OT: Baseball - Bye Bye Pudge

Submitted by Casa Grande on

Holy cow!  Pudge for Farnsworth straight up? 

Tells me the management is ready to put THEIR stamp on the Tigers on the field moreso than the former Marlins Mercenaries that have been the centerpieces of this team. 

I'd rather have seen Sheff traded. 

Just sorta blown away by this.  I know he's a free agent at the end of the year but I've been led to believe it was "his team" and "his clubhouse."  Wow!

 

Farnn

July 30th, 2008 at 5:45 PM ^

As a Yankee fan, when I read this my first thought was "they got robbed!" I am really impressed with the trades Cashman has made, and I'm thinking maybe the Tigers are giving up on a shot at the play-offs.

Tacopants

July 30th, 2008 at 6:06 PM ^

I cannot believe that Farnsworth was the best they could get out of the Yankees. Farnsworth = win now, but all signs point towards trying for the future. If Pudge left in free agency the Tigs would have still gotten 2 decent draft picks for him. I mean, what were the Marlins offering for him that was so bad? Andrew Miller back?

chitownblue (not verified)

July 30th, 2008 at 6:09 PM ^

Hate to say it, but this wasn't 1998 Pudge. He doesn't hit for power, doesn't get on base, and isn't a very good fielder anymore. The only thing he really had going for him is that his name is the same as when he was good. Farnsworth blows, don't get me wrong - but if you were expecting an elite prospect for 2 months of washed up ex-famous guy...

Jay

July 30th, 2008 at 6:20 PM ^

You hit the nail on the head, Chitown. People are thinking of what Pudge used to be, not what he is. The guy has a worse OBP than Inge. What does that tell you? As much of a psychopath Farnsworth is, he's still better than Jones or Dolsi and is more reliable than F-Bomb or Zumaya who can't stay healthy.

97.1 also just stated that Brandon Inge will be the Tigers full time catcher for not only the remainder of this year, but, for all of next year as well. That confirms the rumor that was going around back in May that DD and Inge had a sit down meeting and Inge agreed to become a full time catcher once Pudge was gone after this season.

Chrisgocomment

July 30th, 2008 at 8:34 PM ^

Pudge is on a downward slide toward shitsville.  He's done.  The Tigers got some great use out of him WHEN HE WAS ALREADY TOO OLD AS A CATCHER......now he's just plain washed up.  I like this trade.  Pudge is going to be a free agent next year anyways, so might as well get something for him now.  Inge is just as good as Pudge at the position (right now, not in Pudge's prime) so the Tigers got a good deal here.

Sommy

July 30th, 2008 at 6:11 PM ^

Yeah, I would love to see Sheff gone, too, but really, what are you going to get for him at this point? He's just not performing, and it's not off the mark to believe that his career is probably over. Though I'm a UM fan, I listen to Valenti's loud Spartan mouth every day on 97.1, and I think he hit the nail on the head -- the Wankees needed a catcher (obviously), but the Tigers walk away from this a much stronger team. Pudge isn't even an every day player at this point, and I would argue he wasn't even the top catcher in the division at this point.

Md23Rewls

July 30th, 2008 at 6:30 PM ^

I don't think Pudge can even see Mauer at this point, and even though he's been awful this year, I still think Martinez is clearly better than Pudge. So I don't think its even an argument that there are better catchers in the division. Anyway, as a Yankee fan, I like this deal. They need a catcher in the worst way (Molina as a .586 OPS, and if he went down they have Chad Moeller, who might be worse). Farnsworth was great in Jult, but he's been inconsistent for the last three years, so I don't think it will last.

Casa Grande

July 30th, 2008 at 6:26 PM ^

I like Inge, I'm just stunned that Pudge went. Shouldn't be. Anybody is fair game at trade time. I think more than anything they could use a shrink for the relievers and get their heads on right. Overall the underperformance of this group is frustrating. But they're still our team. Always have been. Always will be. :)

chitownblue (not verified)

July 30th, 2008 at 7:06 PM ^

Look, Farnsworth is super-shaky. Don't get me wrong. But, "maybe not the best in the division"? He's not even playing the same game as Mauer. Pierzynski is better. VMart is better. I don't know who catches for the Royals, but I'd put even-money that they're better. Look, he hits .293, but it's meaningless - he doesn't take a walk, and has no power. Inge, despite his .227 average, actually gets on base as often as Pudge. He also has much, much more power. This is an upgrade without even looking at Farnsworth. As for the Farns - is he better than Fossum? Dolsi? Todd Jones? I'd submit the answer to all of these questions is "yes". And I still don't think he's that good.

Tacopants

August 1st, 2008 at 10:43 AM ^

I'd agree, but I'd also say that the AL Central probably had the best catcher depth of any division.  You already have Mauer and Martinez, the #1 and 2 offensive catchers in baseball.  AJ Pierzynski is also pretty good.  Kellly Schoppach at backup for Cleveland is doing better than Inge and John Buck, the KC catcher.  Pudge was better than at least 50% of starting catchers in MLB.

I mean, look at the stats.  For all his "not every day player" status, he's still played in more games than 1/2 of the AL starting catchers.  His OBP is actually 40 points higher than his BA, .338 vs .295, and better than all but 3 AL starting catchers, and his .755 trails only Navarro (who came out of nowhere) Schoppach, Mauer...and Inge.  Throw in his still Gold Glove caliber defense and his game calling ability... Pudge wasn't exactly chopped liver.

I do grant that Inge will be a slight upgrade, as getting on base means nothing if you can't score, more HR/doubles.  I just think that getting Farnsworth was just a poor value.  Pudge was the best available catcher on the market and the Yankees were desperate.  DD should have, could have gotten more.

Jay

July 30th, 2008 at 8:08 PM ^

If I were DD, I'd condider moving Ordonez as well, provided he can get a couple of high end pitching prospects in return. This pitching staff won't be good enough to compete next year, either. They really only have one arm that is even remotely reliable in the starting rotation and that is Verlander.

Tubes

July 30th, 2008 at 8:46 PM ^

Plenty of baseball teams trade their best hitter and reigning AL MVP runner-up. 

Unless you are completely blowing up the team, which is not happening, you don't touch Ordonez.

Sommy

July 31st, 2008 at 3:37 PM ^

You're right, Verlander is definitely far more reliable than Gallaragga, even with his losing record.  Those 6 full perfect innings Gallaragga pitched last week were actually a mirage.

Yinka Double Dare

July 30th, 2008 at 8:09 PM ^

Detroit-area bars. The Farns is a flake, gives up tons of home runs, and has been repeatedly lit up by the White Sox over the years (owns a shiny 7.5 ERA against them lifetime). He'll fit in perfectly with the Tigers bullpen.

big gay heart

July 30th, 2008 at 9:52 PM ^

So, what was gained by this trade? You still have a terrible bullpen. Farnsworth has one of the flattest fast balls in the MLB and is prone to giving up home runs. But, beyond that, you have the worst catching situation in the MLB. What happens if Inge goes down? And why trade Pudge to a fellow wild card contender? Farnsworth was all they could get? Fact of the matter was that Dombrowski knew the Yankees needed a pitcher and, yet, he still gives Pudge away. I have no problem with moving Pudge, but I have a huge problem with this trade. You get a bottom of the barrel reliever and lose out on two decent draft picks. I mean, fuck. Hang onto Pudge and try a couple guys from AAA. Case in point, Ostland. He's got a 2.45 ERA with a 1.03 WHIP. At least that way, you're evaluating talent for next year. I'm running on emotion right now, but I really feel Dombrowski has lost it.

Sommy

July 31st, 2008 at 3:45 PM ^

1) Yeah, Farnsworth throws a pretty flat fast ball, but he's been pitching well lately, and if he continues to do so throughout the season, it gives the Tigers a far better shot at the playoffs.  He played fairly well the last time he was in Detroit and I'd pin a lot of his struggles on that whole Yankees-fans-demand-perfection thing.  He's only here until the end of the year either way.

2) Dane Sardinha

3) Nobody from the AL Central is winning the wildcard this year.  A number of teams would have to go on a HUGE slide for that to happen.  The Tigers are either winning the division or out.

4) What good does hanging onto Pudge and bringing up guys from AAA do?  They've been doing this all year, and Pudge was likely gone at the end of the season, anyway, when the Tigers couldn't have gotten ANYTHING for him because he'd be a free agent.

Tacopants

August 1st, 2008 at 10:24 AM ^

MLB has a compensatory draft pick system, it works kind of like restricted free agency in the NFL.

Basically, if a player is a FA over the winter, as long as you ask for arbitration and Pudge signs with a different team, you get compensated with a decently high draft pick, sometimes 2 if its a bigger name player.

And before you say "well Pudge would resign with the Tigers in arbitration", no he wouldn't have.  Some young team would have offered him a ton of money for a longer term deal, and the Tigers would have had a great arbitration case, playing on Pudge's age, durability, all of his bad qualities that would have resulted in a 2-3 year deal at probably 4-5 mil.  Pudge would not take this and leave a 3-4 year 8-9 million/year deal on the table that Boras would get for him.

 

This could still happen with Farnsworth, but Pudge is a good leader type, respected HOF catcher who still has a big name value which = selling seats.  You could argue that he brings legitimacy... like his 2004 signing did for the Tigs.  Farnsworth is a decent middle reliever who is only 3 years younger than Pudge, commands nowhere near the same value, has shunned Detroit before, CRIED when he left NY, and falls a level below Pudge in the compensatory draft system.  At this point, 100 ash bats are probably worth more than Farnsworth, especially if the Tigers don't make the playoffs.

Md23Rewls

August 1st, 2008 at 10:46 AM ^

I think there is a good chance Farnsworth and Pudge will be Type A Free Agents (meaning the Yankees and Tigers will both get a 1st rounder+a compensation round pick). The whole rating system is pretty screwed up, if you ever look at the list, almost everyone who stayed healthy for 3 years and mantained performance anywhere near average ends up as a Type A. I'm 99% sure Farnsworth ended up as a Type A last time he was a free agent, and he's been decent for the Yankees, so he should be again.

hat

July 30th, 2008 at 10:30 PM ^

I think it's a decent trade. At this point there is really no dropoff from Pudge to Inge (at bat or in the field), and Farnsworth strengthens the bullpen ever so slightly. Dombrowski's made a few mistakes as GM (most notably the Jurrjens-Renteria trade), but let's give him credit, he's also found some gems. The deal for Armando Galarraga got no press when it happened, but it looks like a steal right now.

chitownblue (not verified)

August 1st, 2008 at 10:57 AM ^

Tacopants, at the end of the day, the Tigers are a better team today then they were 4 days ago. Thus, in my mind, the trade was fine. Yes, they lose the compensatory draft picks, that's a given. The "team leader" and "legitimacy" arguments can't be addressed - I'm not going to believe a guy is a leader because Drew Sharp like writing columns about it. I know that, on the field, he had a .253 EQA this year, which puts him slightly above average, offensively, at his position. Inge's EQA is .264, which makes him substantially above average. Inge is a good defensive catcher as well. People think he's worse because they look at his BA compared to Pudge, but if you take a deeper look, he's a better player today. I'm not sure what the market for Pudge was - two teams were looking for catchers - the Yankees and the Red Sox - and the Sox were looking for young catching. So, if they were going to trade Pudge, there was only one possible destination.