OT - Per 97.1: Leyland and Dombrowski extended
Dombrowski through 2015
Leyland through 2012
Interesting that there's a difference in # of years. I guess some would call me a Leyland supporter, though all I do is try to research reasons behind his decisions, but I do support the Leyland extension.
I'm surprised by the Dombrowski extension's length. I'm pretty happy with most of what he's done. He's missed on one or two major decisions (Jurggens), but he's mostly made up for them with positive decisions (Peralta, bringing up Avila early, Fister/Pauley looks like a good move, most recently).
August 8th, 2011 at 12:23 PM ^
Good news, nothing wrong with stability and a true vote of confidence. I think they both have done very good work
August 8th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
I would have rather them wait until late September to make sure they don't blow this Central Divsion lead...
August 8th, 2011 at 12:25 PM ^
That's one side; the other is that you don't want these things hanging over their heads in the middle of a pennant chase. The Tigers are in pretty good position, so I like the timing of it.
They DESERVE to have it hanging over their heads given the chokejobs to give the division away in '06, '07 and '09.
They have no credibility at all with a division lead in the second half.
Do you like the Tigers and Michigan?
I've never seen someone so single-mindedly devoted to hating their favorite things.
Yes. I'm just not the type that would start a slappy blog like WLA. Critical thought isn't your strong-point. It's OK.
I watch a good portion of almost every Tigers game. I want to see them win very badly. But I am frustrated with how the organization is run. If Illitch is going to spend like he has, he needs to have higher standards for management.
Leyland and Dombrowski, with their track record, would never ever be extended at this stage in Philadelphia, New York, Boston, etc. (even relative to those clubs' payroll and division competition). They probably wouldn't even be around anymore.
I don't believe in being a "soft" fan. This makes me a rarity in the state of Michigan.
You just seem to take this entirely too seriously. Why do you obsessively follow things you loathe?
Why do feel the need to personally insult people that don't side your depressingly bleak view? It's just borderline behavior, and completely bizarre. Why do you care if Tom, or anyone else, thinks Leyland does a good job? Why does that make you so upset?
It doesn't make me that "upset," but I do, to a degree, resent sentiment from fans' that put so little pressure on management. When I see someone who claims to be a big Tigers fan saying they are A-OK with these guys who have done nothing with once-considerable latitude from ownership, it reminds me of why it's so easy for ownership to not hold them to a higher standard. Again, my attitude would not make me a pariah on the east coast.
Detroit is a peculiar place in some ways. It's a city that can pack a stadium with thousands of people wearing the jersey of a guy hitting below .200 because he's a "good guy." It seems to have a disproportionate number of people who find it disloyal to say anything negative about the teams they follow. Perhaps their own lives are bad enough and they don't want anything but sunshine regarding something they choose as a form of entertainment. That doesn't jibe with my own ideals as a fan.
You used an 06 season in which there was a "choke job" to give the division away as a minus for our team and front office but completely ignore that we made it to the world series that year. I think that tells me all I need to know about what type of fan you are.
For the record, I will take a choke job that gets us to the world series over winning the division and not making the WS everyday of the week....but that is just me.
It doesn't make me that "upset," but I do, to a degree, resent sentiment from fans' that put so little pressure on management.
Since when is it a fan's job to put pressure on the management? Newsflash: No fan knows as much about baseball as Leyland and Dombrowski. This is fact. And don't even start to talk to me about "baseball strategy" or whatever you want to use to defend your opinions when you openly admit you don't even follow the Tigers on TV, let alone in any depth whatsoever:
I watch a good portion of almost every Tigers game.
People like you and Valenti who deem it their jobs to "hold management accountable," don't even know baseball. You don't fucking know baseball - you admit it yourself, you don't even watch the games. Leyland and Dombrowski do. They're doing a good job and are by most accounts over-achieving with this team. Nobody expected a division title this year, yet the Tigers are going to pull away with it.
It has nothing to do with blind devotism. It has everything to do with chilling out and looking at things analytically and not being a douchebag and complaing about a single game's lineup in an entire 162 game season.
I loved it when people complained about the Tigers' lineup last week but didn't bother to do the cursory research that showed that Santiago dominated Ogando (he had two hits in that game before Peralta came in after Ogando left, BTW).
/rant on people who know jack shit about baseball
August 8th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^
I'd take early September if we were in a similar situation to where we are now. Maybe a slightly larger lead on the white sox. I'd at least wait until after this series with the Indians to see what happens.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
Hmmm...Dumbrowski...tell us how you really feel...
August 8th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
Whoops, fixed.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^
Another year of mouthful, mumbling, grumbling, post game interviews.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:32 PM ^
move. He's done, overall, a really good job.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
Dombrowski's biggest negative is his penchant of overpaying veteran players (Inge, Guillen, re-upping Maggs at such a high price this year). Outside of that, his moves have been pretty shrewd and I have agreed with them for the most part.
I still maintain that this team would have won the division last year and would have already had it in the bag this year if he had re-signed Polanco to play third instead of re-signing Inge for the same price (albeit one less year).
August 8th, 2011 at 12:49 PM ^
Not going to arbitration was one of the most head-scratching things hes done. We lost a 1st round draft pick, and we actually needed what Polanco had to offer. Also, the way Dombrowski overpays veteran players, what Polanco wanted probably wasn't that out of the ordinary.
I disagree that we would have won the division last year though. I think the number of injuries really took us out of it right after the all-star break.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:59 PM ^
he's sat a sizable amount of games this season
That is a good point. Maybe that had a lot to do with it. That being said, we really did need another infielder and early order hitter the last couple of years. Even with the injury risks, I'd have liked to see them go to arbitration at least. Especially considering the money we have thrown at Inge and Maggs (well potential money at least).
1.9 WAR
Inge : -1.0 WAR
I understand your point, but the production we've gotten out of third base this year might be the worst in all of baseball. Polanco, even with the injuries, is a considerable upgrade.
So he signs too many well-paid vets, but his biggest mistake was cutting ties with a well-paid vet?
Agree the Polanco move didn't work out, but it was a logical move.
Uh....yeah, that's what I'm saying. A bit of irony there, no?
Explain how it was a logical move given the events that followed. Please.
given the events that preceded the move. I'm sure, in hindsight, Dombrowski knows he should have behaved differently.
At the time, the Tigers had a handful of intriguing middle IF prospects (Sizemore, Iorg, etc.) and a serviceable player in Santiago. So you let the aging expensive vet walk and plug in the youngsters on an otherwise older team.
The best move would have been to slide him to 3B and cut ties with Inge.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
I'd call myself a Leyland supporter myself, and the thing that comes to mind with the number of years is maybe this was his decision, as he might be starting to think about retirement. I tend to think Dombrowski is overrated as a GM, but if the Tigers do win the division this year (as they are on pace to do) I do think that warrants an extension. He has had some big misses (which are highlighted above), but overall I think he has done a good, not great, job as GM.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
also extended David Chadd and Al Avila
August 8th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^
Let's also not forget that DD signed V-Mart this last year. What a huge pickup that has been; hopefully he is able to re-sign him to at least another year.
August 8th, 2011 at 12:51 PM ^
Now go get pitching!!!
Neither is perfect, but both are BY FAR the best the Tigers have had since the 80s.
That has a lot more to do with Illitch finally opening up his checkbook than the actual jobs they have done.
The biggest difference between Randy Smith and DD is Smith couldn't sign/re-sign vets to healthy-sized contracts even if he wanted to. Both suck hard at drafting and developing prospects.
How did I know you were going to respond negatively to that? We're in good shape to win our division this year and things are looking even better for next year. Relax a little bit with your Leyland/Dombrowski hating.
It's not negative. It's an honest point-of-view and one that you'd have a hard time forming an argument against given the Tigers' complete lack of aggressiveness in the hot stove league in Illitch's first seven years on the job.
The difference between how Illitch has run the Tigers and Red Wings organizations has been night and day. He sets the bar very high for his hockey team, which is why Brian Murray and Dave Lewis were fired in spite of respectable records. Contrast that with 6+ years of Randy Smith, purely sentimental hirings like Alan Trammell, Dombrowski not being held accountable for stranglehold contracts that went to Bonderman, Robertson, Inge, Willis, etc. or Leyland still being kept around with no division titles.
It's completely different because you have two very different organizations, and two very different reputations. Granted, I am only 23, so anything about the Tigers' (and Wings') legacy before the mid-90's is lost to me, but for all I've known the Tigers have sucked. Contrast that to the Wings, and all I've known for them is awesomeness. Illitch has the wiggle room to expect an extremely high standard for the Wings becaue he has a lofty legacy to maintain; the same cannot be said for the Tigers. He is trying to build that legacy; and right now, he has formed a management staff that has turned a perennially awful team into a playoff contender (not to mention the World Series run) for the past 5 seasons, and the future looks bright. You're trying to compare apples and oranges.
And there it is. The low expectations in the fanbase I am talking about, crystallized in this kid's post. He associates the Tigers logo with losing, thus the standard of "let's just be competitive" without looking at the factors that should make them more prosperous than they have been over the last five years in this division. Many people in this area, all less than avid, share the view.
When Illitch was building the Wings' legacy, he did it with it HIGH STANDARDS (thus the firing of Brian Murray, hiring of Scott Bowman and the huge emphasis placed on international scouting). The same cannot be said with his journey through Tigertown. In fact, it's been the opposite.
They've unquestionably done some bad things. But every time you post, those are the only data points you can muster.
You never mention Granderson, Verlander, getting Cabrera, the Granderson/Edwin for Coke, Schlereth, Scherzer, and Austin Jackson trade (one I'm confident they'll end up winning), the development of Porcello as a viable MLB starter as a 20 year old, the Peralta trade, the Betemit trade, the signing (partially fueled by savvy use of organizational soldiers like Craig Monroe, Marcus Thames, Chris Shelton, and, yes, Brandon Inge on the cheap). The rock-solid signing of Kenny Rogers.
You forget that he FOUND those nobodies like Monroe, Thames, Shelton, Inge, and Robertson on the cheap.
Also, lets be honest - the deal for Bonderman was 100% understandable - in the first year of that deal (2006), before exploding his arm a billion times, he was quite good.
The fact that you repeatedly and constantly ignore the larger view for the cherry-picked negatives is what frustrates people.
But it's cool, you're not into analytical thinking.
I completely get how MLB drafting works. You have to understand that a pick like Porcello is more a credit to Illitch, not Dombrowski. When a high school kid hires Scott Boras as an agent, he is going to be hard to sign. That's why enough teams stayed away from him before he fell to the Tigers, who took him because Illitch was willing to shell out and make the kid a big bonus baby, not because DD saw something in him other teams didn't.
He gets credit for Verlander - sure. He was seen as a blue-chipper but credit has to go to getting it right. Granderson too, although his best hitting has come away from Detroit once he has been around real hitting coaches and not Lloyd McClendon. Avila is looking great now, but he was drafted because his dad works for the team, not because they saw a diamond in the rough (you hear little about how the sons of Jim Leyland, Gene Lamont and Rod Allen -- all Tigers draftees -- are doing these days).
The bottom line is low-payroll teams have built competitive teams for short periods almost entirely on smart draft picks and/or Latin American scouting. I am glad we don't have to do the same, but if we did, there is NO WAY Dombrowski would be able to swing it.
So you're willing to use externalities (Avila is the son of an employee, Granderson was obvious (which is complete bullshit, but whatever)) to explain away successes, but ignore them when discussing Bonderman (a solid signing undermined by repeated elbow problems) and Dontrelle Willis (a 26 year old with 5 MLB seasons in whic he averaged a 3 WARP each year.
It is complete bullshit to suggest coaching had a lot to do with a guy who could not hit lefties here and has morphed into a guy who hits lefty pitching for more power than any other player in the American League?
McClendon is, like Gene Lamont, in Leyland's Pittsburgh posses. Unless management goes above the skipper's head, he is untouchable and doesn't have to do a good job here.
Even though Granderson couldn't hit lefties here, he still had arguably better numbers and was batting leadoff. He also didn't have quite the protection he has in NY...but you're right. It is all the hitting coach over at NY.
No, I'm saying that no player coming out of Horizon League baseball is a "blue chip" candidate, and your assertion that he was is bullshit. When DD drafted Granderson, the reaction was "WHAT?".