Rivals250 Updated today
Rivals released their updated top 250 rankings today, after releasing their 5 star countdown yesterday. Some big moves for Michigan:
- 5* Will Johnson moved up 21 spots to #5
- 4* Derrick Moore moved up 70 spots to #51
- 4* Darrius Clemons didn’t move and is #91
- 4* Keon Sabb moved up 4 spots to #95
- 4* Tyler Morris didn’t move and is #152
- 4* Mason Graham ranked in the top 250 for the first time at #159
- 4* Jimmy Rolder dropped 10 spots to #193
- 4* Zeek Berry ranked in the top 250 for the first time at #222
Tomorrow Rivals will be updating their offensive position rankings, followed by defensive position rankings on Thursday and finally the state rankings on Friday.
January 25th, 2022 at 3:09 PM ^
Zeek Zeke.
January 25th, 2022 at 3:13 PM ^
*facepalm* Zeke autocorrected on my phone multiple times, and probably the 5th time trying to type Zeke I type Zeek…
January 25th, 2022 at 3:59 PM ^
Zug zug
January 25th, 2022 at 3:10 PM ^
OL Target Josh Conerly also moved up 27 spots to #31, earning himself 5* status
January 25th, 2022 at 4:09 PM ^
Wild how different Rivals and On3's rankings are. On3 has Conerly at like #150. Rivals has Kenneth Grant outside the top 250, while On3 has him at #101. Rivals has Jimmy Rolder #193 and On3 has him at like #60
January 25th, 2022 at 5:59 PM ^
Wild and woolly.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:09 PM ^
From what I read his all star performance was uneven at best, and he also dropped like 50 spots on the on3 rankings. Not that I really care, I'll still take him in a heartbeat. Just seems kind of strange.
January 25th, 2022 at 3:14 PM ^
I learned the other day that anyone of our recruits who improved in the rankings did so because they are better at football now, while anyone who fell is just as good as they were but was passed by kids who got better!!!
January 25th, 2022 at 3:19 PM ^
...are Darrius Clemons and Tyler Morris playing defense? If not, why are they updated ahead of the offensive position rankings?
January 25th, 2022 at 3:22 PM ^
Because they’re part of the Rivals250. Which was updated today.
5 star update was yesterday, top250 was today, offense position rankings are tomorrow, defensive position rankings are Thursday, state rankings are Friday.
Thought I made that pretty clear in the OP.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:12 PM ^
I think its not an issue of communication on your part, just starting with the basic point that "Rivals250 is a ranking of all recruits, regardless of position and side of ball" which you have no obligation to describe, but may have been misunderstood by GP.
January 25th, 2022 at 3:33 PM ^
#5 in the country? wow. expectations rising. thats not the only thing! That's what she said!
January 25th, 2022 at 4:10 PM ^
These rankings aren't the only area showing movement!
January 25th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^
Will Johnson moved up nice on On3 and up big on Rivals. I do not recall anything crazy coming out for him recently to warrant the huge bump ups. Did he win an all-star MVP on defense or something? Dominate in some skill competition?
January 25th, 2022 at 4:15 PM ^
He was showing out extremely well at the all star practices from what I’ve read. On top of his size and athleticism combination, he did very well in his practice matchups.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:16 PM ^
Just had to go out and look it up. Your right, he was dominant during Under Armour all star practices ...
https://michigan.n.rivals.com/news/rivals-names-will-johnson-nation-s-top-cb-in-final-rankings?ga_source=tm
January 25th, 2022 at 4:17 PM ^
He was consistently good at the Under Armour practices. He was probably the most consistent CB there in fact. The worry with him has been whether he had the athleticism (speed+agility) to play corner. That didn't seem to be a question at the Under Armour practices, hence the bump. The other note I have is that he surprisingly enough hadn't done many camps or anything recently so scouts wanted to see how he did vs other top competition.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:23 PM ^
I know you can't and shouldn't overvalue all star game performances, but Moore still seems a little low at 51.
And as much as I love Will, top 5 seems like a stretch. Obviously an incredible player. Yet, you usually don't see CBs with things like "underrated athleticism" in their scouting report profiling that high.
Any time you hear about Zeke Berry from someone who's scouted him, they're over the moon and aghast at his national ranking. When you factor in that he plays in one of the toughest conferences in the county, him being out of the top 150 is such a head scratcher for me.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:26 PM ^
In Will's case, he is a very tall corner. Tall corners usually lack the hips/agility to stay with jitterbug receivers. Will is the rare tall rangy guy who can.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:28 PM ^
I’d guess Moore’s ranking has more to do with positional uncertainty than anything. How high can you really rank a player if you have no idea where he’s going to play on the field? He’s going to come to Michigan and we’re going to have to reshape him a bit and mold him to whatever position we decide to stick him at. But again, what position is that?
Will’s “underrated athleticism” is more a note on how smooth he is for his size, so his actual athletic ability gets overlooked.
January 25th, 2022 at 5:26 PM ^
I guess my main takeaway is the lack of consistency in the method of player evaluation, both in this class and from years past. Which I guess should itself come as no surprise!
As has been mentioned elsewhere on this thread, Will skipped the camp circuit and his athleticism (which for a taller corner can be tough to assess on tape) wasn't measured against top competition until he got to the all star game. Where, by all accounts his play put those concerns to rest over the course of the week. I'm still somewhat surprised to see him get up to top 5 where you usually see more of an emphasis on athletic "freakishness" for lack of a better description. Not saying he isn't worthy of the ranking, just out of the norm based on my observation of recruiting rankings.
Also, if that's the reason for Will's dramatic jump, why wasn't the same logic applied to Moore? I've never been the in the tweener camp on Moore. What is it about 6"4 250 with great closing speed that doesn't say DE? That said, I do recognize that the label was viewed by many as a valid question mark that put a ceiling on his rankings. But then Moore went out and put together an all star week that was equally, if not more impressive than Will's. He showed the tools you want to see in a top end pass rusher and did it against great competition.
Moore did move up 70 spots after all and is parked right outside of the top 50. Johnson has always been highly rated and seems to climb whenever he's evaluated. So maybe a better description of my reaction to these final rankings is 'curious' as opposed to 'surprising'.
January 25th, 2022 at 6:36 PM ^
I’d say that logic WAS applied to Moore. He shot up the rankings after they were able to get a good look at him against quality competition.
But the “positional uncertainty” was due to a few things. Yes, at his current size and his ability to speed rush, DE makes sense. But the knock on him was that he relies too heavily on speed and has to get stronger. That’s a pretty big knock on a guy who is in the 250-260 range. I mean everyone going from high school to college needs to “get stronger.” But being 250+ in high school and relying too much on speed isn’t a good thing either.
Getting stronger means he’s going to have to do one of two things. Either put weight on his current frame, at which point he could outgrow his DE position or potentially lose his speed upside. Or he has to trim weight and put on muscle. There was uncertainty in scouting circles whether he’d be a SDE or grow into a 3T.
For Michigan specifically, is he an EDGE or is he a down lineman? He’s right on the borderline there. If he’s an EDGE, he’s more Hutchinson than Ojabo. Which, cool. But if he ends up in the 6’4” 280 range, does he lose some of that speed? Does he benefit more by getting up into the 290-295 range and playing “end” in the 3-4?
It seems like the all star game helped scouts answer some of those questions and his raw ability helped boost him in the rankings. But there are still some question marks and uncertainty there.
January 26th, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^
Yeah, I'd have to agree with you that moving up 70 spots and winding up #51 is no slight on his stature as a recruit. At that level you're splitting a lot of hairs, especially considering that you're comparing him against other players at 7+ different positions.
I realize that many people who do this for a living and savvy amateurs such as yourself consider Moore a candidate for 3 tech or 3-4 end. I still don't understand why. You're messing with his primary assets buy putting on bunch of weight to play somewhere that his main perceived weakness is going to get exposed? And not to go all OMG shirtless here, but I don't see room for 45 pounds of decent weight on his frame. If he were a Carlo Kemp-type who didn't have the athletic ability to pay on the end, then maybe you think about bulking him way up and moving him down. If he turns out to be Tim Jamison-esque and for whatever reason (with TJ I think it was due to injury) doesn't show the same explosiveness off the edge that he did in high school, then sure let him go up to 275-280 and play strong side. Out of the box it seems to me like a no brainer that you dial his target weight to 260-265 and turn him loose. If lack of playing strength is an issue in that role then so be it, it'll be less of an issue there than anywhere else on the line.
January 26th, 2022 at 3:11 PM ^
A lot of what you’re saying makes sense in the scope of a traditional 4-3 defense. But even then, he’s a little underweight for the SDE position. SDE typically rely more on power, not speed. So he’s still need to gain some weight and strength and risk his speed upside.
In the defense Michigan uses, it doesn’t make much sense. Michigan doesn’t have the traditional “end” in this defense. 3-4 defense your “ends” are more SDE/3T types and Ojabo/Hutchinson types are your outside “linebackers.” Michigan offset this a bit by playing a lot of nickel (2-4-5) which essentially turns one of your linebackers into a quasi-DL.
But again, where does Moore fit in that? He’s too small currently to be a DL in that scheme. He’s a decent size but has to alter his body/playing style to make it as an OLB.
You’re a liability on the field if you rely too much on your speed. So If you’re going to play him at his current weight, you’ll have to shed bad weight and regain the weight with proper diet and muscle mass. Which is a long process that may or may not pan out. Or you add weight as an interior lineman and risk losing some of your speed.
Theres no easy answer to this and that’s ultimately what scouts were struggling with.
January 26th, 2022 at 5:31 PM ^
That analysis of Moore's fit in UM's scheme seems to have gone right out the window lol.
Though, I'd would say that his year Ojabo and Hutch were playing as "quasi" DEs 90% of the time, just out of a two point stance. How Moore would transition to lining up that way is anyone's guess, but I think its a natural assumption that posture would benefit a player who tilted more toward speed than power.
I think the key word that gets lost in all of this is "relies". I haven't seen any scouting reports that question Moore's strength (the opposite in fact), and if that ever was the implication, I think his all star week performance should have laid those to rest. He's more like that big back who is still faster than everyone in high school and always looking to bounce it outside. A hopefully correctable habit in order to unleash full potential, not necessarily a liability.
The only way I see Moore putting on 40-45 lbs and playing 3T is if it turns out he's not a capable pass rusher off the edge, or eats his way into the spot a la freshman BG. Both of which seem pretty unlikely.
So what we're really talking about is whether college S&C should be targeted toward adding 5-15 lbs and playing WDE/OLB, or going 20-30 lbs as an anchor/3-4 DE. Considering his pass rushing skills and our current roster to me it seems like an obvious choice IMO.
January 25th, 2022 at 4:42 PM ^
I think the thing with Moore is he's kinda a tweener. What position does he project to? Does he have the size to be drafted highly in the NFL? Not clear, but he certainly showed out at the UA game and has the strength and speed to be an impact player (hopefully at DE in the George Karlaftis mold)
Also agree about Zeke Berry. His film is electric. He's 100% a top 100 guy
January 25th, 2022 at 5:36 PM ^
That's a good point on the draft. I'm not sure if Rivals is one of them, but I do know that many if not all recruiting services base their ranking on NFL projections. How or why that makes any sense is another topic, but if you're looking at Moore from an NFL perspective, I suppose its fair to say that as a pass rusher he doesn't have the get-off/bend you want to see in a first or second round pick. Can't agree on the size issue though since he seems to be universally listed at 6'4 250 before he even hits college.
January 25th, 2022 at 8:25 PM ^
Just wondering, when is Rivals or any of the big recruiting rankings sites rankings final for the year? I like to keep a list of all the Michigan signees and what they were ranked...but I need the final ranking #s. Not a big deal just curious how much longer players can still be moved around.
January 26th, 2022 at 5:07 AM ^
This week is the final Rivals update. For the others, Safe bet is to just wait until signing day in February. All rankings would be final by then.
January 26th, 2022 at 8:49 AM ^
The one caveat is that there will be very small movements due to players in the 23 class reclassifying to the 22 class
January 26th, 2022 at 8:52 AM ^
Just noticed that Derrick Moore has been bumped to an On3 composite 5* after the bumps on On3 and Rivals.