Gocannon16

September 10th, 2010 at 8:33 PM ^

going to get negged for this, and trust me i agree with your sentiment.  Terrelle can not have "arrived" after two games, but we can't exactly "throw up" when a writer writes a sensationalist piece.  Else every article written on Tate after the ND game, and every article written on Denard this week would ellicit a similar response, its just sensationalism, you can throw up when the buckeye organization begins saying pryor has arrived(when he hasn't)

clarkiefromcanada

September 10th, 2010 at 8:43 PM ^

A few thoughts

a) Terrelle never had a game where he performed the sort of last minute heroics that Tate pulled off against ND. He showed his heart against Purdue in last year "everybody fumbles, everybody intercepts" game

b) Terrelle never had a game as good as Denard's game last week...and that was Denard's first god damned game...

Terrelle has been a diva since he went to OSU..he hasn't so much arrived as started to live up to his compensation level.

Zone Left

September 10th, 2010 at 8:45 PM ^

All I'll say is this:

Terrelle Pryor consistently turtles or runs out of bounds when he needs the extra yard.  We haven't really seen Denard in that situation, maybe once or twice, but I'm reluctant to use the small sample size, but I don't think Pryor will ever quite "get it."  My OSU relatives agree.

BTW, I am drunk and hate Notre Dame.

Not a Blue Fan

September 10th, 2010 at 9:03 PM ^

Not that I like to let facts stand in the way of a drunkard, but you're demonstrably wrong. Pryor converts more third downs with his legs than anybody in the conference save John Clay. We had this very discussion about a month ago, and the statistics were posted to prove the point. There are a lot of ways you can criticize the kid: he's not a natural thrower, he reverts to arm punting when pressured, etc. Turtling and failing to get the needed yardage, however, isn't one of them. If you're going to dog the guy, at least be bothered to say something that's not easily proven to be wrong.

As for Denard? Eh, I haven't seen enough to say if he's the real deal or not. I'm leaning towards a yes on that, but one game isn't enough to say (and let's not even bother counting his freshmen year, because he was basically a punt returner lined up at QB for limited snaps).

Clarence Beeks

September 10th, 2010 at 10:46 PM ^

If you're going to dog the guy, at least be bothered to say something that's not easily proven to be wrong.

I don't think the statistic you are citing refutes the point that he was making.  Simply because he has that third down yardage does not mean that he gets tough yardage.  It just means that he gets yards on third down.  I've watched (at least part of) every OSU game since Pryor arrived in Columbus and I tend to agree with the sentiment that you were responding to.

Zone Left

September 10th, 2010 at 11:55 PM ^

My point is totally anecdotal, but it every time I watch him it seems like he's constantly not getting the "tough yards" as Beeker said.  Pryor is a talent, there's no doubt about that, but the Vince Young comparisons and the insistence by all parties to turn him into an NFL passer have probably done him a disservice.  

Honestly, I was (almost) disappointed watching him against Michigan last year.  He had a couple easy first downs that he turtled on to keep the game in doubt.

Not a Blue Fan

September 11th, 2010 at 6:30 AM ^

the insistence by all parties to turn him into an NFL passer have probably done him a disservice.  

I guess I'm philosophical on this point. It is Tressel's job to win games and help his players to grow personally and professionally. If TP believes that he needs to learn to throw the ball well to play in the NFL, and JT can both do this and still win games, then I don't really have a problem with it. Now, is TP ever going to be Peyton Favre Brady Jr? No. He doesn't need to be, though. He needs to be able to hold on to the ball, read defenses and make good decisions, and throw consistently accurate passes. None of those things requires him to throw for 350 yards per game.

While I don't doubt that OSU could have won more games (thus far in his career) by simply lining up TP and running some variant of the zone read, I think ultimately that's a bad decision. It puts the team in a position wherein its completely dependent upon his health for success, it puts him in a position wherein he is not prepared to make the leap the NFL, and - in a more meta sense - it's riding the tail end of a wave of popularity in an offense (that is, defenses are adapting to the spread). So while I'm not willing to say that a coach is obligated to develop his players for the NFL, I think that good coaches try to help their players reach their goals in life AND win games. If Terrelle wants to play in the NFL, then he has to learn to throw the ball effectively. That's the long and short of it.

That being said, I think that TP could be a devastating passer in the same way that he's a solid runner. That's right, I said it. Will he become that passer? I'm leaning toward no, for this reason: every single story about him emphasizes that he's a perfectionist who wants nothing more than to please people. That's can be a really bad mindset to have (believe me, I'm a perfectionist when it comes to cooking and software - it takes me forever to get things done "the right way"). Every time he sees a new wrinkle in a defense, he seems to lock up trying to analyze it and make a decision - often making a decision far too late (throwing it up for grabs) or eating a sack. Even in running the ball, he seems to look for the big play instead of getting what's there to take (running laterally instead of downfield in an attempt to outflank the defense).

Basically, his issues seem to be related to having confidence in his reads and decisions. Physically, he's as good as anybody in the game right now. You might not want to admit it, but he is a man amongst boys (if you've ever seen him in person, he puts your jaw on the floor with how he's put together). If he ever gets to his happy place, mentally speaking, people had better look out. Remember when Vince Young went from "guy who looks tentative trying to figure out what to do" to "guy who makes a decision and goes balls to the wall"? That's what I'm talking about. Vince Young didn't suddenly get stronger and faster between the end of the season and the Rose Bowl against UM; he flipped the switch and became more decisive.

In summary, the decision to help develop him into a passer isn't a good or bad decision, it's just a decision made to help him reach his personal goals. He's got all the tools to be dominant, but needs to get right mentally. That's the long and short of it, and I think it's a very fair assessment.

teldar

September 11th, 2010 at 8:58 AM ^

is the perfectionist trying to please others? And this is what's making him a questionable qb? I think what's doing it is that he really isn't very smart. Lets face it. Not everyone who has the skill has the mental ability to go with it. Ryan Leaf? Brady Quinn? Vince Young? Some players do fine against one level of competition, dominate even, but can't pull it together for the next level. Pryor has obviously had issues with the mental side of the game. You can't really blame questionable play on being a perfectionist or on wanting to please.

Not a Blue Fan

September 11th, 2010 at 9:17 AM ^

I guess I don't disagree. Different sides of the same icosahedron. I think 'he isn't all that smart' might be (un)intentionally derogatory, but probably not entirely inaccurate with respect to football. I mean, I'm a pretty smart guy (my mother tells me so), but I have a feeling that I would  struggle to read defenses while avoiding large angry men. I'm not a fan of Gardner's multiple intelligences, but I think this is a good candidate for applying that paradigm.

Man, that might be the most heavily qualified series of sentences ever.

Gocannon16

September 10th, 2010 at 8:49 PM ^

not disagree with you. I never said I did,i merely stated that NATIONAL media sensationalism is nothing new, and nothing to talk about, if someone in the buckeyes organization, or maybe a national name (herbie i'm looking at you) or even a local(ohio state) paper does this, then talk, but national media has been and will continue being this way.

outwest

September 10th, 2010 at 8:42 PM ^

In the world of 24/7 media coverage of sports writers need to print what will sell and are constantly having to come up with ideas that people want to read.  This plays to the Ohio State fan base plain and simple.  I can understand your wanting to throw up when anything Ohio State related is printed.  

Darth Tressel

September 10th, 2010 at 8:50 PM ^

Two Big Ten Champsionships.

Rose Bowl Win/MVP

2-0 vs Michigan.

Also to the poster who stated late game heroics: Night game at Wisconsin his freshmen year he ran the option and took it 10 yards into the endzone for the game winner with around 1:30 left. A night game at Wisconsin is a little more hostile then at home versus Charlie Cheeseburger.

By the way, beat the shit out of ND tomorrow.

P.S. Drob is fun to watch.

Tater

September 11th, 2010 at 6:54 AM ^

Let's see how TP does against a team that hates them even more than they hate Michigan today.  I don't think he has the maturity to perform under the kind of heat that Miami should bring.  I think TP is very talented, but I also think that Tressel has been kissing his ass so much that he hasn't matured as he should. 

TP still thinks he is above the team, and would rather be an "NFL QB in training" than a guy who gives it all to "The Team, The Team, The Team."  Tressel, instead of challanging him to grow, has enabled him in his diva-like behavior. 

What is really sad about this is that Tressel, by continuing to allow TP to keep his illusion that he will someday be a prototypical NFL pocket passer, and putting his goals above those of his team, is training him to be a spoiled brat, and will keep TP from fulfilling his true NFL potential: as a H-back or TE.

Instead, Pryor will sign a nice contract with the NFL as a QB, blow his bonus money, and be broke and out of the league before his rookie contract is up.