OT - Mounting evidence Houston Astros have been blatantly stealing signs for years.
Shame for off topic post during season but this story is picking up a lot of steam in the sports world, and with Justin Verlander being on the team, they get some follow around these parts.
Ex Astros' players have outed the team. A camera set up in center field has been sending a video feed of the pitch signal to a TV in the Astros' tunnel in their dugout. The person watching the feed would then bang, (no not that bang NNTB) a bat on a garbage can or whistle or make other noises to signify which pitch was coming. For example, no bang equals fastball, 1 bang = curve, 2 bangs = changeup, etc.
Sign stealing is nothing new in baseball. The Red Sox were busted for it in a series against the Yankees in 2017. But this seems pretty blatant and obvious once you watch the video. The Astros have been probably the best teams in the MLB over the last few years with a WS win and another WS appearance so it will be interesting how the MLB handles this.
Your volume will need to be turned up for the video and the twitter link is just a link to stats for some home and away splits for the Astros during their 2017 playoff run.
https://twitter.com/Sports_Talker1/status/1194408381198585857
November 13th, 2019 at 3:22 PM ^
Isn't stealing signs part of the game? Especially at that level?
November 13th, 2019 at 3:24 PM ^
Just like inflating footballs to your liking and videotaping practices. Signed Bill B.
November 13th, 2019 at 5:58 PM ^
Another thing that is no big deal
November 14th, 2019 at 7:51 AM ^
Stealing signs without using video tape relayed to the dugout is legal. A guy on 2nd second signaling to the guy at bat after he picked up the catcher signals is OK etc. But using technology to videotape and then relay the information to an area behind the dugout is not. Can’t use technology like videotaping etc in real time.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
If a guy on the bench figures it out, good for them. When teams start using binoculars, tv cameras and other forms of tech, that’s a no go. The Astros are probably going to be paying a big fine soon.
November 13th, 2019 at 4:02 PM ^
Yeah, that's my thought. You should be trying to figure out signs during a game, but using technology to do so is probably over the line.
November 13th, 2019 at 4:10 PM ^
Why? Should they also only teach with clay tablets and train with iron weights? I realize it's baseball and baseball tends to be stodgy, but... it's also baseball and cheating in this particular manner is part of the game.
November 13th, 2019 at 4:14 PM ^
so you would be ok for opposing football coaches to tap into the other team's headsets, eh?
November 13th, 2019 at 4:40 PM ^
so that's what Hoke was worried about.
November 13th, 2019 at 4:43 PM ^
WOW!!!! Best comment of the day, maybe week!!!
November 13th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
I mean, how much would have been gleaned by hacking a communication between Hoke and Borges?
HOKE: Durka durrrrrrrrrrrr
BORGES: Hummunahummunahummuna
HOKE: Guh?
BORGES: I said hummunahummnuahummuna
November 14th, 2019 at 8:41 AM ^
You're completely off base here.
HOKE: clap clap clap clap
BORGES: Hummunahummunahummuna
HOKE: clap?
BORGES: I said hummunahummunahummuna
November 13th, 2019 at 7:02 PM ^
so you would be ok for opposing football coaches to tap into the other team's headsets, eh?
No, but there is a long tradition of stealing signs, it's considered part of the game. Method is the irrelevancy here.
November 14th, 2019 at 8:29 AM ^
If the pitcher/catcher/manager cannot use technology to share what pitch to throw (which they really should, it is 21st century for crissy sakes), then the opposing team cannot use technology to steal signs. Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?
November 13th, 2019 at 5:50 PM ^
Your comment doesn't deserve the negs. The idea that stealing signs with your eyes is ok but when you use "technology' it somehow isn't is nonsensical. It either is or isn't.
November 13th, 2019 at 5:56 PM ^
Right, because life is binary.
November 13th, 2019 at 5:59 PM ^
In fact yes, some things are
November 13th, 2019 at 10:28 PM ^
So then every team is just can’t steal signs on the road? Using something the other team doesn’t have access to (like a video feed at home that goes directly into the dugout) to do something beneficial for both teams is not a competitive advantage, it’s cheating. Like when a football team is on the road and their headsets stop working. The home team then stops using headsets until they are all working because too many teams would use this as a way to cheat at home.
November 13th, 2019 at 11:52 PM ^
Though I don't disagree with you completely in principle, players expect baserunners to try to steal signs and can plan/counter accordingly, saying using tech doesn't change anything not only disregards that aspect, but is like saying "A running back is trying to take the football to the endzone, so why is he running "the old fashioned way," when he could be driving a Hummer?"
November 13th, 2019 at 6:07 PM ^
MLB should hit them, and hit them hard.
November 13th, 2019 at 8:24 PM ^
They win their WS. They won’t give a shit.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
There is difference between a runner stealing signs and relaying it to a batter, versus something like this where you have a camera in place and a system with the dugout. Doing that is going over the line of what is considered part of the game. The Astros should face some consequence (likely a large fine) for this and the league should make sure it does not continue.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:35 PM ^
Yep--it's not written anywhere in the baseball rules, but there is an absolute line drawn between using technology to steal signs and using your brain. If your system for stealing signs only works when you are at home, that's cheating.
November 13th, 2019 at 5:06 PM ^
Gotta disagree. Sign stealing is as old as the game itself. Just because somebody was the first to use modern technology to steal the signs does not mean there is now an unwritten rule prohibiting it. And the pearl clutching of the guy who narrates the video is ridiculous.
You want to stop this? Actually pass a rule. Until then all's fair in love and war.
November 13th, 2019 at 5:55 PM ^
The pearl clutching over this is silly. Baseball has a long tradition of "cheating" but when people see it all of a sudden the morality police come out. Gaylord Perry won 300 games throwing a spitter, that is cheating, and he's in the HOF. I actually think cheating in baseball is funny, and when it gets caught it adds to the fun of the game. Yes, punish them if it's against the rules, but stop with the "OMG strip the title."
November 13th, 2019 at 8:37 PM ^
Of you ain't cheating you ain't trying.
November 13th, 2019 at 7:05 PM ^
It is 100% against the rules. The Red Sox got fined for using an iWatch to relay signs during a series a few years back. The Astros got fined for sending an employee to spy the Indians dugout.
The scope of this is far greater and more egregious. It's going to be loss of draft picks at a minimum. Some front office types and possibly coaches will face a year or multi-year ban. The fine will be over a million.
Outside of such sanctions, it's probably going to cost George Springer a lot of free agency money.
November 14th, 2019 at 9:41 AM ^
They did pass a rule before this season, I linked an article on it farther down in the thread
November 13th, 2019 at 3:30 PM ^
It is against the rules but yes, most teams are probably trying it from time to time. Much like dirty recruiting tactics in major college sports, nobody cares until it is blatantly obvious. Think Ole Miss football. Well, this is blatantly obvious and it has led to a ton of success so is will be interesting how the MLB decides to act on this.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:32 PM ^
Most teams are trying to steal signs from time to time like I said, but it is usually someone in the dugout figures it out and then the runner on base relays to the batter. It is not nearly as effective as the setup the Astros have here. The technology driven part of this is the problem, trying to steal signs the old fashioned way is slightly frowned upon but it is not against the rules per say like using tech is.
November 13th, 2019 at 4:30 PM ^
Every game of the WS was won by the visitor
November 13th, 2019 at 4:52 PM ^
Not the only World Series played by the Astros recently. Click through and check out this thread:
November 13th, 2019 at 11:25 PM ^
Astros 154 wins on road in last 3 seasons.
November 13th, 2019 at 7:17 PM ^
When you suspect a team is cheating you can take measures to make it more difficult. Basically using new signs and changing them frequently. This is something the Astros and Nationals most certainly did.
Doing this is annoying because it adds a ton of downtime to the length of the game.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:33 PM ^
Not with cameras. Using technology is against the rules.
November 13th, 2019 at 5:08 PM ^
You got it, TK. Let's eliminate all film from football.
November 13th, 2019 at 6:19 PM ^
Cracking a sequence or spotting a tell is part of the game. Having a live-feed when no one is on base is not.
November 14th, 2019 at 1:18 AM ^
Exact same thought I had, why has baseball at all levels been using coded signs since forever. Why would they be in code unless they could be stolen. Maybe using cameras to catch them is a new wrinkle but I didn't think there was anything in the rule book about stealing signals.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
Once we got married, my wife stopped letting me bang the can.
November 13th, 2019 at 4:10 PM ^
you wife needs a check up from the neck up. Almost 21 years of marriage and I bang the can all the time.
wait .... were talking about sex right?
November 13th, 2019 at 4:46 PM ^
He should just wait until she falls asleep.
November 13th, 2019 at 5:05 PM ^
Anal I believe
November 13th, 2019 at 7:40 PM ^
Ahhh. I thought that was rattling the can. Got my metaphors crossed.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^
Most exciting thing to happen in baseball since Bonds.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:31 PM ^
Technology-driven sign stealing compromises the integrity of a baseball game way more than PEDs ever did.
Will be interesting to see what MLB does but I'm guessing nothing of consequence.
November 13th, 2019 at 9:55 PM ^
Not to mention pace of play. Games are already crawling and if teams have to start using sequences when guys aren't on base, it will add 2+ seconds every pitch.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:32 PM ^
If it's not directly, physically impacting the game (which it's not), it should be allowed.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^
Knowing what pitch is coming is a huge advantage for a batter, it is kinda of silly to say it is not impacting the game.
November 13th, 2019 at 3:48 PM ^
You must be an Astros fan
November 13th, 2019 at 5:33 PM ^
"Let me win, but if I cannot win............Let me be brave in the attempt".....
--Motto of Special Olympics, Houston Astros and Evil Kneivel.....