggle at UM and was terrific in the places we watched him be terrific at. His evals seem pretty accurate.
His most inconsistent throw remains the short-intermediate out. He tends to sail it or put it at the WRs feet. His deep ball still needs work. That said, he's throwing to guys he has never thrown to before so it's a little wonky for most QBs at The Combine. He'll do better at his pro day.
I maintain that he needs to go to a spot where he can sit for a year or two but it's looking more and more like a team may decide to take him as their franchise QB. If so, I hope it's staff and system that can help him early.
I keep having to repeat this to people. Michigan won the last title when it still resembled the game we all grew up loving. They also won the last version of The Game that is truly THE GAME. From here out they'll just meet again in a week every 2-3 years and then maybe again in the playoffs.
No matter what happens going forward with the game itself or NCAA, that remains true and it's awesome.
Oh, that's the point. They can't go that high. The Supreme Court with a right majority (but even if it didn't) cannot wait to kill them. So they have to fight these battles with the weirdos that get appointed to the levels that you just give political favors to. So anyone appointed from the deep South is like the sports loving cousin of a pool installer that donated a bunch of money.
The NCAA can't go up because they 100% lose. They have to wade in this level of court and try to win there when those are also lost causes for much more direct, fandom associated reasons. It's very funny due to who The NCAA is and how much they deserve to die.
Not at all a political post, more of a comedic twist that borders on irony:
Whenever you're dealing with courts at this level you're dealing with politics and the one entity The NCAA would most count on to help them by way of employee/labor stunting is also the entity that has it's base in the Southeast where nothing means more than CFB. The people you're counting on to save you in what amounts to a labor battle are the very people that would kill their entire family to beat their rival and have been punished at some point by The NCAA for doing all they could to help make it so.
"Help us keep the labor from profiting...but also ignore that we want to actively try to keep your favorite team from being as good as they can be, to the point that we'll punish you if you do something we don't like that's often based on our whims"
It's a lose-lose for The NCAA. It would be tough enough to win this battle with judges that care about Stanford, Northwestern, etc. Eventually you'll be dealing with deep South judges that are wearing Bama and LSU shirts under their robes. Good luck, NCAA.
It's why you fight them. Always. Eventually you'll get a judge that spends their Saturday watching CFB. You'll win.
Michigan isn't clear. Though, they seem to be asking member universities to kill them with this kind of stuff so we'll see what happens.
It seemed a bad sign when he was trying to stay in the league long after it was clear he wasn't good enough anymore.
That's usually done because the player really needs that contract or has some record he wants to break.
If this email is…
Bingo.
If this email is real it's basically a celebratory admission.
Like I said before, one of the only people I care to get info from and trust implicitly insists that "the calls were coming from inside the house". That's as far as they'd go on to say specifically.
The way I read them - and it's a lot of assumption admittedly - is that the very factioned University, Alumni Groups and AD did battle behind the scenes and an asshole like Stapleton won. Whatever group or faction he belongs to won and many claim his faction desires the dumbest, worst shit for UM Football because he felt slighted by Harbaugh. That part I'll have to trust others on as I don't know him but if that email is real this is basically a "got em" post by Stapleton.
Again, if it's real.
The initial rumor a while back said the teams would wear the colors of UM and OSU. Not sure if it's true but it was leaked before the game was even made official, AFAIK.
Heard a few weeks ago that Detroit will wear UM-based gear (colors only) and Columbus will do the same for OSU. Which is an odd reversal but could be neat.
That's what he said publicly. Some recruits can tell you more. Ask Sam about those things haha
Yes, solid recruiter and debatable coach. Not that it should remove him from contention but he also heavily talked shit and negatively recruited Michigan after he left. Was beyond Frames tor a while and that's saying something.
Very unintentionally comedic timing on this. "He loves Clink and doesn't care much for NIL so we have a shot"
5 seconds after posting
*CLINK GONE*
It's a rehab job for him, like Wink. Succeed and they take the first major NFL job they can get.
Sure but they've had the better program in that period, especially the last 20 years. It's due to how they run their program across the board.
Same amount of titles over 30 years but they've played for, what, 3 others? I also don't see any 3-9 years or weirdo factions constantly kicking their own dicks at the top.
Definitely more talent than he had coming back to UCLA and he wants to be in The NFL again. I think it's a similar rehab project as Wink but it's weird because he was a current head coach at a major program. He was on a very short leash and checked out mentally on the job months ago but he was technically the head coach haha.
I think he was willing to trade the money for a chance to work with a guy he knows, with a ton of talent and if he succeeds he takes the first NFL interest he gets.
They don't fuck around at the top. They tend to all be rowing on unison and willing to play "big boy cfb". They've been seen as SEC North for two decades for a reason.
Michigan and many other blue bloods have so much infighting and factions that it ultimately hurts them eventually. OSU tends to just want to win, with little regard for whether you love Woody or played for him or whatever. It helps but they don't really care.
Not sure his contract details at MSU but he 100% would have taken the UCLA job over MSU if he knew it would open up.
He chose MSU because it was the best available job at a time his stock was high and he was looking to bail on his alma mater to avoid the Pac2 mess. If UCLA was also open he doesn't even think twice about it.
I think that's been a focus for OSU this offseason.
I think he just got sick of being a program leader. A lot of people around the program have wanted him out for a variety of reasons and some guys simply aren't built for this new cfb world. Maybe he's one?
He's never liked recruiting but it's not like OSU will ask him to avoid it. The program had seemed to hit a peak a bit back and maybe he didn't feel like trying to get over that hill? It's baffling.
At best he'd be doing and short-term career renovation job here. If he succeeds he'll be called back to the NFL by someone. If he fails here he'll only be an anchor on the program for 2-3 years, dooming the 1st time HC and football program back to mediocrity. No risk.
Seems like a shitty fit to me but if you're a 1st time HC with no contacts of your own to tap into I guess you have to pick someone that once coached defense with The Ravens. If Cullen denied you, you're down to Wink because John is certainly done handing over his super-secret, defensive boy-genius dudes with Jim gone. He don't like Michigan THAT much lol.
He coordinated 2 legitimately good defenses with The Ravens and was LB coach for a bit before that with The Ravens.
He then had a mediocre year coordinating a Ravens defense.
Did I mention he was a defensive coach at the Ravens at one point? Oh, he also coached defense with the Baltimore Ravens at one point so he has that.
He didn't get along with anyone with the NYG and his defenses were dogshit but before his stint in New York he was a coordinator with The Ravens so there are only so many guys in that lineage to pick from. He may be the worst option of them all and a terrible fit but he used to be at the Baltimore Ravens.
I'd also be less than enthused.
My guess is Josh Henschke jumped the gun based on little more than that Athletic article from the KC reporter.
Wink isn't interviewing with Dallas as of this moment, he seems to be interviewing with Michigan tomorrow and Cullen has informed people that he will be staying in The NFL. From that I'm guessing Webb is just doing the math.
Short of another candidate popping up all the sudden, assume it's Wink.
Doesn't seem to be scheduled as of right now.
If Webb seems certain or confident, I'll assume he's right.
Dude has been sober for almost 2 decades. If a person isn't allowed to change for the better we're all a lost cause and may as well give up on life now as we bathe in public mockery.
His incidents from forever ago will be the very last thought or concern I have regarding the hire if it's him.
Leipold is a fantastic coach. Fisch seems to be cooking, too. I can name many more with much more proven backgrounds than Moore. It was not Deboer/Lanning or bust. That thinking is very wrong.
You hired Moore mainly for stability and I totally understood that. Who doesn't want to keep the train rolling as near to identically as possible off of a National Championship team? He retains as much of the players and staff as possible, unlike a new hire. The trade off you'd make for getting a more proven coach was high numbered and/or highly damaging turnover. Moore was hired to mitigate that and early returns are not great.
There has already been quite a bit of smoke around 4 guys that Michigan cannot afford to lose and remain competitive at the position. All 4 of those guys would be directly impacted by Elston and Clink leaving, making a potential move much more likely for all of them.
So, if you were going to suffer massive change anyway...why not hire a proven coach? That's the issue. I agreed with Moore so it would be a quick and easy transition. I would not have agreed if I knew he'd have to hire an entirely new staff and possibly lose the a few of the best players on defense. If that was gonna happen, go hire a proven HC.
I've been as supportive of Jim as one could be but it's starting to come off as a vendetta more than building the best staff he can for his new team. If Webb is saying they're being heavily pursued and "gone unless something changes quick", they're gone.
It's The NFL, Jim. Call any DB coach or DL coach in CFB and they'll take the job. Call many NFL position coaches and they'll take the job if you offer just a bit more money.
Frankly, if the point of the Moore hire was continuity and stability of the good thing you have going...and you still got none of that after hiring him...what was the point of avoiding a national HC search? I liked the Moore hire for continuity purposes and never pretended he was the best HC Michigan could hire even that late in the schedule/process. It was a young guy who maybe could be very good but we'd almost certainly have to accept some growing pains alleviated a bit by a team that retained most coaches and key players from a NC winning squad. If everything changes anyway, what was the point?
And Warde being a fucking stooge goes without saying. Absolutely punked by Jim and maybe deservedly so based on word of their relationship.
He is an elite coach and program head that had a good team and staff. He was also largely checked-out and jaded with the job here. Both can be true and based on a lot of word inside the program absolutely is.
You don't actively seek to leave a place multiple times if you're content at that place. He wants a Super Bowl and was very, very ready to be out of the job as HC of Michigan.
But I'd always take checked-out Jim with the recent results ha. I just don't want the dude to live an unhappy existence just to placate what I want.
It's bizarre seeing him be Jim in those colors and even a bit sad but the way I've been trying to get people to move on and understand it is pointing out a couple obvious truths.
First, he absolutely wanted another crack at a Super Bowl and this was true since the day we hired him. He was always on loan and IMHO, had he found the current success he had earlier he would have left earlier. If the 21-23 run had been closer to the norm since he arrived, he wouldn't have made it to 2020.
Second, I don't think it takes an expert in body language or intuition to see a guy that was fairly miserable in the last year here. He loved the players and all that but he just seemed checked-out most of the time after the 2020 season. I really, really think the contract restructure and the NCAA stuff killed his desire to be here. I don't think it was "Michigan" per se but everything that became associated with it in his mind *outside of the players and staff*.
It sometimes makes me think that if Jim was given total control over the program - even above the AD from day one - he may have been a lifer here. Yet, I don't think that even that would have done it when I consider the first point above. Having an AD that basically shit on him unnecessarily hurt those chances in the worst way but even if he was given everything he wanted by Michigsn from day one I think his goal was always to right the ship here and go back to The NFL.
And who can blame him? That's probably point #3. Who can blame him in the current CFB climate? I'd choose The NFL over 2024 CFB if I had the choice. So the question becomes one of how much he really means the nice things he said yesterday. Does he really think Moore is ready? Is he really feeling zero desire to stick it to Warde and UM a bit right now. How and in what way beyond softening the blow are The Chargers and Michigan "one team"? And so on...
Beyond that, it stings and it's odd to see but I wish him well as it seems like he needed this change. He's back to looking and sounding like the guy we hired, IMO. The words are the same but he appears to have a weight off his shoulders that I don't think is very hard to notice.
It's not a fear thing. The other poster that relied to you covered most of it but from a football competition aspect it's exactly what I said. It's a program that's going to hoover-up talent with the exception that they seem to value some things that the OSU & USCs don't. Lanning seems to get that you can be explosive but need to be able to crack skulls, too. Again, he's an SEC guy at heart.
They simply add the most danger to us from a football program while bringing little else to the table beyond that. At least the California schools open up the California footprint and aren't slouches academically. Oregon is just almost literally Nike University sitting in the northwest that only brings issues for us haha. There is no benefit I can think of off hand. Not a fan of it.
I'm actually not a fan of any of it but I at least get wanting to add USC. Of course you add USC if they want in. Same for UCLA and Washington. I hated the Oregon addition. Would have preferred another 4th, probably Stanford or Cal.
Massively positive news. He and the offense have been the engine of that team. Pair it with a functional defense and you can not only get back but win a title with the young talent they've collected.
I absolutely assumed he was gone in the same way I just knew Minter was gone after the NCG. It wasn't even really all that possible to me that either team would retain those guys.
Johnson coming back is really surprising in the best way to me.
I was never a fan of bringing in Oregon at all. You want to add Nike University to your schedule in the dawning age of NIL? A school with a young, SEC-taught coach that's on the West coast with unlimited resources and desire to spend them? Never liked it. I disliked that one more than the other P12 schools by a lot. USC concerns me less than what Oregon is going to become in the next 4 years.
He and his dad REALLY liked Herbert. IIRC, Bair wants to work in that field and they really liked a guy that just left to follow our old HC...and that coach's son who is also likely leaving and a main contact of Bair's to UM.
Also, he had ample opportunity to commit and never did. He watched us win a title and not even that was enough. If Jim and Co stayed, he likely chooses UM but even then I'm not so sure.
It likely has more to do with those things than NIL for a kid that won't even step on a campus for two years.
This. It's so insane. Had he brought the kicker out and those kicks were missed they'd all be saying he turtled and he's a pussy. They'd be saying the exact opposite shit instead of not raging out and using nonsense arguments for how it happened when the actual reasons are staring them in the face. They watched them live. From the drops to the fumble to the CB using his head as a backboard for the WR to do a tomahawk dunk off of.
The offense that was the 2023 Detroit Lions went cold after coming out hot. Got tight after coming out loose. Etc. Dan sucks or blew it despite not sucking or blowing it enough to take a 17pt lead into the half. What changed? Either he suddenly started to suck and go stupid...or...the offense imploded.
I'm going with what I watched live and I watched a veteran WR drop the two biggest passes of his life. I watched an amazing rookie RB both run the wrong play and then fumble on that very same play. I watched another amazing rookie that's a TE drop a ball he caught all year. I watched Williams let a TD sail through his arms. I watched Goff miss throws and reads he hadn't done all year.
It was collective. When your offense breaks down and your defense is made of toothpicks and bubblegum, you lose games even when you looked really good before breaking down.
The result and decision are only added based on what is claimed and desired. We're all about to go Schrodinger over a call that WAS. NOT.BAD
Again, the point is that you cannot assume the FG is made and everyone is. The odds of a FG from that distance vs a 2 yard conversion on 4th are essentially even.
He chose to go for the dagger, the kill shot and it worked...until the ball was dropped. They didn't run some BS that left everyone scratching their heads. It was open, hit the WR in his hands and he dropped it.
So in hindsight everyone wanted the FG that, again, also isn't a guarantee. Had he caught it like he does the vast percentage of the time everyone loves it. It's ballsy, gritty, tough and whatever.
The offense was cooking. The same people bitch when the offense is rolling and their team takes their foot off the pedal. "Ya know, kicking it there instead of getting 2 yards is what lost us that game".
Their team lost so everyone needs to blame something rather than look at it as it was and is. We can talk about a cat in a box if we want but it's easier to say that a coach saw his offense cooking, trusted them to get 2 yards, wanted to slit SF's throat and they had the right play dialed up...only for a WR to drop a pass he grabs in his sleep.
It is what it is. This isn't some egregious coaching blunder of a game. The offense that carried this team all year fell apart, the defense had no hope of stopping SF once they got rolling and here we are. It really is that simple.
No, you have a go call (Reynolds drop), the run before that by ASB and the run with under a minute.
Dan's job is saying go or not. That's it.
In order that they happened:
1. Dan tells Ben he has two plays to get 5 yards rather than kick a FG. Ben calls the ASB inside run for 3 yards.
2. Ben then calls the throw that is about as open as any NFL coach, OC, QB and WR could want and Reynolds drops a ball that is in his hands.
3. Ben calls a run on 3rd down with under a minute. (I agree that the earlier FG attempt may have been a better idea but it's tough either way asking for a 3&out, going the distance with no TOs or a turnover vs the onside odds).
The call to go is on Dan and it worked, short of a bad drop. Read it again: it worked, short of a bad drop. Accept that fact and that the FG is not guaranteed either.
The plays are called by Ben. The beef here, if any is to be had, is with Ben and a WR that dropped the two most important passes of his career.
I'm totally with you on the psychological aspects of the game...and it works against you as much as it works for you here.
If Reynolds catches a ball that he catches the vast majority of the time, it's a dagger. Time keeps bleeding and then it ends in the FG you so coveted or a TD that may have iced the game.
In your argument you keep insisting the insinuation that the hypothetical FG attempt was always going to be made and Reynolds was always going to drop it. Again, you're playing Captain Hindsight.
The right call was made by Campbell. Johnson dialed up the right call. Josh Reynolds dropped a ball that hit him in the hands. If he doesn't drop it, that probably pushes the win probably above 95%. He dropped it. Give him that throw 100 times and I guarantee he catches it 95 times. He dropped this one.
You're trying to argue from a really bad position despite my total agreement that emotion and the mental aspects are incredibly underrated in the sport.
Agree. Nuts feel kicked but it was a wild ride. Gotta grow, try to replace Johnson and get that defense up to par.
Best Lions year of...maybe my life. Yeah, officially in my life. I remember the Washington NFC Championship game in 91 as a kid and it wasn't even competitive.
I don't necessarily think that's true but even if so the actual odds favor going 3 & under more than a 48 yard FG by any kicker.
It's weird how so many people in their rage and pain fall back to points that are totally dismissed, debunked and nonsense.
"He's a dumb meathead"
Until it works and then you love him.
"He shouldn't have gone there"
No, Reynolds should have dropped a pass he catches 95% of the time.
"Well, then they should have had a kicker"
Yeah, that's how it works and every team wants one. Join the club.
The offense shit the bed in the 2nd half after dominating the 1st half. He trusted them as he had all year. The offense is why they were playing today! His style is why they were playing today and if not for mistakes that rarely occurred all year you're singing his praises instead of the BS you and others are spouting. Be sad and upset! I feel like my nuts have been kicked, too. Just don't be an irrational baby about it.
You listed a bunch of stuff that's on Johnson. Nothing listed that would be Campbell's decision was bad or wrong. The play used was either not ideal or was ideal and a player messed up.
I'm not a total Campbell apologist or anything. It's just an annoying when people play Captain Hindsight with decisions that weren't bad. He didn't go for it at his own 25 while up 17pts. He didn't dake a punt from his own 30 on 4th and 15. He didn't...whatever. He has done similar things before and none of that happened tonight.
His team was a touchdown underdog and dominated the first half. He let them cook...and they collectively pissed in the soup in the 2nd half.
The head…
It's very simple:
The head coach trusts his offense to grab 2-3 yards more than he trusts his journeyman kicker from 48 yarda in an outdoor stadium when almost every XP snap was bad as is.
Why? It worked all year. It worked here, too. Reynolds drops a ball and Goff both misses an open man and later has his pass tipped that's going to an open ASB.
The calls weren't the issue.
Real ballsy prediction there, man.
"Mark my words fellas, when the best OC on the history of modern Lions football leaves for a HC job...the offense will be worse. Mark my words."
Your takes every Sunday are wild, man. Yes, I also predict the offense will be worse next year. It's a bandwagon now. Let's go nuts.
The difference will be whether they can become an actual team and get that defense shored up. Need a kicker they trust and a defense that doesn't play like they are fielding 7 dudes each series. That will make or break Campbell more than the obvious drop in offense that will come.
It was just a total implosion in the 2nd half. Reynolds drops that 4th down pass at the 30-ish and it was a free fall from there. They collectively never gained their confidence back as mistake after mistake piled up behind it. That's football sometimes.
The takes in here are psychotic. A heavily offensive-led team had their offense fall apart in the 2nd half. Period. The defense is and always was bad. I'd go so far as to say awful in the secondary. Bad-bad. Not good. Almost every win was a case of the offense carrying the team on it's shoulders and then types of calls made today are why The Lions got here.
The initial failed 4th down conversion is on Reynolds. He's a veteran NFL WR on the biggest stage his team had been on in 30+ years. He drops a catch he makes 95% of the time. He then later drops a crucial 3rd down pass that hits him in the numbers for a 1st down when Detroit desperately needed to claw some momentum back. You can't assume that happens as a coach.
The other 4th down is one I'd call 50/50 but I think he knows what his team is and isn't. He knew they weren't getting another stop. Period. SF was rolling at that point.
You can't account for Gibbs fumbling. You can't account for Laporta dropping one he catches 95% of the time. You can't account for a CB having the ball go through his hands, off his helmet and into the arms of a SF WR. Those later decisions come from those kind of events that you cannot control or assume will happen when it has almost never happened all year.
The biggest thing I question is whether they should have kicked a FG earlier in that last posession when they still had all of their timeouts. Though, that still puts you in a bind even on the rare chance you get a 3 & Out. You're really hoping for a turnover there and what are the odds you force either against the odds of recovering an onside kick? Odds you hold 3&out while scoring a TD with no TOs left, force a turnover vs recovery of an onside? So even that I'm not totally up in arms about.
The offense simply imploded after a first half of being what we saw most of the year. The offense was confident, electric and in total control...until that Reynolds drop. The defense was always assumed to give up yards at will and pray for some FG holds. The offense finally sputtered out against a very good SF team. It's that simple. It wasn't some egregiously called game. It was what got them here and each time it was there and the players didn't make the play. All year they did, in the 2nd half they didn't. It sucks but people wanting to play Captain Hindsight are ridiculous.
You can allow 3 and you need no less than 2min left if you do, obviously.
As for the no FG, I don't hate it but I felt the team needed something...anything...to get back in it mentally. FG was the safe call but they didn't get here by being that kind of team. You cannot count on the things failing that failed (beyond the secondary).
Falling apart across the board after a first half where they looked like they were totally in control. It shows how much of the game is about mentality, mainly the belief. A small hiccup can lead to a total collapse. Great teams use tiny changes in the game to surge ahead. It's wild.
Reynolds dropping it and a practice squad level CB that let a ball bounce off his helmet are the bigger issue.
Had he kicked and missed the FG you bitch about how a 1st down leading to a score ends the game.
Fans playing captain hindsight are ridiculous.
Offense can't stall. The defense is what it is, they're gonna allow points like that. As it has been all year, the offense has to go win it by matching whatever SF just did.
That's my only issue with the call.
Dan wanted the kill shot that drive and I don't blame him.