PFF All Big Ten Team
Pro football focus released they’re all big 10 team. It doesn’t appear that Michigan has any first team but does have a few honorable mentions and second team. One thing I found really odd was that for cornerbacks Dax Hill was listed but not Lavert hill. Wondering if that was a typo.
michigans players:
Honorable Mention: Zach Charbonnet, Michigan
Honorable Mention: Nico Collins, Michigan
Honorable Mention: Sean McKeon, Michigan
Second Team: Michael Onwenu, Michigan
Third Team: Ben Bredeson, Michigan
Second Team: Josh Uche, Michigan
Second Team: Ambry Thomas, Michigan
Third Team: Daxton Hill, Michigan
Honorable Mention: Josh Metellus, Michigan
Returner - Third Team: Giles Jackson, Michigan
Of note:
Honorable Mention: Benjamin St-Juste, Minnesota
December 3rd, 2019 at 12:57 PM ^
Talent. Just not quite there this year. Needs to get better obviously.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:01 PM ^
Talent is not there to beat osu, as was aptly demonstrated on Saturday. But this list doesn't pass the sniff test and should not be taken as evidence of anything.
Also, since it wasn't posted in the OP:
https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-2019-pff-all-big-ten-team
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:12 PM ^
Thanks for that, I thought I put it in the post. Unfortunately as we all know I cannot add it now.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:13 PM ^
Less talented teams beat more talented teams every single Saturday. There is a disparity for sure, but it's not the Grand Canyon. More like a thigh gap.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:26 PM ^
Ah, but all those teams don’t get the other team’s best - unlike Michigan.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:41 PM ^
I agree with your first point Hatter, but the gap is bigger than ever and it says something about something. Per 247
- 2015 Team Talent Composite. OSU 907.32, UM 851.12 - difference of 56.2
- 2016 Team Talent Composite. OSU 902.46, UM 852.78 - difference of 49.68
- 2017 Team Talent Composite. OSU 955.51, UM 874.89 - difference of 80.62
- 2018 Team Talent Composite. OSU 984.30, UM 863.26 - difference of 121.04
- 2019 Team Talent Composite. OSU 973.56, UM 853.40 - difference of 120.16
This is by no means the only thing that matters, and you're right in that other teams have beaten them so its not totally excusable, but it sure as shit isnt helping things. I think the perception that we've been recruiting better recently and closing the gap is not backed up by data.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
I'm not sure how much stock to put in those rankings since they seem to indicate our most talented team was in 2017.
But overall I agree. They are more talented. But they're not the New England Patriots and we're not the little sisters of the poor.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:55 PM ^
yeah it is imperfect like all recruiting rankings but basically it's saying we're about the same as we were when Harbaugh took over talent-wise and OSU has improved to have top two talent levels in the country along with Alabama. That feels about like what I've seen on the field. Now maybe that levels out as some of our more talented young guys become feature pieces and OSU graduates some guys (I don't care to know anything about their roster) but I don't think it's inconsequential to see that disparity and see what happened on the field and it doesn't seem like we're in danger of landing a top 5 class anytime soon.
December 3rd, 2019 at 2:22 PM ^
Like GrowOld says below this post, we need to reevaluate just wtf we're doing with recruiting then. I for one expected top 10, if not top 5, classes when we hired Harbaugh. We've had two top 10 so far, but in one of them we lost half the guys to the portal or whatever else.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:53 PM ^
Yup and it's a point I've made loudly here over the past couple of years to the point where others got pissed at me saying it. We are NOT going to beat OSU with a team of "under the radar" players that grade out poorly by the recruiting services - we're just not. And screaming "TRUST THE COACHES" is getting pretty damn old IMO.
We have an enormous, and widening, talent gap with our biggest rival - not unlike MSU is with us - and we're both getting similar results.
We need to take good long, hard look at our recruiting strategy: from abandoning Ohio, to going overseas, to conducting satellite camps, to the position coaches responsible and ask ourselves "is it working?" If the answer is no we better damn well have the stones to change things unless getting our doors caved in by OSU has become acceptable in Schembechler hall.
December 3rd, 2019 at 7:33 PM ^
The part I don't understand is why we're abandoning Ohio which - although not as strong as it was 20 years ago - still produces the 5th most CF talent behind Texas, Florida, California, and Georgia. OSU only takes 5 to 7 Ohio kids which still leaves very good talent for others. Cincinnati and Kentucky have really taken advantage of OSU spreading out nationally - especially Cincinnati. I think it's one of the major reasons for MSU's slide - it no longer gets that 2nd tier of Ohio HS talent. Just think we need to start focusing on Ohio again
December 3rd, 2019 at 4:42 PM ^
Now do the difference between Auburn and Alabama. I’ll help you, it’s larger for every year. The problem is coaching
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:36 PM ^
What about this doesn't pass the sniff test? Looks about right to me.
December 3rd, 2019 at 2:03 PM ^
Hawkins first team, Nico Collins and KJ Hamler only HM, Robert Windsor as only 3rd team, Joe Bachie's presence but not not McGrone, Metellus only HM, no Lavert Hill (or only being 3rd team if he was typo'd out) all seemed like a bit of head-scratchers to me, but maybe I'm just not that up-to-speed on the B1G this year.
December 3rd, 2019 at 2:10 PM ^
B1G WRs are loaded with elite players like Rondale Moore, KJ Hamler, Rashod Bateman, Tyler Johnson, Chris Olave, KJ Hill, etc. If you had watched Minnesota closely, you would recognize that both Tyler Johnson(who is considered to be a border-line 1st rounder) and Rashod Bateman(who is considered to be one of the top WR for 2021 draft) are studs.
Lavert Hill ain't beating out Jeffrey Okudah who is projected as a top 5-10 pick. Antonie Winfield had a great year and is a ballhawk. Lavert Hill has a tendency to draw penalties which hurts his PFF gradings.
December 3rd, 2019 at 12:57 PM ^
Hawkins is 1st team "Flex".
This list is crazy. Do they sanity check this or is it just raw numbers??
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:09 PM ^
Based purely on their grading system, which I believe isn't at all transparent.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:20 PM ^
Oh man, I missed that. I looked at the picture that they had for the first team and it didn’t show a Michigan player. I missed where he was listed as the first team flex in the comments below.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:08 PM ^
Pretty surprised to see Lavert Hill not even make honorable mention. Same with Cam McGrone. Maybe McGrone is left off because he only played about a half year as a full-time starter. Still, has there ever been a year under Harbaugh without a first-team defensive player?
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:13 PM ^
I’m going to stick with the assumption that it’s a typo. Lavert has to be who they meant instead of Dax.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:40 PM ^
Dax was pretty good in nickle situations and Lavert probably had more PI than passes defended this year. Not saying they were all deserved, but he got called for at least one a game.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:15 PM ^
Bachie is on the list! So apparently you don't need to be a full time starter. Or eligible.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:15 PM ^
10 OSU players to our one. And that one was Brad Hawkins? Well, there’s your butt kicking explanation. Best coaching in the world is not going to overcome that.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:29 PM ^
OSU - 5 starters
PSU, Wisconsin, Minnesota - 2 starters
Michigan - 0 starters
Like the good Dr. said yesterday in his post. "It's all about talent" The beatings will continue until recruiting improves.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:32 PM ^
Ben St Juste was awful the few times I saw him.
Then again when you don't play Mich or OSU - your grades should be higher.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:33 PM ^
Particularly stinging: Mario Ojemudia's brother 1st team corner at Iowa.
December 3rd, 2019 at 1:42 PM ^
This is probably based on int's. I don't know a thing about him, other than he played pretty good against us, and Minnesota when I watched.
December 3rd, 2019 at 2:40 PM ^
Our running game--offensive line and backs--is painfully mediocre
Ohio State absolutely mauled us with their run game. The difference is stark