Offense Struggles, but Defense is our fallback?
We figured the offense might be a work in progress. But the defense this past weekend made Wisconsin look like Alabama/Clemson. Has everyone figured out Don Brown's defense? Or- do we not have the personnel this year? I was hoping at least the defense would keep us in games. Is the whole coaching staff and locker room imploding by game three? Is the leadership on the team sub-par? Not sure if there are any answers right now, but I am hoping the team finds some moving forward.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:46 AM ^
BRENT VENABLES.
He's the best defensive mind in college football today. Seems to be the only DC in college football capable of stopping Elite modern offenses (i.e. in CFP formats).
Only 48 yrs old. Has been the #2 man at top-5 programs (Oklahoma/Clemson) for the past 20 yrs (since he was 28 yrs old). An excellent recruiter -- Rivals' 2016 National Recruiter of the year.
Knows how it's done at a top program. Has enough experience to be ready 3 or 4 times over. No black marks, violations, accusations in his history. Could probably bring one of Clemson's co-OC's with him (Tony Elliott--the more proven offensive mind *or* Jeff Scott--the elite recruiter).
Dabo, Kirby Smart, Lincoln Riley, Ryan Day -- 4 of the coaches at top-5 programs in the country assumed their current positions with no prior HC'ing experience.
The answer is clear. I personally think he's the next Nick Saban.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:49 AM ^
Are you going to post this comment in every thread this entire week or just today?
We GET IT. You really, really like Brent Venables.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:06 AM ^
Every thread this wk is essentially about our HC’ing position. Nothing wrong with trying to get a name at least talked about at this point.
The alternatives, to me, are very depressing.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:54 AM ^
No black marks? How many guys got busted for drugs? Offering $200k to Gary is no big deal?
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
Gary said “someone” offered him $$. He didn’t say which school. Certainly not which coach. Assuming it was Clemson is a stretch. Assuming who there hypothetically would’ve been involved is out there.
Guy’s been recruiting since a lot of our coaches were in grammar school. No violations or accusations. It’s irresponsible to wildly throw baseless crap like that out there.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:22 AM ^
It was Clemson. They came out of nowhere at the end of the recruiting cycle, causing many a clenched MGoButthole.
I don't know who offered it, but someone at or affiliated with Clemson did.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
Stretch? Bacon basically stated that it was Clemson. And he wrote the book on this.
I understand you probably do not care about that, but at least be honest about it.
And if we are going to go down that moral sewer, we might as well just get Urban.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
Mods please delete
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
"He's the best defensive mind in college football today. Seems to be the only DC in college football capable of stopping Elite modern offenses (i.e. in CFP formats)."
Wisconsin has been gashing people recently with an old fashioned offense...
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:47 AM ^
Has everyone figured out Don Brown's defense?
Everyone? Probably not. Anyone with a decent coaching mind? Possibly.
Anyone who thought the DL wasn't going to be a huge fucking issue this year, after the late season collapse last year, was fooling themselves. There were two NFL DEs on that line plus Mone, and they were replaced by... some guys and Bench Mason? Yeah, that's tough to predict the outcome.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
....but doesn't Don Brown have responsibility also for recruiting DL???
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:59 AM ^
I thought Brown should have been fired after rolling out the same stupid ass game plan against OSU that got shredded by Indiana. So... sure.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:18 AM ^
Lol. People advocating for Brown to be fired. Dude has been rolling out top 5-10 defenses for years. If we fired Brown for some bad games then we truly deserve to be a mediocre program forever.
Does he need to improve in some things? Sure. But advocating to fire him is laughable. Who are you realistically gonna get to replace him? Brent Venables isn't coming to Ann Arbor guys
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:23 AM ^
The defense has been gashed a few times since he's been here. OSU last year, PSU 2017, Wisconsin on Saturday.
I think he's a good coach, but some changes need to be made.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:11 AM ^
I’m not advocating for his firing but I’m sure as hell interested in hearing the thought process behind the 3 man line, Mason @ DT & most especially Glasgow with his hand in the dirt against Wisconsin.
I get Jeter’s banged up & Dwumfor appears like he’ll never be healthy but how is it possible that neither of the 2 frosh aren’t better options than Glasgow/Mason on the interior?
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:26 PM ^
Totally agree. I know true freshmen interior DL usually aren't great, but are they really so raw that a converted fullback or Jordan Glasgow is a better option? I have a really hard time buying that
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
I suppose I expected the next man up thing to happen. I get that they folded during the bowl game with the NFL talent sitting out. I figured the next guys would step in over the offseason. Goes back to the culture. Leadership, coaching, desire. Maybe these guys miss Bush and Winovich as the leaders and don't know how to lead. There is a lot of looking around at each other out there- I don't know what the problem is, but if these guys play with a little bit of passion on Saturday, that score doesn't happen. We look bad, but holy ---- does Wisconsin look good. Hope they can at least take down the Buckeyes.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
There really isn't much flexibility in the defense and teams have a wealth of information on how to attack it. There aren't many wrinkles in the defense. We are also plagued with injuries. In addition, the offense doesn't inspire the defense... We turn it over way too many times...
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:29 AM ^
It's a team game. If part of the unit (like the D Line) are weak there is only so much you can do to compensate without opening up other gaps. Most of our really bad struggles on Defense can be linked to DL play.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:54 AM ^
Hinton and Smith better fucking play this week. Let's at least see what they can do.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
Yes 100%. Those dudes are both over 300lbs. You can’t tell me they’d get steamrolled/pancaked like 269lb Ben Mason. The Mason dline ship has sunk. Even if they just clog lanes that’s better than what we’ve seen.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
If Jeter and Dwumfour can get fully healthy like right now I don't think defense will be the reason that we lose many games. If they cannot, I cannot see any possible reason why Mazi Smith and/or Chris Hinton should not be playing because we need players in the middle of our line and at least it is the position they project to play, even if they are not as ready to play as the staff would like them to be at this point.
A note here. I think Wisconsin is actually really good this year. And while it does not excuse what I saw to be a truly piss pour effort on Saturday, I don't think this is a defense that is going to be regularly trounced if they can get a couple of competent bodies in the middle. Big "if" there though.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
Jeter played against Wiscy and was a non-factor.
He’s just average and is not a difference maker.
Don Brown left the guard uncovered when Wiscy was on the 1 yard line and had a 220 pound kid as 3T.
He’s been almost as clueless as the offensive coaches have been. They did do well against Army, but still the holes were there.
This is a team that will be lucky to win 7-8 games and this year 5. Unacceptable.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:07 AM ^
I am not really disagreeing with you. I just think there are only a couple of teams that the defense will be seriously outmatched against. Wisconsin, OSU, maybe Penn State. Now it is quite possible that the offense is literally going to suck so bad that it doesn't matter what the defense does. That is a distinct possibility.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:55 AM ^
I think it's more that we don't have the personnel this year. Losing Devin Bush was the biggest IMO he was really the heart of the defense. Also our D-line went from strength to weakness shockingly quickly.
Of course it's on Harbaugh/Brown that we don't have adequate replacements due to recruiting / transfers.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
Wouldn't Mattison have been responsible for recruiting DL? He was the line coach after all.
He hobbled us right before bolting to OSU.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:14 AM ^
DT recruiting has been absolutely dreadful. In 2019 we picked up two outstanding prospects, but there were three years before that where we just missed or had guys transfer away. It seems like we are in love with almost exclusively recruiting DEs and hoping we can bulk them up:
2019: Chris Hinton and Mazi Smith
2018: Nothing
2017: Aubrey Solomon (transfer), James Hudson (transfer), Phillip Paea (Is he injured? He missed all of last year), Donovan Jeter (converted DE)
2016: Rashan Gary (Played end. In NFL.), Carlo Kemp, Mike Dwumfour (injured forever)
That is DIRE.
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:38 AM ^
I think at some point they need to stop spending all their effort on the top flight guys who are going to go to Clemson/ AL/ GA in the end, and try to get the next tier guys who will be just fine. it was just a few years ago we had 8 rotating D lineman who were good! of course most of them came from Hoke. He definitely knew how to recruit O and D line.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:45 PM ^
Wow that is terrible. You really have to wonder about 2018. Even if Mattison was the lead recruiter for DL Harbaugh is the one looking at the big picture and needs to make sure that all the position groups have enough bodies.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
I'm wondering that as well. Losing Bush and Winovich as the anchors and passion of that defense, as well as the leadership of that defense- there is none there now. And if you look, the defensive guys are looking around at each other for that leadership. Someone needs to step up. And it's up to the coaches to put that in. Frustrated me to watch the rest of the games and at least see some passion from the teams that were even getting their asses kicked. Our guys just took it.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:56 AM ^
I was thinking the same thing. Our defense has always been solid, even in Harbaugh's first year when the offense was struggling, the defense carried us to some wins. Our defense now is starting to look like some of RichRods defenses.
September 23rd, 2019 at 9:59 AM ^
Our defense has not been solid against THEEEEE ohio, and on the road. We can dominate teams that we are supposed to beat, but we struggle with team that have talent that is close to us.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:03 AM ^
Mattison/Washington departures may have been bigger than we thought? I have no idea
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:07 AM ^
Good point.
September 23rd, 2019 at 12:28 PM ^
This is a good point. Have not seen much if any discussion here on the new kid on the block D line coach.
and Edit: Hoke's recruits were probably Mattison's.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
The defense (or at least aspects of it) have been figured out. Case in point is the motion Wisconsin ran on Saturday - they frequently motioned away from the play so the safeties would rotate; the safety rotating back to the deep middle would be running away from the play at the snap and would have to change momentum and come back to the line of scrimmage - not a way to win against Taylor or any Wisconsin RB of the last 25 years. I don't know that this approach was changed the entire game.
For Brown's D to work the way its supposed to, the D-Line has to be elite - we have had an elite (or very good) D-Line until the Indiana game last year. Since that game, this D has been torched by any team with decent offensive coaches.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
Wasn't Michigan's defense on the field for 23 minutes of the first 30 minutes? I don't care what defense you run. They were worn out.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:26 AM ^
I should have been more specific. 23 minutes of game clock time.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:43 AM ^
Wisconsin scored on their 1st and 3rd drive. Worn out is no excuse for giving up TDs on the 1st drive and long TD run on the 3rd drive. Michigan defense was bad, period.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:44 PM ^
3rd drive was Taylor's 70+ yard run td, correct? That was all on the d-line, over pursuing d-tackles, no d-ends keeping containment on the outside and the safety switching coverage pre-snap. But yes they can still be worn out by that 3rd drive, Wisconsin pounding the ball and their o-line destroying the front 7 of Michigan.
September 24th, 2019 at 9:53 PM ^
If they're worn out by 3rd drive then it's on the S&C for not getting them into shape.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:47 AM ^
They gave up 35 in the first half. If you are giving the reason for their lack of performance on that, then they are not in shape at all. First half had nothing to do with being tired. Has to do with execution and leadership on the field.
September 23rd, 2019 at 1:48 PM ^
Michigan's defense was on the field for an hour and 15 minutes of the first hour and a half of the game. Do you think that doesn't play a part in it?
September 23rd, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
At one point, just before Michigan scores it’s first TD, the time of possession was:
Wisconsin ~32 minutes, Michigan 8 minutes.
Hard to get the DL to push for that long without much depth.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
We were told guys like Kwity Paye, Kemp and Jeter were going to be difference makers...they are not! Just rotational pieces at best.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:43 AM ^
Michigan's ranked 47th in total defense right now. It's neighbors on the NCAA total defense rankings are Tennessee and Northwestern. Hurray!!!
https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/22
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:47 AM ^
Yikes.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^
Our last 3 games vs Power 5 teams we are giving up 46 ppg and 494 yard per game.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:53 AM ^
We simply don't have the talent or even bodies on the D Line this season. Seeing 4-3 personnel crammed into a 3-4 scheme and then asked to play 80 snaps each a game is sad. Kemp is doing his best, but he's over matched. Hutch and Paye are also more suited to the 4-3, and they're starting to wear down too. It's getting no easier from here on out, this unit cannot be expected to continue to play every snap in this scheme. All 3 spent too much time on their backs Saturday, imagine if one of them goes down.
And the back 7 is paying the price. Very few clean gaps to fill, there's always traffic for our LBs to maneuver or pulling guards and fullbacks. Ross is now hurt. And the secondary is having to play run support too much too. Metalus was limping, Hill was banged up against Army. This stuff takes its toll.
We need a blowout and to rest our defensive starters Saturday. IF they are playing in the 4th, it's going to be bad going forward. At this point I'm just waiting for the point when the D Line totally collapses and the defense offers little resistance the rest of the season.
September 23rd, 2019 at 10:53 AM ^
We don't currently have serviceable DTs, which will make any coach's scheme look bad. Against Wisconsin, it's a death sentence. With that said, the fact that we don't have any DTs is an indictment against the coaches. DL is the most important part of a defense. I really, really Hope Smith and Hinton grow into serviceable players by the end of the year.