Morgan Trent? From the Detroit News
• Morgan Trent, former U-M cornerback, played one year under Rodriguez: "I'm not surprised because I know what happened, and I know what kind of rules were broken. I couldn't see how they were going to get out of that.
"Whatever steps need to be taken (to restore Michigan's winning tradition), I'm all for it. What is happening right now obviously is not working. I don't know how long they're going to let this last until changes are made. This year is going to be the tell-all what's going to happen. We can't have three losing years in a row. Not at Michigan. To lose seven of last eight games (in 2009) is an embarrassment."
http://www.detnews.com/article/20100223/SPORTS0201/2230443/1361/Lloyd-C…
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:20 PM ^
I actually have no issue with what he said, he is entitled to his opinion as am I. Just because he may have given his heart does not mean that he was any good.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:26 PM ^
So what then, you just spontaneously write posts slamming former Michigan players?
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:27 PM ^
For God's sake, a) this statement is not true and b) you're just pissed because he's speaking out against the university you love.
News flash: RODRIGUEZ AND HIS STAFF are the ones in the wrong here.
Nobody's investigating Morgan Trent for taking improper benefits or flunking his classes.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:35 PM ^
But, seprately, it sure seems like he has not gotten a lot of support from the old guard.
And similar to asking people why they waited until after Trent's statement to criticize him, why did Morgan wait until after the NCAA allegations to criticize RR?
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:38 PM ^
Ummm...why would you want him to criticize Michigan prior to the allegations, i.e. when nothing was wrong? That's bad news all the way around. Not only does it bring negative attention to Michigan when the university doesn't deserve it, but it would make Morgan Trent look bad if it turned out they did nothing wrong.
I'd prefer that we have some solid information before former players start throwing around allegations and criticism.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:19 PM ^
But he was so positive of what he said....remember? He knew the rules that were being broken so him looking bad for being wrong shouldn't have crossed his mind. I am guessing he is one of the anonymous former players, why did he wait until today, after the presser, to come out publicly and say what he said?
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:03 PM ^
My only point with that 2nd sentence was, and I don't think I stated it clearly, is that it's inconsistent to call out a poster for using Trent's comments as a catalyst for criticism, while saying that it's OK for Trent to use the NCAA findings as a catalyst for criticism.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:06 PM ^
I'm still confused.
Trent was criticizing what the NCAA found. I mean, he also tossed in criticism of the coaching, but it's not like he was ONLY criticizing the on-field results. He said that he knew what rules were broken and didn't see how they would get out of it.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:27 PM ^
But, similarly, I could criticize Trent's judgment, and throw in a criticism about his poor play in 2008. And it wouldn't be like I was only criticizing his performance.
Separately, I'm coming from the perspective that mocking his play at M is bush-league, but his comments were bush-league also. And his original comments (August), IIRC, spoke only to the long Sunday practices, which he's right on, but not to the spring and summer things, which I think are the meat of the allegations. So I'm actually not sure that all the rules were broken that he thinks were broken. i.e. I don't think he was talking about stretching/QC involvement, but probably the other non-countable Sunday practice things like studying.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:48 PM ^
I'd like to talk with your buddy Morgan. I'll have a tape recorder with me. I'd like to ask him what rules he broke. "He," as in "we." As in "we broke rules."
Because what is generally outlined in today's NCAA Notice of Allegations doesn't have a whole hell of a lot to do with Morgan Trent.
Item 1: Quality Control Staff acted in coaching capacity, thereby exceeding allowable number of coaches.
Item 2: Staff attended voluntary workouts.
Item 3: Alex Herron told gave two different versions of his attendance at 7-on-7 drills.
Item 4: Rich Rodriguez "promot[ing] an atmospehere."
Item 5: Departmental CARA recording.
Nothing in there about Morgan Trent or anyone like him.
Braylon Edwards GOT HAMMERED FOR SAYING STUPID SHIT LIKE THIS.
MORGAN TRENT IS GONNA GET HAMMERED FOR SAYING STUPID SHIT LIKE THIS. Deservedly so. I won't even care too much about his eventual apology and clarification.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:50 PM ^
"MORGAN TRENT IS GONNA GET HAMMERED FOR SAYING STUPID SHIT LIKE THIS."
I bet you can't explain why this "SHIT" is "STUPID." Because it's not.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:27 PM ^
he sort of just did...
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:30 PM ^
Not really. He said it didn't have anything to do with Trent, which a) isn't true and b) is irrelevant.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:15 PM ^
Morgan Trent, former U-M cornerback, played one year under Rodriguez:
"I'm not surprised because I know what happened, and I know what kind of rules were broken." Really, Morgan? You knew that you practiced an extra 20 minutes one week? You knew that people were monitoring your class attendance when it wasn't allowed? You knew that the QC assistants shouldn't be watching your voluntary workouts? Why didn't you report it - or did it merely chafe you a little that you felt you - as a senior - had to show up for things like class and summer workouts?
"I couldn't see how they were going to get out of that." Get out of what, answering for the repressive regime they were building?
"Whatever steps need to be taken (to restore Michigan's winning tradition), I'm all for it." Do you mean like recruiting players who actually go to class - or who actually want to improve? Remember, Morgan, you were an upperclassman on a senior-laden team that lost to App State and got torched by Oregon - without Shafer as DC. How many of YOUR gold pants are tOSU players sporting these days?
"What is happening right now obviously is not working." Why would you say this, Morgan? Isn't this comment at least one, maybe two years early? Why are you pre-judging the situation, Morgan? The current staff is filling the holes left by the previous staff and clear progress was made in 2009 - despite starting a freshman QB for the second year in a row (at least this one wasn't a walk-on) and despite having a dearth of defensive backs (or did I miss the DB-stocked roster that Carr left?)
"I fully expect I don't know how long they're going to let this last until changes are made." What changes do you want - RR's job? That's preposterous. You should know as well as anyone, Morgan, this team hasn't had a consistent QB since 2006, a consistent CB since 2004, and a consistent safety since god-knows-when. How long should a coach get to build a program, Morgan? One year? One month? Ten minutes? Or as long as it takes so long as it doesn't cramp your style?
"This year is going to be the tell-all what's going to happen." No, it's not. RR's first full recruiting class will be RS Frosh and Sophs this year - 2010. That's all he gets? He has one year to recruit and they have to produce as Fresh and Sophs? Methinks YOU were given many more chances than that - and still didn't perform up to the level most of us expect.
"We can't have three losing years in a row. Not at Michigan." Where does this rank on the list of things we can't have, Morgan? Is it above or below, say, (a) losing to a 1AA team; (b) losing to a MAC team; (c) getting absolutely torched in your house by Illinois and Oregon; (d) spending 4 or 5 years in A2 without beating OSU; (e) etc. - and what was your contribution to this list of things we "can't have at Michigan".
"To lose seven of last eight games (in 2009) is an embarrassment." Sure it is, Morgan. But so are several of the things I listed just above - and you, LC, and Ron English played not-so-insignificant roles in those embarrassments. Your apparent inability to parse the details of the roster of your alma mater leads me to believe that you left A2 virtually unscathed by higher education.
After today's revelations, here's a hypothetical recruiting pitch: "Yes, sir, if your son comes to Michigan we will practice right up to the NCAA-mandated limit - and we might even go a little over the limit every once-in-awhile. We will make sure that your son is always supervised - on the field and in the classroom. If he's not in the classroom when he supposed to be there - there will be consequences. If he's working out informally with his teammates, we'll be sure someone in authority is watching."
As a university administrator or an NCAA regulator, that recruiting pitch would make my blood run cold. As a parent, I'd be begging to sign on the dotted line.
Trent's quotes scream of a player with an agenda - and maybe it's your agenda, too, Magnus. If I ever needed Exhibit A for the lackadaisical country club Carr was running in his last few years - Morgan Trent has provided Exhibit A.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:21 PM ^
"Why didn't you report it - or did it merely chafe you a little that you felt you - as a senior - had to show up for things like class and summer workouts?"
I don't know about you, but I live in a world where I don't expect college kids/players to report their coaches for violations. That's not for the kids to worry about. That's the job of coaches and administrators, who are actually PAID to do that.
Also, my agenda is not to rid ourselves of Rodriguez. I think that would be a bad idea for many reasons, and I have never suggested that he be fired anytime soon (and I post a lot).
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
....but I live in a world where I expect all students (including athletes) to go to all of their classes, and where I expect athletes (especially upperclassmen) to lead - not merely attend - "voluntary" workouts.
Whether or not there were (or were not) major or secondary violations of NCAA rules, my point is that these activities SHOULDN'T HAVE SEEMED like violations to the the student athletes involved. They should expect to work over 20hrs per week, they should expect to work over 10hrs per week in the summer, they should expect to go to every class, they should expect to have their workouts supervised. And they should do these things because they WANT TO do it, not because it is required.
Trent's statements are offensive because - in his own words - he KNEW there were "violations" and that someone (RR) would have to pay for it. The fact that Trent - as a student - considered these activities to be violations speaks to a clear lack of commitment to the program.
The very idea that RR requires a high degree of commitment to the program seems like a good thing to me and it seems like this was too much to ask of the Borens and Trents of the world. It's probably too bad that Trent's family didn't own a snow-plowing business.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:29 AM ^
We all know it is preposterous to turn in your coach for a violation. It is much more honorable to be an anonymous source, rip the college you played football and got you to where you are today, then, when the door is open to take more shots at the current coach, do so to the media instead of in private.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:34 AM ^
yes, please stop.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:27 PM ^
Is that all you ardent supporters of Rodriguez can spew? Look, man, the NCAA has found some wrongdoing, and Morgan Trent has spoken out about it in support of the alleged Michigan Way--which, as Michigan fans love to remind everyone--mean not being in this position in the first place.
Man, bitten on the arse once again by our own self-righteous indignation and delusionary false pride.
Hubris to the nth degree.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:06 AM ^
that someone capable of reading Marlowe would be capable of reading and comprehending that I was spewing much more about Trent than his agenda. So, to answer your question directly: No, we ardent supporters of RR can spew much more than the agenda pursued by the likes of Trent, Sharp, the Freep, and (perhaps) you. See immediately above for examples.
February 24th, 2010 at 2:43 AM ^
Wow magnus, you love yourself some magnus. I can't even read this shit because all it is is magnus, magnus, magnus. Get off your fucking high horse.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:17 PM ^
13, 14?
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:19 PM ^
*gets beat deep*
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:19 PM ^
I'm sure we did break some rules. I'm sure virtually every other program did as well. The annoying thing about this is that it gives people who are simply upset about the won-loss record (and Trent may be one, judging from that last line) cover to complain.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:41 PM ^
We have a winner.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:44 PM ^
I mean, Morgan Trent lived through the Scott Shafer debacle and the one-game switch to a 3-3-5... If ANYONE'S going to criticize, I would prefer that it's someone who actually was in the program, not some outsider douchebag like Drew Sharp or Jim Rome.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:14 PM ^
Well, if his beef was with Shafer, he wasn't exactly alone. But that's been rectified. Trent doesn't know what it's like to play under our current DC or cornerback coach.
But that's beside the point. I highly doubt that Trent is actually outraged over the rules violations. In fact, two years ago he was outspoken in his praise for our offseason conditioning program ("I can see my body changing!"). Now we have him playing the role of Capt. Renault. And that's what annoying. The rules violations are really not a big deal, but they give people who are upset about the won-loss record cover.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:17 PM ^
I mean, I wouldn't call it "cover." I'd say it adds to the mounting case against Rodriguez.
The Shafer case was rectified, I guess, but that doesn't negate the fact that it happened in the first place.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:30 PM ^
Yes, we replaced Shafer with a man of shining silver mane--and the defense promptly got far worse overnight.
February 24th, 2010 at 12:59 AM ^
I'm one of many, it seems. Speaking only for myself, I don't think that I have negged you once in this thread; at least, certainly not for your honestly-held opinion.
I negged you for the phrase "the mounting case against Rodriguez." Which is laughable bullshit.
"The mounting case"?
Does that mean that you think Demar Dorsey, or the "Katrina" comment, are part of that "mounting case"? What is the "mounting case"? I think it is death by a thousand paper cuts. Wherein the Free Press is of course the paper.
Is it the team's record? 2008 was a write-off, given what was there. Including the most disappointing senior of 2008, Morgan Trent. 2009 was a year where the team started 4-0 under difficult circumstances off the field, and went 5-7 with a freshman QB, a banged up OL, a string of banged up tailbacks and some gaping holes in the defense. Through it all, Rodriguez has continued to recruit up the level of Lloyd Carr in his prime, which is better than what old Lloyd Carr left to the incoming Rodriguez.
"The mounting case against Rodriguez"?
February 24th, 2010 at 1:05 AM ^
3-9
5-7
NCAA violations.
That's a mounting case. Maybe even a mountain of a case.
And Carr had at least one top-five recruiting class in his prime. I think more, but I'm too tired to check.
That is all.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:18 PM ^
When you have former players criticizing the current coach vis-a-vis performance (I have no problems with them criticizing rule-breaking and related matters), then it hurts the team. We don't need coaches to use Morgan Trent as part of a negative recruiting campaign. I don't mind him speaking out after Rodriguez is gone* about his coaching ability (although blaming the 2008 season on him is crossing the line, especially since he bears some responsibility as he was a member of the team), but he should keep his mouth shut until then.
*I don't mean to imply that this is imminent.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:22 PM ^
Again, Trent was fairly successful in the NFL as a rookie. I don't know how much you can blame him for the 2008 season when Shafer (both the DC *and* his position coach) was neutered mid-season and then promptly fired after the season.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:31 PM ^
When Michigan goes 3-9, I assign some responsibility to everyone involved, in the vein of the idea that when a team plays poorly, everyone on the team is responsible (both coaches and players). Morgan Trent does not deserve much blame compared to a lot of people, but as a member of the team, I find it uncouth to be speaking out against the coach.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:24 PM ^
How does Trent's play in the NFL impact his statements or his lack of success in NCAA? Plenty of NFL players didn't have the most solid college careers and vice versa. You're putting up too many comments and leaving logic behind Magnus.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:28 PM ^
You're right that plenty of NFL players didn't have the most solid college careers.
So how is it possible that a guy who plays in the NFL and does well against world-class talent could be subpar at a lower level?
Maybe it's because he *gasp* had subpar coaching!
So it's not a non sequitur. It's related, because I'm saying the blame for 2008 should probably be placed on the fired DC/cornerback coach, not the kids who were coached to play 10 yards off and jerked around with switching back and forth between a 4-3 and a 3-3-5 stack.
February 23rd, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
plus one to you. Well said.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:27 PM ^
"To lose seven of last eight games (in 2009) is an embarrassment."
You want to know what else is an embarrassment Morgan? A former player essentially calling for the coaches head. Running to a newspaper and giving them quotes like this won't make the situation better. True fans/former players need to support their program now more than ever.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:29 PM ^
That's weird. I didn't see him calling for the coach's head. I saw him saying that "things need to improve," which is what virtually every one of us on this board says.
How many of you would be okay with another 5-7 season?
*crickets*
That's what I thought.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:45 PM ^
Misplaced -- see below.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:35 PM ^
Supporting a program doesn't always mean supporting it's leaders. You can root for this country without supporting those in power.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:42 PM ^
Where did I say you always have to support our leaders?
My point is unless you believe RR should be fired for this violation, then you should support him in this case. Not always, just in this case.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:50 PM ^
That's true, you didn't say that. But your last sentence implies that supporting the program entails supporting Rodriguez. I think Trent would say the program is bigger than Rodriguez and he doesn't need to support him to support the program.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:43 PM ^
I believe what he is saying is that these comments do nothing but harm the program. If you support the program you would not make such comments against it.
While that maybe true, we need to start focusing on the reality of the situation. The fate of Rich Rod does not rest in the hands of the NCAA. It rests in his win loss record. A winning year next year and a bowl game will go a long way towards job security. Another losing season either gets him fired or in boiling hot water.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:52 PM ^
Right I agree that that's what he's saying. My point is that the program is bigger than Rodriguez and supporting the program doesn't entail supporting him.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:54 PM ^
I guess you missed my point or Im not making it clear. Saying what he said, when he said it does nothing but harm to the program as a whole. So in effect he is not supporting the program. Thats what I was getting at.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:58 PM ^
If he thinks Rodriguez having more breathing room is good for the program, then I agree. But what if he thinks what's best for the program is for Rodriguez to be fired and for us to bring in Harbaugh?
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:02 PM ^
"But what if he thinks what's best for the program is for Rodriguez to be fired and for us to bring in Harbaugh?"
Well then I would ask why? Then I would go into my tirade about how switching sytems now would do way more damage to the program and set it back another 3-4 years anyway. At this point, I would tell him we should see how 2010 comes out before we grab the pitchforks.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:03 PM ^
I would have no problem if Trent thought that bringing in Harbaugh is whats best for the program (even though I disagree). Where I take issue is that the comments he made imply that he wants RR gone because of this violation, which I think is ridiculous.
February 23rd, 2010 at 10:08 PM ^
Ah, understood.