Question about complexity of a football defense
Recent reports of the new defensive installation suggests that the new defense will be more complex than Brown’s scheme and thus may take more time to install.
My question is how complex are good college defenses in general? As in how complex are Bama, Clemson, OSU, ND, Georgia defenses? Are they pretty close to NFL defenses in terms of schematic complexity? Or more like a halfway point between Browns defense and NFL defenses?
Saban is known for his pattern matching defense, which is definitely a more pro-level concept than what a lot of coaches do. It requires elite talent to work. He has that every year, so it works.
"In my expert opinion, the elite defenses in college football last year were clearly either more, less, or about the same complexity as Michigan's last year."
-D Brown
It's not an exact thing because complexity in one spot might make things more simple other places. I think Don Brown's defense was complex for his defensive ends and safeties, but relatively simple for linebackers and cornerbacks.
You can get complex by running lots of different coverages, or be complex because you stem a ton out of your main coverage. You can also be complex because you have a thick playbook, or complex because your small playbook has a zillion variants and calls in it.
I think in general if you use pattern-matching (Quarters or Saban's Cov3 system) that's a more complex coverage than Man-1 or Man Zero. If you have more hybrid guys who have to fulfill more roles that's more complex than if you line up in base personnel and have each guy focus on his craft, but as you do that you're going to add layers of complexity to his craft. When Mattison came to Michigan he kept it relatively simple, but the best part about that defense was RVB and Martin were doing super-complex things in the middle of plays to mess with protections.
But I agree some defenses are more complex than others. Ohio State's is extremely simple--they use the same coverage 80% of downs, rush their 4 linemen 80% of downs, and dare you to out-talent them somewhere. Michigan's defense got more complicated last year as they added new coverages because they couldn't hang their hat on man anymore.
That helps a lot thanks!
It sounds like under McDonald and Linguists defense, the complexity is shifting from the DL to the LBs? Is that correct? Or at least aligned with what the Ravens ran?
Yeah and the DEs, who have to drop back into coverage, edge rush, or dive inside.
Well that’s good given our depth and experience at linebacker wait what are we talking about again?
im hopeful this summer and fall camp will allow for some big leaps for the D but it is sounding a bit dire as of now. With so many young guys I guess it’s possible they make rapid progress?
either way it sounds like the coaches are going to have to earn their keep and coach their asses off if they want to stick around for next season. I’m fine with that. Let’s see them earn it.
Seth has a good breakdown above that outlines a lot of the key issues. I tend to think of "complexity" on defense as more about "responsibility" for particular positions or groups. With Brown he expected the line and safeties to do a lot of the pre-snap checks and alterations; now under Macdonald it seems more has been shifted to the linebackers. On paper I don't think it's objectively more complex than Brown's as much as it's different, and there will be costs with that shifting of responsibilities. But I also think that there may be a bit of an overreaction with the assumption that this transfer won't happen successfully this year. I don't think UM will bounce back to a top-10 defense; those are actually quite hard to attain and I have deep appreciation for Brown being able to do that basically every year. But I also have faith that these coaches can improve on last year's unit enough to see noticeable differences on the field.
A college football program is its head coach period!!! Ann Arbor does not have one. They have a youth football coach and a professional protester. Results- 4 wins each year!
This is.....less than helpful
Scfanblue is one of the most negative people on this board. Just go root for the gamecocks because you really are not a fan of Michigan. All you do is shit on everything Michigan does. It’s getting old and tired. Why do you pretend to be a fan when it’s clear you are not?? Your glass is always half empty. I would hate to live life like that.
“Professional protestor”
WTF are you babbling about
When you have an "elite" defense with elite players it ain't that hard.
It's figuring out how to get to an elite defense that's difficult. Stats against shitty teams do not count as an elite defense Don Brown.
Defenses vary in complexity in college. NFL defenses are extremely complex. Some it was touched on above, but I'd also add that NFL coordinators will scheme certain players to do certain things that other players at that position don't get to do. Ed Reed could line up at the LOS and play deep safety from that alignment at the snap. He's in the Hall of Fame. At the D1 college level, good players who are also experienced get some of that same treatment as well.
I don't believe Brown's defense is very complex. Man defense, at it's most basic, is pretty straightforward. The nuance starts to appear when offenses motion (into the backfield--do you want a CB in the box?, across the formation with an H-back--do you want to mess with the run fit?, etc.); formation you (bunch sets--who has who, stacked sets, unbalanced sets, etc.); and scheme you (rubs and picks, QB run, etc.). That is where the complexity comes into play and it has to be practiced quite a bit. When you screw up in man and don't cover a guy, it's probably a big play.
Brown's issues were twofold: he couldn't keep up with Ohio State's PASSING game. Barrett didn't hurt him. Haskins and Fields tore Michigan's defense to shreds. And he didn't really have a curveball when his team couldn't keep up in coverage (2020). I'm sure they practiced zone, but they weren't very good at it.
You can minor in man coverage (use it as your "curveball" so to speak) and major in zone. I think it's tough to do the opposite.
As for McDonald, it's an NFL defense and we've just read where Linguist is using the exact same PowerPoint presentations to install it that he used with Dallas, a defense with NFL veterans who, I think it's safe to say, underperformed last year. So we know it's extremely complex. The question is how much they are going to actually use. I have no idea, but NFL coaches aren't exactly known for dialing it back.
I saw just a little bit film of Brown's defense at Connecticut and Boston College. I thought he ran more traps there than at U of M. The summary was it takes two years to learn Don Brown's defense or the numbers when all the starters have been on the field for two years are impressive.
Complex is in the eye of the beholder at this level. I suspect Don Brown had more complexities than we saw in the playbook but for some reason beyond me we never really saw them.
For Don Brown, it seems like I thought to myself, "Somebody blew their assignment" more often than I thought, "Didn't expect that guy to go there on that play."
For whatever reason(s) (I suspect over-aggression), Brown’s defenses, and last year especially, had guys not playing their responsibilities. Can’t get edged as much as they did.