It seems like I've been hearing about this ace Turner for years now and how we can't afford to give him up in a trade but I have never actually seen why. Shouldnt he be at least playing by now if he's that good. Eventually the kid has to play. He's reminding me of Freddy Adu a little bit at this point. He must be 35 by now.
OT: Should the Tigers make any moves before the trade deadline?
Well he's only 21 and he's in Toledo, he's still on the Rick Porcello fast track to the Bigs.
He's only 21 years old.......most prospects take, you know...time to develop more. He's still a great prospect and we'd have to get something huge in return for him.
Fair enough. I didn't know he was still THAT young. Just seems like he's been around forever.
is only 23
I remain very hopefull that Porcello has a long productive MLB career...Maybe Petry-like.
Petry = Peaches. He was always a good #2/#3 starter for the Tigers.
I miss the days of Walt Terrell, a consistent 13-15 game winner who would smoke cigarettes in between innings.
He's been really good recently too. I'm a Cubs fan and having watched him pitch a lot I'd say he's a solid 2nd or 3rd starter for sure. The defense behind him has cost him this year, as has a huge lack of run support.
In terms of what the Cubs will want/take, 1 word. Plastics.
Er... Prospects. The Cubs are in full "Win in 2015 or 2016" mode right now. We've got 2.5 pieces that are in the bigs right now that will be around for the future: Castro, Garza (the half) and Samarjza (sp? who cares, to hell with ND). We need help everywhere else and Theo is doing it in the minors. We just landed the Cuban, Soler, and he's got some guys in AAA that he likes, if you have any blue chip minor leaguers, we'd take them.
I don't think you're getting any blue-chip guys for Dempster. He's 35 and pitching out of his league right now. Probably get solid prospects, but you're not getting anyone on the level of Turner and Castellanos (our top 2 prospects)
I'm not familiar with your prospects specifically, but it's going to be a seller's market. Dempster has full no-trade rights - there've been rumors that he'd move the the white sox so as not to move his family if they become buyers.
Yeah, Demp is 35, but c'mon, with all the teams that need solid SP and all the teams in contention the Cubs should get something for him. The big question is if the Cubs can package a bad contract along with him. Does anyone want a 35 year old with no knees who has more homeruns since May 15th than anybody? C'mon! You'll get Dempster too!!
I never said they wouldn't get anything for him. But I don't think you'll get any blue chippers for him (ie top 50 prospects). And if you do, joke's on the team that does it. Tigers have two blue chip prospects - Turner and Castellanos - and I wouldn't give up one of those guys to get Dempster unless I'm getting a solid prospect along with Dempster in return. And regarding Soriano - chances are you're going to have to eat that contract no matter what. Either you keep him, or trade him and still pay a majority of his salary.
But I still think it's a seller's market, and we'll see what Theo can do.
Watching Soriano play the outfield has been horrible his whole time in Chicago. First he was a miserable fielder, as he's gotten older his knees have just disintegrated. He seems to know how to play the outfield more now, but he just can't move, especially to his right. Any ball hit in the corner, watching him try to run after it is just painful. That said, he's really, really hot right now. I think an AL team that needs an injection of power at DH could take a little of that cash off our hands. I know we'll have to eat some/most of the deal, but I think he could help somebody.
They should make a deal......at the right price.
Adding a SP and a 2B that is not an automatic out 9 times out of 10 would be a ideal. BP seems to have come around.
Maybe consider one-stop shopping with Dempster and Darwin Barney, who is good defensively, dirt cheap salary-wise (not arb eligible for another year or two even), and not totally useless with the bat and seems to have improved this year over last. At 26 should be entering his prime over the next year or two. Of course, that means you'd have to give the Cubs a reason to trade him and the combo of the two might cost a better prospect than the Tigers are willing to give up.
Yeah, I don't see why the Cubs would be interested in dealing Barney unless they got something great in return. Barney is young, cheap, and decent. But I don't know if Barney+Dempster is worth Turner/Castellanos + other decent prospects.
I really like the idea of going for Dempster abd I think we could get him for either Crosby or Porcello because the Cubs are looking for youth. Moreso I think we need to put together an offer for Greinke. Hes going to be a free agent and the Brewers want something for him. We could give up Castellanos and two of our three young pitchers Crosby, Porcello, or Turner for him. Will that be enough...well who knows. We should at least try.
I doubt the Tigers are in position to add Greinke or another hefty contract now. For them to be active at teh trade deadline, I would like them to put together a 10 or 15 game run where they win 3/4 or even 2/3 of their game before we go all out for this season.
Greinke is going to be a free agent; and you want to trade away Castellanos to rent him for a few months? The Brewers would definitely make that trade straight up. I wouldn't.
Double post please delete
No thanks on Greinke, he's only a rental and Illitch isn't going to add 80 million to payroll to sign him at the end of the season. The Tigers are at the point where they can't add much more to payroll especially for a rental player.
You really don't think Illitch would drop the coin for him? I think he would if we could get him. Ever since the NHL salary cap he has been dumping money into the Tigers. Hes getting up there and wants a World Series ring before he passes. I think he would invest the money for a guy like Greinke.
Obviously we wouldn't trade for him without the money to sign him long term. If that is the case we would be better off with Dempster.
The Tigs currently sit at a payroll of 132mil if they add a guy like Greinke long term that would put the payroll up into Yankee, and Red Sox territory and I don't think it's realistic to assume Iliitch would do that.
I have reservations about trading Turner, he's cost controlled for quite some time. We have 3 pitchers eligible for arbitration (Max, Fister, and Porcello) so one of those guys is gone either before or during the winter meetings via trade. In Turner we have a cheap young asset that could help us.
We will truly see if Dombrowski earned that extension last year.
If we get Dempster I'd like to see how much more we'd have to give up for Darwin Barney. I don't mind giving up Turner but I wouldn't deal Castellanos at this point.
That would be interesting. I have to imagine the Cubs would be very reluctant to part with Barney, though. If we could get both Dempster and Barney though, I'd do that for any two of Porcello, Turner, and Crosby. A trade like that would be so clutch.
They should add a SP. The batting will get better once Martinez comes back, but we need a pitcher. That would leave us with Verlander, Fister, Dempster (if we trade for him), Porcello, and Scherzer.
I happened to watch Jacob Turner pitch against the Durham Bulls Saturday night and really didn't come away impressed. He only gave up 1 ER, however only 2 K's and gave up a lot of solid contact to a dreadful Bulls lineup. I think his ceiling is more SP 3-4 rather than 1-2.
Eh, if you knew nothing about Justin Verlander, and just happened to see his start against Boston where he gave up 5 earned runs in 6 IP, would you deduce that he was nothing more than a below-average pitcher? You can't just look at one game in isolation and make a judgment about a player. Admittedly, Turner hasn't been very sharp in AAA this year, but he's coming off an injury, and as others have said, he's only 21. Give him some time. I'll take the word of professional talent evaluators who say he's a top-20 prospect overall, compared to your evaluation from one game.
Dempster or Garza and a decent 2nd baseman are a must. Just imagine...... Verlander, fister, than Garza or Dempster... that's a pretty solid 1-2-3. Porcello and Scherzer, yet inconsistent, are pretty solid 4-5s.
where will this decent second basemen come from? Their are really no available players that are true answers. Honestly, the tigers could probably get a guy the quality of will Rhymes (although not him of course-Rays) but that might be it
Well considering our current second basemen hit about .200, any upgrade would be nice. We could always move Peralta to second and pick up a SS too.
Got to get a second baseman. Someone who can consistently hit .260 and not wield an iron glove. Maybe we could get Scutaro off the Rockies.
GP South represent!
coming from another South grad.
South grad here too, and Getz could definitely be another possibility.....but I'm not convinced he's a guaranteed upgrade over Worth at the plate. Scutaro's a better hitter even at 36. Not looking for a long-term solution, just one for this year and maybe next.
Getz is for sure better than worth at the plate. Scuturo no, but getz wouldn't be a 1 year rental player. People forget this team has a young core of players. They are not old.
Yeah, I was trying to rephrase that.....he's an upgrade but I don't think he's enough of one. And the thing is, I don't think we need anything more than a year or two rental player. Keep in mind Getz is a .250 career hitter with no power, so he's not a long-term solution. He's the classic good-field-no-hit player.
I like Scutaro. He's nothing flashy but plays decent defense and will hit .270 with 8-10 homers and a dozen bags.
He is 36...doesnt have much speed anymore and is htting .265 in the NL. I dont care what he did at 33 34 or even 35. There comes a point where a guy is too old to produce.
This might be a cop-out answer, but the answer definitely has to be yes for the right price. One issue I think we'll start seeing soon though is that there will be less sellers at the trade deadline with the extra wild-card. A team like the Cubs might be willing to sell, but with more teams looking to make a run, it's going to drive the price up for a guy like Garza or Dempster. If you can get one of those guys without giving up your top two prospects I think you do it, otherwise I think you look at acquiring a 2B and hoping Porcello and Scherzer somehow sharpen up.
The Tigers need to get Chris Getz to play at 2nd. He could hit in the 2-hole. Solid Left handed bat with good speed. And he wouldnt garner too many prospects. This team could also use another bullpen arm.
Plus Getz went to Michigan
I was just about to say that our bullpen seems to be rounding into form... and news is out now that Octavio Dotel is headed to the 15-day DL, and they've recalled Luke Putkonen to take his place. I just hope he's less of a tire fire than he was earlier this year.
Retroactive to June 2nd so its not as long as everyone thinks. Villarreal has been a nice fit in the late innings so this isn't a huge blow.
He is a rollercoaster. I dont think the tigers can trust him in the late innings. Sidenote: Can he ever attempt to pick off a runner, without throwing the ball away. C'mon it cant be that hard.
Not a 2-hole guy. 8 or 9, really. He doesn't get on base enough. He'd be an upgrade since we are basically playing replacement-level ball at 2B, but I think we could do better.
The main reason he would work is becuase he would come cheap and would give the linup some more speed.
Yes. Trade Verlander to the Yankees to prevent him from inescapably signing with the Yanks 3 years from now when his contract is up.
You might as well put cabrera in the deal too. So he doesnt lose all of his value after another drinking incident, all becuase the Tigers cant win.
More likely, since the Tigers need a lefty, Dombrowski orchestrates a trade for CC.
What is Brian Roberts status with the Orioles? I know he has been on the DL most of the year.
He has had really bad concussion problems. I dont think he played at all last season.
I'm more worried about DD making a deal and then signing every player he trades for to a 3 year 15 million dollar extension. If we're going after a rental player, let him be that.
What player has he done that with.....????
Some work out, some don't but
Peralta, Miggy, Dontrelle, Delmon come to mind immediately. It sure seems like more/everyone we trade for gets extended. I'll look in a minute.
They never re-signed delmon, only picked up his option (I think around 5-6M) . Peralta had a great year last year, not so good this year, but only paying him 5.5M per 2 seasons. Dontrelle was the only one that hasnt worked. And you cant say anything wrong about the cabrera deal. Another deal that worked was the Polonco deal. So some of these deals have worked. We didnt re-sign Renteria, Kyle Farnsworth (Pudge Deal 2008), Edwin Jackson, Garry Sheffield, Neifi Perez, Abrury Huff, Jarrod Washburn, Wilson Betemit, No new deal for Fister yet, David Pauley didn't get a new deal. It only seems like they have but you cant let all the guys you trade for go away.
the dontrelle willis experiment.
Among AL second basemen, we have players ranking #18 and #19 out of 22 per ESPN when it comes to offensive production at second base, with Danny Worth hitting a cool .184 and Santiago hitting about .210. So, the average overall comes to .197. Actually, if you throw #21 - Ryan Raburn - into this, 2B bats .180 for the Detroit Tigers. To me, finding someone that can produce offensively here would seem to be a priority. I would be intrigued by the idea of going for Chris Getz, or perhaps from the NL - in the Getz salary range - you would have perhaps someone like Elian Herrera or Danny Espinosa, who aren't tremendous improvements, but Darwin Barney would be a good upgrade, I think, and I don't know that it would be painful to get him from the Cubs. Scutaro wouldn't be a bad short-term solution, but Barney is 27, I think, and could hang around for a while.
As to the OP's question, I wouldn't mind adding Dempster to the rotation - he's 35, but he is a good pitcher, has had success recently, and pitchers can still do well enough into their 40s that you migth get decent longevity anyway.
As a Cubs fan, and a growing Tigers fan more and more...this is a no brainer. Porcello for Demps would be a massive coup for the Tigers and a huge blow to the Cubs rebuidling efforts. Cubs will want to bring back quality and quantity for any and all trades we make the next two months. Tigers will have to pony up an impact AAA/AA player, and then at least two more low A or a B level prospect for Demps. Jed and Theo want controlable, young and talented players.
Porcello, in my mind, needs to get sent down and work on a consistent delivery and throwing strikes down in the zone. I think with his service time that might mean DFA'ing him, but if he has some options, that would be what I would do. His two seam fast ball doesn't cut and sink consistently, and he is prone to "cock" shots.
Cubs will listen on Demps and Garza. Tigers would be wise to make a play for either, but they will have a ton of competition since three AL east teams and Dodgers will be in play over the next two months. Watch out for the Rangers and Angels making a play for one or both as well. Dodgers are said to want Demps, and will be linked to him the next couple weeks. For me, and I mean no offense, but the Dodgers are my perferred partner for Demps, since Eovaldi could be the center piece in that deal. He is a legit 2/3 arm, and has shown he can pitch in the bigs the last two years.
Tigers need more than just one arm. They have some issues, both overt and opaque.
I think getting Eovaldi for Dempster is a pipe-dream. And doesn't really make sense from the Dodgers' perspective. If they want another starter, why would they trade a current 22 year old starter for a 35 year old one?
What about Vlad? He was released today from the Jays.
An old guy that doesn't play defense and doesn't take pitches? No thanks.