Tigers Extend Al Avila
Why? For fielding a competitive AAA team in the Majors?
In one man's opinion, the Tigers are not interested in "rebuilding" and are content to coast on TV and MLB money as long as they can.
Can't wait for Detroit to have a professional baseball team again, one day, one day.....
Right after they get a pro football team.
What since 1968 gives you hope that the Lions will even be a competent organization?
In two generations, the best they have done is get their asses handed to them by Washington in the NFC Championship game -- 1 playoff win in all the time that anyone on this board has been alive. That kind of track record doesn't happen by accident or due to something like bad luck.
I never said the Lions.
Why is it that every professional Detroit sports franchise is loyal to a fault with their executives? We do not believe in giving up on a GM..
I wish they were more loyal to the executive (Dombroski) that was actually good instead of Chris Illitch's lovechild in Al Avila.
I don't think it's necessarily GMs. I think Detroit teams have an odd requirement that they need to bring back players they had ten years ago.
DD had to go. He wasnt the right guy to lead a rebuild. Great for what they hired him to do, but it was time to move on. Alex Avila isnt good at anything, so this is confusing.
Correct DD's niche is taking a team from mediocre to great. He does this by selling off their future assets for immediate success. Once the prospects are gone, and the ball club gets old, he leaves. He's done this more than once.
Joe Klein hired Sparky.
The rest is a blurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Jim Campbell hired Sparky.
Jim Campbell also once hired Billy Martin.
George Steinbrenner, on the other hand, hired and fired Billy 5 times.
What was so great about Dombrowski? He couldn't win it all with an open checkbook and he did nothing to develop the minor league system. Someone needs to scourge the scouting system that's produced an alarmingly poor amount of players over the past 20 years.
It's time for the Illitches to sell the team.
Dombrowski is a great GM because he took over a franchise that was historically bad one season into a WS contender in a few years. He managed to keep them relevant as a WS contender for years. What happened to the WS has nothing to do with his lack of GM skill since it's largely luck on if a team gets hot in the post-season or not. Dombrowski knew it was time to sell and the Illitch didn't like it so they fired him only for AA to take over to try to keep on winning games only to find out that the team is no longer good in which AA had to "tank" in order to replenish the farm system.
Dombrowski needed a top 5 payroll to win the worst division in baseball. Any other division and the Tigers only make the playoffs a few years during his reign. He consistently whiffs on high draft picks. He destroyed the Red Sox farm in one year and has one good sp to show for it. He is lucky the previous regime had guys like Betts, Boagarts, Devers, Benitendi already in place or they would be in the same situation as the Tigers. Although, DD, did avoid trading Devers so I guess he does get some credit for that. As it sits now they stand no chance of being better than the Yankees any time soon. In his career he has never drafted one impact bat. Castellanos was the closest. 20 years.
Not Dombrowski's fault that the Tigers were in a shitty division. The Tigers went to the WS twice, ALCS 4 times and 5 playoff appearance in 8 years as a GM in which 2 years were rebuilding years after taking over the worst team ever.
To trash Dombrowski is silly considering what he has done for the Tigers.
So, aside from signing the young stars to team-friendly contracts, picking up Price/Sale/Martinez on the free-agent market, and delivering a World Series title and a 110+ win season last year, what have the Romans -, I mean, Dombrowski, ever done for the Red Sox?
The young guys were already under team control. He had nothing to do with that. He extended Bogaerts but hardly to a team friendly deal.
Price is an average pitcher now making 30 million a year. Everyone wanted Sale but he was able to get him with the previous regime's prospects. Martinez was an obvious sign that every club would like but they don't have unlimited payroll like DD. Martinez was signed late because no one could afford what he was asking.
He has had 3 drafts with the Red Sox and doesn't have 1 top 100 prospect. He is good at dealing prospects to win now. He won one but has hindered the team's future. The way he GMs is going to be hard now. Teams are smarter than ever before and aren't letting guys get to free agency until after their prime. Unless they are Boras clients.
Because Detroit sports fans (myself included) are loyal to a fault.
Stop their cash flow and maybe things change.
”Even I would have fired me by now.” - Matt Millen
Who cares. The team won't commit to attempting to contend until after Cabrera's contract is up. Until then, he's a malcontent who can't produce and eats a ton of salary. Why throw additional cash on the fire to add anything valuable?
That's a rather long time to wait! His contract ends in 2023!
The Cincinnati Reds have a rather similar issue. Joey Votto is making tons of $$$ in a contract that runs through 2023, and his production is falling off as well (Joey's gap and long-ball power is quite diminished from his glory days). Plus, Votto is becoming a bit lazy and as a Reds fan I hear the occasional rumor about him being a clubhouse malcontent.
Yet, the Reds --- in a smaller market than Detroit, of course --- went through the rebuilding process in 2015-2018 and have put a pretty solid team together here in 2019.
Yes, I know their record is under .500 (41-44). But that's better than the Tigers' record and the Reds secondary stats (positive run differential, a pitching staff that is a clear-cut 2nd best in the National League behind the Dodgers) indicate a team that's better than their actual record and will be a legitimate playoff contender in the 2nd half of the season.
Anyway, all that is to say: the Tigers can't use the Cabrera excuse (EDITED to say "use this excuse all the way through 2023").
All due respect, terrible comparison. Tigers didn't pull the plug until 2017. That's when they traded Verlander and parted with Ausmus. Tigers have had two offseasons. Anybody expecting success this soon isn't being realistic. Dombrowski and Ilitch chased a ring for a decade, dishing prospects for hired guns year after year. They ran the payroll through the roof and the franchise is still trying to reset.
Hopefully someday they'll achieve the success of the friggin' Reds.
I don't think we are expecting success soon.
But, at this point in rebuilds, you can GENERALLY see some light at the end of the tunnel. You can see the kids start to show out a little bit, point to guys that can be stars for the future.
Honestly, I think this program still has a couple more seasons before they even hit rock bottom.
You're not looking at arms in Double-A then because that's exactly what happening.
And colleges have programs. Pro sports has organizations or franchises.
The light at the end of the tunnel is down on the farm. The Tigers should have a very good starting rotation next year or the year after. It might even have been pretty good this year if not for losing most it to injury.
To be fair to Avila, I've never seen worse injury luck than the Tigers had this year with their free agents.
At this point, a good Tigers GM would be one that spends money out of his own pocket.
Mr. Miggle:
I invite you to look at the record of the Tigers farm teams to date. It's BAD. We have two (count 'em, two) arms there seems no question about: Mize and Manning. Burrows, Faedo, Perez, Funkhouser...nothing at all certain there. As for the bats I have only one question: What bats??
And for this Avila gets an extension?
No question that the Tigers will have to trade some young pitchers for bats. If no one besides Mize and Manning develop, they're in trouble, but that's not a realistic expectation. Their farm system is the best it's been in a long time. It's ranked somewhere in the middle now.
I'm not commending Avila for the job he's done, just believe the Tigers will be better in a couple of years.
Dombrowski and Ilitch chased a ring but which of those prospects do you want back?
Eugenio Suarez. Traded him for future hall of famer Alfredo Simon.
Yeah but that was one of the few bad moves he made. The rest were positive for the tigers. Saurez is the exact type of player they need right now. Too bad. I hate watching former tigers play well elsewhere. McCann infuriates me and Sanchez makes me want to punch someone
blue95 was giving the Tigers a free pass until the end of 2023. That's what I was responding to.
Yes, the Tigers didn't hit the reset button until 2017. The Reds formally hit the reset button in late July 2015 with the trade of Johnny Cueto the Royals.
If you follow the same timeline, fans of the Tigers (who are my favorite AL team) should expect a competitive team by 2021. Even with the anchor of Miggy and his contract.
Not giving them a free pass, but I'm not going to get "online mad" about the Tigers.
It's the truth of the situation and is easy to see them going through four more years of mediocrity and rebuilding through the farm. I can't see them making any significant free agency moves and contending until Miggy is gone.
Miggy’s actually having a decent season. Power isn’t there anymore but he’s getting on base. Of course, he’s getting paid way more than his worth, but when they signed him to a long term contract in his early 30s, you knew that was going to happen. I think he’s been pretty professional considering he is past his peak, on a bad team, and knows he’s going to be on a bad team for the remainder of his contract. Could easily mail it in.
If you believe that Chris Illitch would be spending that $30 mil on this team if Miggy at his contract were suddenly gone then I got some ocean front property in Arizona.
I for one will not be making any trips to Comerica anytime in the near future. I can go to the local Whitecaps game with my son and see the same product and at a much cheaper cost.
Chris Ilitch is not going to spend money on the Tigers. Hockey is where he will concentrate, hopefully building the Wings back to contention.
Have to add that Gores is a horrible owner and the Pistons will flounder as long as he owns the team.
Wait... you're saying the Tigers' ownership is content with mediocrity (or less) and to simply continue reaping the financial benefits of lucrative television and league agreements? *nods in self-satisfaction* This confirms that I was correct to choose to support Newcastle United so many years ago. The only difference is that Newcastle could teach the Tigers a thing or two about how to go about this particular strategy while still giving the impression that there is some intent to compete.
What has Al Avila actually accomplished at this point that indicates the franchise is in good hands?
- Signing Jordan Zimmerman and Justin Upton?
- Trading JV and JD Martinez for average returns?
- Allowing Michael Fulmer's value to completely diminish?
- Hire a dinosaur manager in Ron Gardenhire?
- Spent almost zero money on international free agents?
I just don't understand why this move needed to be made now... Wait and see what Avila gets in return for Matthew Boyd and Shane Greene, see if he can turn Nicholas Castellanos into a decent return, and wait until September to get a better idea of some of the talent on the farm. If all the things above come back underwhelming, then you can start searching for a more talented GM to take over in 2020.
He sent Kate Upton to the Astros, that's what he did.
that alone is unforgivable.
Chris Ilitch will NOT spend money on the Tigers. His interests are in hockey and the Wings.
Tigers re-sign Avila. Wings hire Yzerman. One is different than the other.
The Tigers won't make hefty financial investments until the team is ready to contend again. But you can turn things around faster with intelligence, strategy, and resource allocation. For example, instead of spending 7.5 million on Tyson Ross and Matt Moore this offseason in the hopes of a deadline flip or a few more Ws, they could have used those funds to get in on the top, young international prospects. Instead, July 2 rolls around and the Tigers are nowhere to be found on the MLB's top 30 international prospects.
Spending money has little effect on competency, because only 7-8 teams out of 30 are actively spending money.
There's a $$$ cap on international prospects, and the guy they did get wasn't eligible for that list for some reason, but he is 29 on the fangraphs one (added him today).
Man, talk about hindsight being 20-20.
They got more for JV than anyone expected. The key piece in the trade has been injured nearly the whole time.
It will take a miracle worker to turn Castellanos into a decent return. The Tigers couldn't give him away.
I can't think of a better manager to work with a team of young players, many not quite ready for the majors.
JV has been a top 3 pitcher in baseball ever since he left the Tigers. The prospect haul the Tigers received for him pales in comparison to what the White Sox received for Sale or even Jose Quintana. You don’t hear Astros fans hurting about the prospects Houston gave up JV’s contract or saying he is overpaid. They won the trade easily.
I never said it would be easy, but at least have a plan to get a return for Castellanos, even if it’s only a compensatory draft pick after a qualifying offer. DD managed to unload Prince Fielder and his contract, so anything is possible.
Whats the best move Avila has made in his time here?
JV had 2/56 left on his deal, Sale had 3/37. So in surplus/contract value, Sale's contract was at least $40M more valuable than JV. And I don't think this was the plan, but trading JV then instead of waiting until the off-season led to getting the #1 overall pick.
The Quintana deal was outstanding for the White Sox, no doubt. Tho they also traded Tatis Jr. to the Padres for James Shields, lol.
The best trade AA made is either getting Paredes and Candelario for his son and Justin Wilson, or Willi Castro for Martin. Getting rid of the Upton contract was crucial too.
Tho honestly his best move was talking Mike I. out of signing Chris Davis.
LOL, you won't give up your hindsight approach. Verlander has been a top 3 pitcher since the trade. Of course Astro fans are happy how it turned out. Did anyone think that he was when the trade was made? He wasn't even close.
Sale was pitching better, had a much lower contract and he was 27. Verlander was 34. The difference in their trade value was astronomical.
Al's best move was signing this extension...he knows what value he would have on the market.
Alex Avila. 8 years 300m.
Not a good GM.
Worse set of owners in every sport, in any city, that only care about the bottom line and not caring to be competitive.