Outside Receivers
I think some people are overreacting a little bit on the need to get an outside receiver for this class. 1st off, this season alone showed that we don't use them as much as we have in the past. 2nd, in the past we have always had the one home run threat and usually one, at most two quality underneath/possession type guys. We will have that next year with Stonum and Hemmingway. 3rd, if you take a look at our roster we are looking pretty good for next year and the following when Miller/Jackson arrive.
Here is our roster for next year...
Sr - Matthews...he showed he can make plays down the field and is very good underneath as well.
Jr - Clemons (if he stays) will move back outside
So - Hemmingway and Stomum
Rfr - Roundtree
With only Matthews graduating we will have 4 experienced guys on the outside by the time Miller/Jackson arrive. This list obviously does not include the pleathera of slot guys we will have at our dispossal.
While I agree taking a guy in this class would be great, I don't think it is as big a need as some people make it out to be.
Thoughts...
December 10th, 2008 at 5:59 PM ^
a lot. i guess people just don't notice it because our QBs couldn't get them the ball.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:46 PM ^
Amen, brother.
December 10th, 2008 at 6:05 PM ^
To a certain degree...while I agree we do use them (we always have at least 2 on the field), I don't think you can argue that our offense has shifted and the slot receiver is more of a focal point than it has been in the past. Odams, as a freshmen was our leading receiver case in point...
December 10th, 2008 at 6:14 PM ^
Hardly case in point. He was our leading receiver because he ran many very shallow routes (see: bubble screens) which were manageable for our QB's. Had Threet and Sheridan been able to make the long throw, that wouldn't have been the case. Also, you always want at least one outside WR in every class, no matter what. We have open schollies and our class doesn't look like it will be overfilled, and too much depth at a position like WR where injuries are common is not a bad thing.
December 10th, 2008 at 6:23 PM ^
Odoms was not included in the list.
(edit): nvm...i see the title of the topic...
December 10th, 2008 at 6:25 PM ^
Odoms plays in the slot position
December 10th, 2008 at 6:17 PM ^
That with the guys we already have, the offense we run, and the guys coming in in 2010, this could be a year where we could get by with not bringing one in.
December 10th, 2008 at 6:31 PM ^
d peace is an outside receiver
December 10th, 2008 at 6:31 PM ^
With no consistent and accurancy from the qb position ,being that,Nick not talent enough and Steven being a redshirt frosh and first year playing in R2 offense. Hopefully with the pick-up of Tate and Beaver along with Steven we should see a upgrade.
December 10th, 2008 at 7:09 PM ^
"...this season alone showed that we don't use them as much as we have in the past."
If RR has the talent there, he’ll use outside receivers. I’m not intimately familiar with his previous receivers, but they don’t seem like your stereotypical speedy little slot guys. The following observations are based on the statistics of receivers he's used a fair bit in the past, whether they went to the NFL as receivers (based on the premise that the speedy, little slot guys typically don't move on as NFL receivers), and based on typical measurables for outside receivers (could only find NFL stats).
At Tulane he used both P.J. Franklin and JaJuan Dawson roughly equally his first season. The next season Franklin had 74 rec., 1,174 yards, 11 TD and Dawson had 68 rec., 947 yards, 12 TD. Both went on to be receivers in the NFL. Dawson was 6-1, 197 lbs. in the NFL, and Franklin was 5-10, 180 lbs. Franklin may have been a slot guy, but I don’t see Dawson as having been a slot receiver.
At Clemson he used Rod Gardner quite a bit (80 rec., 1084 yards 4TD) in 1999, and he went to the NFL (6-2, 219 lbs.) Also not a stereotypical slot guy.
I don’t think Chris Henry was used in the slot either (could be wrong), and I don’t see RR recruiting receivers like McNeal, Randle or Evans without intending to use them.
It may not be as great a need in this class, but I'm confident RR will use the outside receivers if we have them and if we can get the ball to them.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:37 PM ^
Chris Henry played outside and had over 2000 yards in his two seasons at WVU, averaging around 20 yards per catch.
I don't know how plainly it can be stated: Rich Rodriguez didn't use outside receivers at WVU because Pat White can't throw. Neither, for the record, can Nick Sheridan or Steven Threet minus two elbows.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:50 PM ^
To make your point further, WVU tried to use the outside receivers more with Pat White and it failed miserably, because White couldn't get them the ball consistently, which is why mediocre Cincinnati is going to the Orange Bowl.
December 11th, 2008 at 12:23 AM ^
It sounds like we agree, yet you reply to my comment by saying towards the end: "Rich Rodriguez didn't use outside receivers at WVU because Pat White can't throw" as if I was contesting this point. I'm not. In fact, that's why I cited Chris Henry, because he left before White came in, IIRC. I just didn't have his stats.
I also agree that neither Sheridan nor an elbowless Threet can throw to outside receivers. I don't expect that to be as much of a problem next year or beyond, so I think RR will end up using the outside receivers more.
Am I just missing the point of your comment? I'm genuinely confused.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:28 PM ^
Here's what I think:
- Darryl Stonum doesn't know how to block, which is needed
- Roy Roundtree weighs 4 pounds, and will break if he's hit
- Greg Matthews....is he 100% bought in??
It would be nice to have some depth at this position, rather than forcing Ricardo and Jeremy to come in and make plays. I'm just not willing to throw the towel in on recruiting with the guys we have, I'm not sold. They're not bad, but I think if we can add one more solid guy, then let's do it.
December 10th, 2008 at 8:59 PM ^
Whether he's bought in or not, Mathews is our best returning receiver. And he can make plays when given a chance (diving catches, breaking occasional tackles, etc.). Since he only has one year left, I don't think Mathews has much of an impact on this recruiting class.
When Roundtree came in, Rodriguez said he would be a slot guy. Perhaps that has changed. Maybe he played on the outside in practices or something, I don't know. But at least originally, he was not an outside receiver.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:10 PM ^
Do you think Mathews would play harder if he knew there was someone waiting right behind him to play? I agree about Roy, I just mentioned him because it was in this thread. But, Mathews, if he's not 100% bought in, this team isn't good enough yet to have their best receivers dogging plays.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:23 PM ^
Absolutely, I think he would play harder if he knows somebody's on his tail. I just don't think the 2009 recruiting class is going to be affected much by a guy who's outgoing, and I don't think a 2009 guy is going to nip at his heels any more than Stonum, Clemons, or Hemingway.
And if there's any guy on this team who's proven that he can make plays, it's Mathews. If Michigan had a good QB, Mathews could potentially be a 1,000 yard kind of guy. He made some great catches last year, and he's one guy who has noticeably improved his speed since Barwis arrived.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:30 PM ^
Yea, I see your point with that, and you're right about him leaving. I think the QB thing is huge though. He has to do more, because our quarterback's are lacking. So if he's not 100% trying, then I'm worried. I agree he could be great, but he's got to know his role on this team is to lead and help at this point. He's used to having good quarterbacks, where we have a couple young guys who need time. This thread started with why it's important for us to recruit outside receivers. I think it's important to give our quarterbacks help. If they're not up to par, then give them kids that will make them better. So, good point, I think we're arguing kind of the same thing in different ways.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:36 PM ^
Tom, I'd call out any other poster for it, so here goes:
What makes you imply that Matthews didn't buy in? I detected no lack of effort from him - just an occasional lack of health (he played hurt for much of the year). People here respect your opinions, and assume you know things - so I hope a random slag of Matthews effort isn't a toss off sentence, because people give your writing more credence than most of us.
Personally, I have no insider knowledge - just my eye-balls. And I didn't see the kid dog it.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:41 PM ^
I fully expect you to call me out, don't be hesitant. But, I don't know anything about him not buying in, other than the talk of him possibly wanting to transfer. I don't think those rumors are true, but I think they might have some strength behind his thoughts. In my original post I asked if he bought in 100%, I really was asking because I don't know. If I was him I would have a hard time with it. Being a receiver knowing I'm probably not going to get the ball, chances are I'm not happy. So, this wasn't any insider info, just me having a conversation asking a question.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:47 PM ^
Point taken. A hobby-horse of mine is taking issue when people questions the drive/effort of these kids - merely because it's so easy as a spectator to do so. Our team wasn't very good - but honestly, I saw a team that largely played really hard.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:50 PM ^
Oh yea, I give these kids a lot of credit. Playing hard when you're losing is not easy, and they did it. A lot of them as freshman. I was just asking because it doesn't seem far off if he did, and going back to the original point, I don't think we should stop recruiting outside receivers just because we think we're all set.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:14 PM ^
Agreed. Right now we have Matthews, who is on his way out. Clemons may not be very good. Hemingway has looked good, but hardly played - so who knows? Stonum was disappointing, but has plenty of time to change that. So, beyond next year, we have 3 guys for 2 positions - none of them is approaching established. We need more, obviously.
December 10th, 2008 at 9:54 PM ^
that Matthews was one of the hardest workers throughout spring and summer practices and workouts. I honestly think Hemingway is a better deep threat and Matthews is more of a possesion receiver so if we can get both healthy and back next year our receiving corp should be pretty solid.
December 10th, 2008 at 10:16 PM ^
Just throwing it out there, throw it right back if you want to. I am not too informed but why did we drop Jamal Patterson? Do we maybe have some sort of lead with Rueben Randall, just maybe?
December 10th, 2008 at 10:20 PM ^
not reuben randle, there's other receivers we're looking at though
December 10th, 2008 at 10:38 PM ^
Peace made the comment that Hopson told him they want him as a WR first, and as a CB if he fails at WR. Tom suggests that the pursuit of Patterson had a lot to do with Peace's waffling.
December 10th, 2008 at 11:02 PM ^
Well I guess I will start to work on a new recipe for Snake Oil, maybe add some absinthe to it and hopefully that will reel Randall in.